Tim Bradley, the man who should be champ?

Okay let's break down all their fights as champion. As for Alexander's body of work all I'll say is that I hate when an a guy is discredited after the fact. Devon was always fighting and taking on challenging but beatable competition throughout his rise.

Alexander v. Witter and Khan v. Kotelnik - Alexander had the more impressive win. He beat the more recognized fighter in a more convincing fashion.

Alexander v. Urango and Khan v. Salita - Alexander had the more impressive win. He dominated another recognized champion. Khan was impressive in blowing out an undefeated fighter, but Alexander stopped a guy with a notoriously strong chin.

Alexander v. Kotelnik and Khan v. Malignaggi - Khan had the more impressive win. He outclassed a known technical boxer on a big stage. Alexander struggled against a guy Khan had easily outboxed.

At this point, people were leaning towards Khan because he had fought better more recently, but Alexander's body of work was more impressive.

Then Khan beat Maidana and got the bump. I don't think that fight should have affected the rankings so soon because Alexander was already scheduled to fight Bradley before the fight. They were the #1 and #2 on the day they signed. Both were guys who took on challenges while Khan still had the rep of taking soft touches after Prescott (the Malignaggi fight was the pinnacle of the I'm not going to fight my mandatory and instead face one of the weakest punchers in the division).

Also, Khan did not look good against Maidana. He showed a lot of heart and showed his chin wasn't paper thin but he was only impressive for 2 rounds. I think people got caught up in how great the fight was and overlooked how hard it was for Khan.

The Khan beat Kotelnik easy and Alexander didn't isn't a strong argument. Styles make fights. Kotelnik beat Maidana more convincingly than Khan and we know he's not better than Khan. Alexander dominated against a Maidana type fighter in Urango. The biggest difference between Maidana and Urango is that Maidana upset an over-hyped prospect in Victor Ortiz so he got more hyped himself.

dmar5143 wrote:frank im in complete agreement especialy when the flimsy excuse of styles cause butts lol..hmmm in every fight there in interesting.ive said in the past that some use it as a rehearsed punch or third glove..these 2 examples you gave are perfect examples.

That's the one thing I feel gets overlooked in the Bradley-Alexander fight. Bradley butted him several times opening or at the very least widening cuts above the eyes. Bradley was not deducted a single point. If even one point is deducted, Devon could've swept the last 3 rounds and won. Devon looked faster all night but Tim pressured and he quit. I will be interested what Roach and Khan say if that fight goes down. I predict it does not.

Fact is Bradley if he got The Ring belt or not would not be considered The Champ without fighting Khan.

The Ring made the right decision, and there is no denying the winner of Bradley-Khan would be The Champ

GrantZilla wrote:Fact is Bradley if he got The Ring belt or not would not be considered The Champ without fighting Khan.

The Ring made the right decision, and there is no denying the winner of Bradley-Khan would be The Champ

absolutely

UBeeg9cats wrote:

dbudge wrote:
entire career against who though??? the fucking local postman in St Louis????

Khan's wins against top ranked guys have been far better than Alexander's. Alexander got a massive slice of home cooking against Kotelnik, yeh he beat Urango who has beaten who exactly?? and he beat Junior "the quitter" Witter, who made a career out of calling Ricky Hatton out when in reality he was a load of shit. Chop Chop Corley?? the same Chop Chop who got KTFO by Tszyu in 2 rounds 6 years before! Maidana would beat the fuck out of Alexander, Khan got the win. Kotelnik beat Alexander whether you want to admit that or not, Khan took Kotelnik to school. Malignaggi was ranked number 5 and was far more established at 140lb than Junior Witter or Kotelnik and Khan was phenomenal against him. Malignaggi is a tough dude, despite looking like a queen, and Khan stopped him more convincingly than anybody else has and Malignaggi couldn't complain about that like he could against Hatton. Khan's performance against Bradley is guaranteed to be far more impressive than Alexander's ever will be. i think Alexander has one tough night ahead of him against Matthysse. we'll see whether Ring have got it right then. but until Bradley beats Khan, he is not the man at 140lb simple as. he's already a champ if that's the credit you want to give him. he's not the undisputed champ though because Khan is out there and at 140lb Khan is as unbeaten as Bradley is. Khan's first fight at 140lb was against Kotelnik, that's highly impressive in itself and shows what talent Khan really has. anyway, you won't agree because you're supporting your hometwon fighter, and that's cool

Isn't the bold applicable to Devon vs Kotelnik? I realize you think I'm supporting my hometown and I am to a certain extent but you are wildly exaggerating Khan's resume too. Kotelnik was the same fighter for both. Maidana has the victory against Victor Ortiz and that's it. He looked confused against Morales, a man once beaten by David Diaz into a temporary retirement. Any way you look at it Maidana and Urango are both crude but solid fighters with virtually no boxing skill. Paulie and Witter are both former trinket holders that had seen better days. That leaves Salita vs Chop Chop. Salita was stepping up while Chop Chop was a wily veteran. Khan whupped Kotelnik but survived his brute fight while Devon whupped his brute and survived his fight with Kotelnik. Khan is clearly the better fighter but that is on STYLE POINTS ALONE.

not really because the all Maidana did in that fight was have a great 10th round. for the rest of the fight he was comprehensively outboxed by Amir Khan. Khan had Maidana down in the first round and landed almost at will throughout the fight. there was no disputing who the winner of that contest was.

