Re: Broner/Perez, Alexander/Maidana unofficial thread

[Shaun]

A masterpiece from Alexander tonight. It definitely showed that he is a legit threat! However, it obviously didn't answer how Alexander will be able to handle a fast fighter like Peterson, Khan, or Bradley Jr. Although, I think if he fought Bradley Jr. again, he would do a lot better. Either way, Alexander did what he needed to do... perfectly. I got chills seeing that masterpiece being painted in the ring tonight.

As for Broner. He is Floyd Mayweather Jr. 2.0. It's time for him to step up in class and start facing real fighters. Even if that means moving up in weight.

Let's not get carried away.

Why are you hating on this man's masterpiece? He just beat the man that SHOULD HAVE defeated Khan if Cortez wasn't in the way. He just beat the man who defeated Victor Ortiz. He just beat the man who beat Erik Morales.

Most importantly, he did it EASILY.

[GrantZilla]

This is a masterpiece

[hardcorebee24]

A masterpiece from Alexander tonight. It definitely showed that he is a legit threat! However, it obviously didn't answer how Alexander will be able to handle a fast fighter like Peterson, Khan, or Bradley Jr. Although, I think if he fought Bradley Jr. again, he would do a lot better. Either way, Alexander did what he needed to do... perfectly. I got chills seeing that masterpiece being painted in the ring tonight.

As for Broner. He is Floyd Mayweather Jr. 2.0. It's time for him to step up in class and start facing real fighters. Even if that means moving up in weight.

Let's not get carried away.

Why are you hating on this man's masterpiece? He just beat the man that SHOULD HAVE defeated Khan if Cortez wasn't in the way. He just beat the man who defeated Victor Ortiz. He just beat the man who beat Erik Morales.

Most importantly, he did it EASILY.

They're both not very good. Maidana almost lost to way past it and old fighting way above his best Erik Morales and struggled big time with an old DeMarcus Corley. Suffice to say that Maidana is inconsistent and overrated. He lost to Kotelnik and fought a hard battle with Khan (I thought Khan won fair). The Victor Ortiz was a great exciting victory. The fight was far from a masterpiece. Alexander holds too much, is predictable, can be timed, gets hit too much, wastes energy and doesn't finish. His heart has also come into question and his ring IQ leaves a lot to be desired. In his defense he has probably the worst corner I've seen in a long time for a fighter at this level. Cunningham does not right wrongs and lacks the composure his fighter needs. Alexander should drop him and find someone that can teach him to avoid punches, conserve energy and finish a hurt opponent. Alexander has athletic potential and the amateur chops I just don't think he's elite. I also think that this fight was far from a masterpiece.

[Shaun]

A masterpiece from Alexander tonight. It definitely showed that he is a legit threat! However, it obviously didn't answer how Alexander will be able to handle a fast fighter like Peterson, Khan, or Bradley Jr. Although, I think if he fought Bradley Jr. again, he would do a lot better. Either way, Alexander did what he needed to do... perfectly. I got chills seeing that masterpiece being painted in the ring tonight.

As for Broner. He is Floyd Mayweather Jr. 2.0. It's time for him to step up in class and start facing real fighters. Even if that means moving up in weight.

Let's not get carried away.

Why are you hating on this man's masterpiece? He just beat the man that SHOULD HAVE defeated Khan if Cortez wasn't in the way. He just beat the man who defeated Victor Ortiz. He just beat the man who beat Erik Morales.

Most importantly, he did it EASILY.

They're both not very good. Maidana almost lost to way past it and old fighting way above his best Erik Morales and struggled big time with an old DeMarcus Corley. Suffice to say that Maidana is inconsistent and overrated. He lost to Kotelnik and fought a hard battle with Khan (I thought Khan won fair). The Victor Ortiz was a great exciting victory. The fight was far from a masterpiece. Alexander holds too much, is predictable, can be timed, gets hit too much, wastes energy and doesn't finish. His heart has also come into question and his ring IQ leaves a lot to be desired. In his defense he has probably the worst corner I've seen in a long time for a fighter at this level. Cunningham does not right wrongs and lacks the composure his fighter needs. Alexander should drop him and find someone that can teach him to avoid punches, conserve energy and finish a hurt opponent. Alexander has athletic potential and the amateur chops I just don't think he's elite. I also think that this fight was far from a masterpiece.

He won the fight 100-90.

[hardcorebee24]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes he did, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest as well. The aforementioned flaws are what made this unmasterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

[Shaun]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes it was, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest. The aforementioned flaws are what made this non masterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

[hardcorebee24]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes it was, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest. The aforementioned flaws are what made this non masterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

Who looked less than quality against an ancient Morales twenty lbs and ten years from his best and beaten by Kotelnik and looked average when he struggled with an old Corley in Argentina. You call this a masterpiece, I call this a quality victory against good top fifteen opponent. The flaws in the fight didn't give me chills and I see loads that Alexander needs to improve on before he can make a dent in the welterweight division.

[Shaun]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes it was, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest. The aforementioned flaws are what made this non masterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

Who looked less than quality against an ancient Morales twenty lbs and ten years from his best and beaten by Kotelnik and looked average when he struggled with an old Corley in Argentina. You call this a masterpiece, I call this a quality victory against good top fifteen opponent. The flaws in the fight didn't give me chills and I see loads that Alexander needs to improve on before he can make a dent in the welterweight division.

Top 15 opponent? Maidana was rated #4 going into this fight. He was behind Khan (who he really should have defeated), Bradley Jr, and Peterson.

[hardcorebee24]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes it was, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest. The aforementioned flaws are what made this non masterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

Who looked less than quality against an ancient Morales twenty lbs and ten years from his best and beaten by Kotelnik and looked average when he struggled with an old Corley in Argentina. You call this a masterpiece, I call this a quality victory against good top fifteen opponent. The flaws in the fight didn't give me chills and I see loads that Alexander needs to improve on before he can make a dent in the welterweight division.

Top 15 opponent? Maidana was rated #4 going into this fight. He was behind Khan (who he really should have defeated), Bradley Jr, and Peterson.

@ '47? @ '40?

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?sex=M&division=Light+Welterweight&pageID=1

Where is/was he ranked 4th coming in?

Alexander looked good/decent tonight against a fighter that didn't. It was a quality win.

Alexander SHOULD have lost to Mathysse and Kotelnik. Where would that put him if those fights were not gimme's?

[Shaun]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes it was, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest. The aforementioned flaws are what made this non masterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

Who looked less than quality against an ancient Morales twenty lbs and ten years from his best and beaten by Kotelnik and looked average when he struggled with an old Corley in Argentina. You call this a masterpiece, I call this a quality victory against good top fifteen opponent. The flaws in the fight didn't give me chills and I see loads that Alexander needs to improve on before he can make a dent in the welterweight division.

Top 15 opponent? Maidana was rated #4 going into this fight. He was behind Khan (who he really should have defeated), Bradley Jr, and Peterson.

@ '47? @ '40?

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?sex=M&division=Light+Welterweight&pageID=1

Where is/was he ranked 4th coming in?

Alexander looked good/decent tonight against a fighter that didn't. It was a quality win.

Alexander SHOULD have lost to Mathysse and Kotelnik. Where would that put him if those fights were not gimme's?

Lmao, yeah man, Maidana loses an EXTREMELY close fight to Khan (that he should have won) and hasn't lost a fight since and he's not in the top 10? Yet, Shane Mosley is listed at #10? Sounds like Ring forgot to put Maidana in their rankings.

Maidana was #4 on boxrec. They simply took him out of 140 rankings when he made the jump to 147.

[hardcorebee24]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes it was, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest. The aforementioned flaws are what made this non masterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

Who looked less than quality against an ancient Morales twenty lbs and ten years from his best and beaten by Kotelnik and looked average when he struggled with an old Corley in Argentina. You call this a masterpiece, I call this a quality victory against good top fifteen opponent. The flaws in the fight didn't give me chills and I see loads that Alexander needs to improve on before he can make a dent in the welterweight division.

Top 15 opponent? Maidana was rated #4 going into this fight. He was behind Khan (who he really should have defeated), Bradley Jr, and Peterson.

@ '47? @ '40?

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?sex=M&division=Light+Welterweight&pageID=1

Where is/was he ranked 4th coming in?

Alexander looked good/decent tonight against a fighter that didn't. It was a quality win.

Alexander SHOULD have lost to Mathysse and Kotelnik. Where would that put him if those fights were not gimme's?

Lmao, yeah man, Maidana loses an EXTREMELY close fight to Khan (that he should have won) and hasn't lost a fight since and he's not in the top 10? Yet, Shane Mosley is listed at #10? Sounds like Ring forgot to put Maidana in their rankings.

Maidana was #4 on boxrec. They simply took him out of 140 rankings when he made the jump to 147.