Kotelnik vs Alexander had the whole boxing world shouting robbery. Alexander was outboxed the whole fight and did nothing but hit arms and shoulders and eat counters. it was a fucking robbery

as for Gumby's comment about Witter being more established at 140lb, Witter has always been an overrated piece of shit fighter. he literally made his career from caliing out Ricky Hatton as if he was on the same level. if Hatton and Witter had fought then Witter wouldn't have got to the 9th round either. and that was when Witter was in his prime. Witter recently got beaten by a journeyman in Canada. Alexander's most impressive victory was vs Urango, and Urango has never beaten anybody worth noting.

Bradley vs Khan will establish who is the man at 140lb, Alexander had his shot to make that statement and he more then failed that test. i can't see how anybody can make an argumnet that Khan vs Bradley would NOT be for the legitimate 140lb Championship

dbudge wrote:

UBeeg9cats wrote:

dbudge wrote:
entire career against who though??? the fucking local postman in St Louis????

Khan's wins against top ranked guys have been far better than Alexander's. Alexander got a massive slice of home cooking against Kotelnik, yeh he beat Urango who has beaten who exactly?? and he beat Junior "the quitter" Witter, who made a career out of calling Ricky Hatton out when in reality he was a load of shit. Chop Chop Corley?? the same Chop Chop who got KTFO by Tszyu in 2 rounds 6 years before! Maidana would beat the fuck out of Alexander, Khan got the win. Kotelnik beat Alexander whether you want to admit that or not, Khan took Kotelnik to school. Malignaggi was ranked number 5 and was far more established at 140lb than Junior Witter or Kotelnik and Khan was phenomenal against him. Malignaggi is a tough dude, despite looking like a queen, and Khan stopped him more convincingly than anybody else has and Malignaggi couldn't complain about that like he could against Hatton. Khan's performance against Bradley is guaranteed to be far more impressive than Alexander's ever will be. i think Alexander has one tough night ahead of him against Matthysse. we'll see whether Ring have got it right then. but until Bradley beats Khan, he is not the man at 140lb simple as. he's already a champ if that's the credit you want to give him. he's not the undisputed champ though because Khan is out there and at 140lb Khan is as unbeaten as Bradley is. Khan's first fight at 140lb was against Kotelnik, that's highly impressive in itself and shows what talent Khan really has. anyway, you won't agree because you're supporting your hometwon fighter, and that's cool

Isn't the bold applicable to Devon vs Kotelnik? I realize you think I'm supporting my hometown and I am to a certain extent but you are wildly exaggerating Khan's resume too. Kotelnik was the same fighter for both. Maidana has the victory against Victor Ortiz and that's it. He looked confused against Morales, a man once beaten by David Diaz into a temporary retirement. Any way you look at it Maidana and Urango are both crude but solid fighters with virtually no boxing skill. Paulie and Witter are both former trinket holders that had seen better days. That leaves Salita vs Chop Chop. Salita was stepping up while Chop Chop was a wily veteran. Khan whupped Kotelnik but survived his brute fight while Devon whupped his brute and survived his fight with Kotelnik. Khan is clearly the better fighter but that is on STYLE POINTS ALONE.

not really because the all Maidana did in that fight was have a great 10th round. for the rest of the fight he was comprehensively outboxed by Amir Khan. Khan had Maidana down in the first round and landed almost at will throughout the fight. there was no disputing who the winner of that contest was.

Kotelnik vs Alexander had the whole boxing world shouting robbery. Alexander was outboxed the whole fight and did nothing but hit arms and shoulders and eat counters. it was a fucking robbery

as for Gumby's comment about Witter being more established at 140lb, Witter has always been an overrated piece of shit fighter. he literally made his career from caliing out Ricky Hatton as if he was on the same level. if Hatton and Witter had fought then Witter wouldn't have got to the 9th round either. and that was when Witter was in his prime. Witter recently got beaten by a journeyman in Canada. Alexander's most impressive victory was vs Urango, and Urango has never beaten anybody worth noting.

Bradley vs Khan will establish who is the man at 140lb, Alexander had his shot to make that statement and he more then failed that test. i can't see how anybody can make an argumnet that Khan vs Bradley would NOT be for the legitimate 140lb Championship

We are just going over the same material but I will say it one more time. Maidana is nothing special either. The Maidana-Khan fight had Maidana winning 5 rounds, justifiably so, on 2 judges score cards. He won 6 on the other's. If he hadn't got a cheap point taken away, its a MD for Khan. There is less evidence that "all Maidana did in that fight was have a great 10th round" than Kotelnik beating Alexander. Devon landed more power shots and remained busier overall. He fought with a cut. I watched it live and scored it for Kotelnik but I thought it was close.