They have him as the #9 ranked Jr. Welter. Besides you CANNOT go by what they have as a ranking system. It's a computerized system that doesn't take into account the intangables that you mentioned in boxing. They have Shane as the fifth ranked Welter and Victor Ortiz behind Andre Berto, Shane Mosley and Mike Jones(Who's ranked fourth). I simply put the link there to find your reference as him being a fourth ranked fighter in any division.

[Shaun]

He won the fight 100-90.

Yes it was, but it wasn't like he toyed with his opponent. This was a ten round contest. The aforementioned flaws are what made this non masterful. He was cut and couldn't finish a hurt opponent. If you want to argue an Alexander masterpiece look to the Urango or Witter fights. Alexander looked better in both of those fights than he looked here.

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

Who looked less than quality against an ancient Morales twenty lbs and ten years from his best and beaten by Kotelnik and looked average when he struggled with an old Corley in Argentina. You call this a masterpiece, I call this a quality victory against good top fifteen opponent. The flaws in the fight didn't give me chills and I see loads that Alexander needs to improve on before he can make a dent in the welterweight division.

Top 15 opponent? Maidana was rated #4 going into this fight. He was behind Khan (who he really should have defeated), Bradley Jr, and Peterson.

@ '47? @ '40?

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight

http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?sex=M&division=Light+Welterweight&pageID=1

Where is/was he ranked 4th coming in?

Alexander looked good/decent tonight against a fighter that didn't. It was a quality win.

Alexander SHOULD have lost to Mathysse and Kotelnik. Where would that put him if those fights were not gimme's?

Lmao, yeah man, Maidana loses an EXTREMELY close fight to Khan (that he should have won) and hasn't lost a fight since and he's not in the top 10? Yet, Shane Mosley is listed at #10? Sounds like Ring forgot to put Maidana in their rankings.

Maidana was #4 on boxrec. They simply took him out of 140 rankings when he made the jump to 147.

They have him as the #9 ranked Jr. Welter. Besides you CANNOT go by what they have as a ranking system. It's a computerized system that doesn't take into account the intangables that you mentioned in boxing. They have Shane as the fifth ranked Welter and Victor Ortiz behind Andre Berto, Shane Mosley and Mike Jones(Who's ranked fourth). I simply put the link there to find your reference as him being a fourth ranked fighter in any division.

They have him at #9 AFTER LOSING. God damn man, I can't continue with you. You're a damn brick wall.

[hardcorebee24]

OK, I see that they already dropped him to ninth after this fight. You're right they had him at 4. You can't go by Boxrec though, it's a great statistical reference but as far as rankings they are way off.

[Shaun]

OK, I see that they already dropped him to ninth after this fight. You're right they had him at 4. You can't go by Boxrec though, it's a great statistical reference but as far as rankings they are way off.

Maidana was #4 on Ring as well until he made the jump to 147. Saying he's a top 15 opponent is what was off. He was a top 4 opponent.

[hardcorebee24]

They have him at #9 AFTER LOSING. God damn man, I can't continue with you. You're a damn brick wall.

You're wrong though. He's not ranked by any other publication. Look at the mess Boxrec has at welter right now. Go through the divisions. I'm not a brick wall, you never pose a good enough argument for me to change my opinion. Don't continue, I don't care,just don't come here and talk about masterpiece victories when it's not. It was a good win against a good opponent. Alexander has a lot to improve upon if he wants to compete with the tops in the division.

[hardcorebee24]

OK, I see that they already dropped him to ninth after this fight. You're right they had him at 4. You can't go by Boxrec though, it's a great statistical reference but as far as rankings they are way off.

Maidana was #4 on Ring as well until he made the jump to 147. Saying he's a top 15 opponent is what was off. He was a top 4 opponent.

Not at 147 lbs hes not. He looked like shit at the weight. Alexander has zero plans in moving down, this was a nice opponent to break yourself in at '47 but does this victory set him apart and make him a contender at '47?

[Shaun]

OK, I see that they already dropped him to ninth after this fight. You're right they had him at 4. You can't go by Boxrec though, it's a great statistical reference but as far as rankings they are way off.

Maidana was #4 on Ring as well until he made the jump to 147. Saying he's a top 15 opponent is what was off. He was a top 4 opponent.

Not at 147 lbs hes not. He looked like shit at the weight. Alexander has zero plans in moving down, this was a nice opponent to break yourself in at '47 but does this victory set him apart and make him a contender at '47?

This was a fight between a #4 rated 140 pounder and a top 10 140 pounder. Neither were even ranked at 147.

[hardcorebee24]

OK, I see that they already dropped him to ninth after this fight. You're right they had him at 4. You can't go by Boxrec though, it's a great statistical reference but as far as rankings they are way off.

Maidana was #4 on Ring as well until he made the jump to 147. Saying he's a top 15 opponent is what was off. He was a top 4 opponent.

Not at 147 lbs hes not. He looked like shit at the weight. Alexander has zero plans in moving down, this was a nice opponent to break yourself in at '47 but does this victory set him apart and make him a contender at '47?

This was a fight between a #4 rated 140 pounder and a top 10 140 pounder. Neither were even ranked at 147.

No it wasn't. It was a fight at welter where neither had been at. This was a fight between two unranked 147 lb fighters. That's why there is weight classes and why all publications dropped these two from their rankings. This was a barometer to see where each guy was at. Alexander claimed to have trouble making '40 and moved up to '47. He moved up and took on a guy that had never been at the weight and was unranked. He didn't do what Ortiz did and fight for a title against a top ranked opponent and then in his subsequent fight take on the best fighter in the world. My disagreement with you started in you saying that this was a masterpiece. I pointed out the chinks in Alexander's armor and you don't like it. He didn't beat a top pound for pound guy. He beat a guy that has some quality wins and has been competitive in losses in a lower weight class against good competition. This was not a masterpiece, it was a quality win over a good opponent in a foreign division.

[Soonermark890]

I really dont think Maidana is overrated. He is what he is. A huge puncher at 140 who's power might not carry to 147. Its pretty simple he is a top 10 type guy that has huge heart and gives you an exciting fight every time he gets in the ring. Thats why I love watching him. Ali likes to hate on him for whatever reason. He isnt any dirtier than most of the fighters Ali loves. Hell Haye is worse. I just think last night Alexander showed something I have not seen from him in years. I wonder if the extra weight helped that much. And if it did then there is a new player in the welterweight division.

[GrantZilla]

I really dont think Maidana is overrated. He is what he is. A huge puncher at 140 who's power might not carry to 147. Its pretty simple he is a top 10 type guy that has huge heart and gives you an exciting fight every time he gets in the ring. Thats why I love watching him. Ali likes to hate on him for whatever reason. He isnt any dirtier than most of the fighters Ali loves. Hell Haye is worse. I just think last night Alexander showed something I have not seen from him in years. I wonder if the extra weight helped that much. And if it did then there is a new player in the welterweight division.

I agree. Maidana did not look right at Welter and should stick to Jr Welter. And I agree with Hardcore that it was a good win for Alexander, but far from a masterpiece. To call it a masterpiece is setting the bar pretty low.

[Gumby]

Maidana is a much more quality of an opponent than Urango or Witter.

He really isn't. Neither in terms of skill or accomplishment. I like Maidana and think he's a good fighter, but a lot of guys get overrated because they're on tv more or beat a hyped fighter. When I say overrated I mean to say that most people rate Maidana above Witter and Urango. He's never won anything.

I do agree with you that Alexander performed well and will be a factor at 147 in the future. I like Grant's call with JT though. I think Devon will end up like that. There are a lot of guys who will be at 147 in the future who will give him trouble.

[Gumby]

I guess I'm the only one who thinks there is 2 Alexanders. The one who calms down a little bit and then starts sitting down on his punches because he gains confidence after a few rounds. Or the one that is being hit and boxed effectively and starts pulling back on his shots as a fight goes on.

I still think there is 2 of him. Lets see him sit be aggressive when he is being countered effectively.

Just like there is 2 Amir Kahns. The guy who is dominating by boxing and the guy that starts going from boxing to just moving alot when he gets hit alot.

Just like there is 2 Manny Pacquiaos. The guy who busts up most people but seems to struggle with technically sound boxers who can really counterpunch.

I see that. The difference is there's a good Amir Khan and a bad Amir Khan. A good Pacman and a bad Pacman. There is not good or bad Devon Alexander. Both of him have deficiencies. When he relaxes he leaves himself more open and gets careless defensively. He wastes energy bouncing around. When he pulls back he protects himself better and is a little bit more precise. That's why I think it will be harder for him. IMO he's going to have to mix and match to reach his potential. That's not easy to do. Last night was a good confidence builder though. He needed that.