Urango has Ngoudjo and Bailey on his resume. Ngoudjo fought Paulie much closer than he fought Juan. Bailey is a solid win too. I give Urango the edge over Maidana for resume and in general.
So the resume arguement remains Kotelnik=Kotelnik with Khan's win way more impressive, Maidana=Urango with Devon's win way more impressive, Witter barely < Paulie but Devon got the TKO so even. That means Salita is your deciding factor of making resumes not even remotely close. I literally laugh out loud at that.

Also, EVERYONE agrees Khan vs Bradley would be for the legit championship but myself, Gumby, Sooner, and some others believe that Bradley vs Alexander should've been for it and the Khan-Bradley fight would be a defense instead of a vacancy filling fight.

I'm not trying to tick anyone off, just expressing my opinion. I know we disagree and I respect your view. My view (in short as I don't have time to go through the minutae while at work)Alexander should have lost to Kotelnik, while Khan beat him very clearly. Khan is ever so slightly ahead of Alexander in my view prior to Alexander facing Bradley. Just a viewpoint, don't flame me for trying to express it.

captainanddew wrote:
I'm not trying to tick anyone off, just expressing my opinion. I know we disagree and I respect your view. My view (in short as I don't have time to go through the minutae while at work)Alexander should have lost to Kotelnik, while Khan beat him very clearly. Khan is ever so slightly ahead of Alexander in my view prior to Alexander facing Bradley. Just a viewpoint, don't flame me for trying to express it.

Hopefully, dbudge and everyone else knows I'm not trying to flame them. I come on here to learn about boxing and for some friendly debate. Sure it gets a little heated every once in awhile but I feel most people are good-natured about it.

I actually agree with you on both Kotelnik fights. I can also easily see your case for Khan over Devon even prior to the Bradley fight. My perspective was Devon was number 2 for a reason and shouldn't have been demoted because of a very, very close fight. I see Devon ranked 2 and Amir ranked 3 then Devon struggles against a boxer with very good amateur experience and a former titlist. Then Amir struggles with a slugger who has never done anything besides make a quitter quit and Amir gets rewarded. I thought at the very least the difference between 2 and 3 was negligible and a Tim(1) vs Devon(3) should be accepted to fill a vacancy. Ring magazine, dbudge, grant and many others agree with you. Gumby, myself, Sooner, and some others have a differing opinion.

Besides its just fun to talk about the sport, I don't know any other boxing fans in real life.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

captainanddew wrote:
I'm not trying to tick anyone off, just expressing my opinion. I know we disagree and I respect your view. My view (in short as I don't have time to go through the minutae while at work)Alexander should have lost to Kotelnik, while Khan beat him very clearly. Khan is ever so slightly ahead of Alexander in my view prior to Alexander facing Bradley. Just a viewpoint, don't flame me for trying to express it.

Hopefully, dbudge and everyone else knows I'm not trying to flame them. I come on here to learn about boxing and for some friendly debate. Sure it gets a little heated every once in awhile but I feel most people are good-natured about it.

I actually agree with you on both Kotelnik fights. I can also easily see your case for Khan over Devon even prior to the Bradley fight. My perspective was Devon was number 2 for a reason and shouldn't have been demoted because of a very, very close fight. I see Devon ranked 2 and Amir ranked 3 then Devon struggles against a boxer with very good amateur experience and a former titlist. Then Amir struggles with a slugger who has never done anything besides make a quitter quit and Amir gets rewarded. I thought at the very least the difference between 2 and 3 was negligible and a Tim(1) vs Devon(3) should be accepted to fill a vacancy. Ring magazine, dbudge, grant and many others agree with you. Gumby, myself, Sooner, and some others have a differing opinion.

Besides its just fun to talk about the sport, I don't know any other boxing fans in real life.

[b]

same here. My friends are sports fans but not boxing fans.

ring magazine said it almost so called changed there policy for that one fight.bradley 1 devon 3 when they fought..i also would of accepted the winner of that fight as champ and maybe ring should have also since when they signed for the fight it was number 1 vs number 2 and when they did signed ring should of announced its for the vacant ring title.thats there poilcy.1 signed to fight 2 and the day they signed ring should of said yep its for our belt expecialy since there was no fight for either one of them to lose before that fight and change there rankings.so in the future i hope they learned from that mistake...the bradley-kahn fight IF its signed will be for the title maybe depending how kahn does saturday.the vacancy could of been avoided.
same now in the 118 touney.number 3 fighting number 4the winner should move up to number 2 especialy since rings number 2 guy dont deserve number 2 and hes inactive against top fighters.then donaire vs winner is for the vacant title.

I think the reason The Ring panel voted against Bradley-Khan being for the belt is it would not clearly estabalish an undisputed/new linear Champ. You'd have just as many Khan fans and people who beleive there can't be a new Champ crowned without Khan being involved.

We can argue on and on if Alexander deserved to be ranked above Khan. Both sides have their points.