[captainanddew]

Pac and Floyd are the truly elite guys at 147. After that is a bunch of good fighters who could beat certain guys and lose to others:
Ortiz-lost to Maidana and drew with Peterson at 140, beat Berto at 147
Berto-lost his biggest fight to Ortiz but it was a barnburner; did beat Zaveck
Mike Jones-hasn't faced a top guy yet
Brook-hasn't faced a top guy yet
Alexander-beat Maidana at 147 which isn't a huge accomplishment, lost to Bradley at 140, beat Kotelnik and Matthyse at 140
Bradley-done nothing at 147, did acquit himself very well at 140 in beating top comp in Alexander, Peterson, etc.
Senchenko-haven't seen enough of him. We will get to see how he does against Paulie M. If he is going to be a player in the division he should beat Paulie convincingly
Zaveck-only have seen him against Berto, don't know much about him
Ayudin-I haven't seen him
Khan (assuming he moves up)-loss to Peterson but got by Maidana; chin would worry me at 147, and does he have enough power?
Peterson (assuming he moves up)-loss to Bradley, draw with Ortiz, win over Khan. Even the Bradley fight he was losing rounds but they were competitive rounds. Bradley was just better in most of the rounds.

These guys are alll question marks. Guys with flaws, guys we haven't seen enough of, guys that haven't stepped up to top competition.

Should be a fun 3-4 years.

[Gumby]

Pac and Floyd are the truly elite guys at 147. After that is a bunch of good fighters who could beat certain guys and lose to others:
Ortiz-lost to Maidana and drew with Peterson at 140, beat Berto at 147
Berto-lost his biggest fight to Ortiz but it was a barnburner; did beat Zaveck
Mike Jones-hasn't faced a top guy yet
Brook-hasn't faced a top guy yet
Alexander-beat Maidana at 147 which isn't a huge accomplishment, lost to Bradley at 140, beat Kotelnik and Matthyse at 140
Bradley-done nothing at 147, did acquit himself very well at 140 in beating top comp in Alexander, Peterson, etc.
Senchenko-haven't seen enough of him. We will get to see how he does against Paulie M. If he is going to be a player in the division he should beat Paulie convincingly
Zaveck-only have seen him against Berto, don't know much about him
Ayudin-I haven't seen him
Khan (assuming he moves up)-loss to Peterson but got by Maidana; chin would worry me at 147, and does he have enough power?
Peterson (assuming he moves up)-loss to Bradley, draw with Ortiz, win over Khan. Even the Bradley fight he was losing rounds but they were competitive rounds. Bradley was just better in most of the rounds.

These guys are alll question marks. Guys with flaws, guys we haven't seen enough of, guys that haven't stepped up to top competition.

Should be a fun 3-4 years.

Add in the x-factors and young guys: Dulorme, Bailey, Benavidez, Jessie Vargas, Sadam Ali, Danny Garcia, Brad Solomon, Joel Julio, Wale Omotoso, Shawn Porter, etc. Not to mention that Floyd and Manny can stay for a few more years if they want.

[GrantZilla]

Merchant Still Not Convinced Alexander is an Elite Fighter

And while Alexander has breathed new life into his career, not everyone is sold.

Veteran HBO analyst Larry Merchant wasn’t at the Scottrade Center calling the action last night, as it was a Boxing After Dark telecast, but when asked for his impression of Alexander’s victory, he hardly seemed smitten.

“It’s hard to say because Maidana was also moving to 147,” Merchant noted during our conversation moments after the bout’s conclusion. “And it may simply be a matter of a good style and fighting a disciplined, tough fight.”

Noticing a bit of skepticism coming from Merchant, I asked if he would elaborate.

“I mean, I don’t think this victory makes him an elite fighter,” Larry continued. “I think that he’s a young guy and he needs more fights before we can tell. It’s a good performance; I don’t want to take anything away from it. We’ll see, if he fights somebody with a little more skill, how he performs. I don’t think he’s an elite fighter at this time. But it was a victory and he’s still in the hunt for bigger game.”

And what for Maidana, who again showed his limitations yet will still be able to land meaningful fights given his all-action style? The 28-year old was also moving up to the welterweight class to land the fight yet he didn’t seem to carry his power up quite as well nor was he able to impose himself physically as was the case with his melees at 140.

Merchant feels that life will move on and the WBA bauble Maidana holds in the junior welterweight class seems to be reason enough for a return back to his natural division.

“In a sense, but at 140, fighting smaller guys, [with] his strength, he may be able to impose his will on smaller guys because of his strength and his will. I think he fought [Victor] Ortiz at 140 and Ortiz has moved up, so he’s got to go where the opponents and the money is. There’s always more fights for somebody like Maidana, but I’m not sure that it’s best for him to move up in weight.”

http://tinyurl.com/7mz9wdt

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