Tim Bradley, the man who should be champ?

Having had time to reflect on Maidana-Morales, I have thought back to a debate I had in January and December. Amir Khan, fresh off a deserved but difficult win over the unstoppable force known as Maidana, was bumped over Devon Alexander. This action left the question of filling the Ring vacancy up to the committee who voted against awarding Bradley-Alexander. Since I'm a St. Louis boy, I debated with some on here that Devon was unfairly moved down. I felt Maidana was almost identical to Urango except Urango had at least won a trinket that the sanctioning bodies practically give away while Maidana had not. This meant Devon dominated an opponent similar to one that tested Amir and Amir dominated the very opponent that tested Devon. I did not see any reason that Devon could be any worse than 2a. I thought the top 3 were clearly the class of the division and really any 2 of them fighting should fill the vacancy. It did not happen.

Maidana is not the beast we all thought he was. This makes me truly sad Tim isn't champ especially with whispers Khan-Bradley will not happen due to money. What say you?

WTF you talking about man? Kotelnik did not "test" Alexander. He beat him. Alexander got a home cooking gift decision over an opponent Khan dominated. That is why Alexander lost his spot.

And if you want to go all hypothetical, the Alexander that showed up for the Bradley fight would have gotten his ass spanked by Maidana. He is no Morales.

The Ring made the right decision. Khan is better then Alexander. Add on, I'm glad that terrible fight wasn't for The Ring belt.

GrantZilla wrote:WTF you talking about man? Kotelnik did not "test" Alexander. He beat him. Alexander got a home cooking gift decision over an opponent Khan dominated. That is why Alexander lost his spot.

And if you want to go all hypothetical, the Alexander that showed up for the Bradley fight would have gotten his ass spanked by Maidana. He is no Morales.

The Ring made the right decision. Khan is better then Alexander. Add on, I'm glad that terrible fight wasn't for The Ring belt.

I have a hard time believing Alexander won. I felt he lost live and when i watched it again about a week later. Kotelnik won the fight.

GrantZilla wrote:WTF you talking about man? Kotelnik did not "test" Alexander. He beat him. Alexander got a home cooking gift decision over an opponent Khan dominated. That is why Alexander lost his spot.

And if you want to go all hypothetical, the Alexander that showed up for the Bradley fight would have gotten his ass spanked by Maidana. He is no Morales.

The Ring made the right decision. Khan is better then Alexander. Add on, I'm glad that terrible fight wasn't for The Ring belt.

Easy there Zilla. You don't need to jump down people's throat to respond to a statement you disagree with. I was there too and it was a close fight. Devon was ineffective but did outland Kotelnik. Several ringside observers had Alexander winning the fight.
There is NO WAY Maidana dominates Alexander. Did you see what Devon did to an eerily similar Urango? He knocked him out. Lastly, a championship filling fight is between 2 top contenders regardless if it turns out to be a good fight.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

GrantZilla wrote:WTF you talking about man? Kotelnik did not "test" Alexander. He beat him. Alexander got a home cooking gift decision over an opponent Khan dominated. That is why Alexander lost his spot.

And if you want to go all hypothetical, the Alexander that showed up for the Bradley fight would have gotten his ass spanked by Maidana. He is no Morales.

The Ring made the right decision. Khan is better then Alexander. Add on, I'm glad that terrible fight wasn't for The Ring belt.

Easy there Zilla. You don't need to jump down people's throat to respond to a statement you disagree with. I was there too and it was a close fight. Devon was ineffective but did outland Kotelnik. Several ringside observers had Alexander winning the fight.
There is NO WAY Maidana dominates Alexander. Did you see what Devon did to an eerily similar Urango? He knocked him out. Lastly, a championship filling fight is between 2 top contenders regardless if it turns out to be a good fight.

I personally fill if Alexander didnt go back to the drawing board and fix some things Maidana would crush him if they met. He would have to fight perfect and I still think Maidana is the beast we think he is. Morales is just a tough old warrior thats all that was Sat. I also think Maidana didnt train hard he was gassed early in that fight. I really want to see Maidana vs Morales again and then him go after Alexander.

alexander quit and thats reason enough to move down and kahn under far more adversity did not quit.devon at number 3 or 4 iis fair for him..he can overcome if he gets a little more heart to go along with his bravado..im in the minority here but maidana isnt a beast.nor is his chin granite like other great chins..hes a good puncher that is slow with combos easy to hit ..he has heart and courage some talent but not a beast if you look at pryor duran even ray mancini.there just examples of fighters who offensively had more fluidity and approaced you with a more destructive force and were not staggered a half dozen times by a aging legend nor decked several times in a fight in there absolute prime which maidana is right now at..hes a fighter all of us like to watch because theres action.the 2 brocton boys hagler and rocky were beasts.cerdan of yesteryear hell even a saddler or robinson were just a different style of beast.
kahn bradley alexander maidana jab etc etc yes a very talented division but to me none stand out that will approach greatness.or near greatness..nor beasthood.

morales i dont define as a beast but do as the ultimate warrior type of fighter who tested himself time and time again..it takes talent along with grit to do that..maidana has the grit.he falls short overall in the talent department.

dmar5143 wrote:alexander quit and thats reason enough to move down and kahn under far more adversity did not quit.devon at number 3 or 4 iis fair for him..he can overcome if he gets a little more heart to go along with his bravado..im in the minority here but maidana isnt a beast.nor is his chin granite like other great chins..hes a good puncher that is slow with combos easy to hit ..he has heart and courage some talent but not a beast if you look at pryor duran even ray mancini.there just examples of fighters who offensively had more fluidity and approaced you with a more destructive force and were not staggered a half dozen times by a aging legend nor decked several times in a fight in there absolute prime which maidana is right now at..hes a fighter all of us like to watch because theres action.the 2 brocton boys hagler and rocky were beasts.cerdan of yesteryear hell even a saddler or robinson were just a different style of beast.
kahn bradley alexander maidana jab etc etc yes a very talented division but to me none stand out that will approach greatness.or near greatness..nor beasthood.

See I'm in agreement with this about Maidana. When Chop Chop gives you trouble, you might need to reevaluate some things. Anyways, the only thing I can say about Alexander is he quit in the Bradley fight AFTER he was already moved down. It really makes me feel Bradley is the uncrowned champ but seems like I'm the only one

Sorry UBeeg9cats, just seemed like you were doing some revisionist history is all. I had Alexander losing that fight. And even for the sake of arument he barely got the win, Khan dominates him.

You can't say that Maidana is the same as Urango, and use it as some justification for Alexander. That is pure hypothetical at best. Over a common opponent, Khan did better. That is a fact.

I don't think Maidana is a beast, but against weak willed guys , he'll win out. Ortiz for example. Why I said, the Alexander that fought Bradley would also lose to Maidana

I want to add that the reason The Ring policy works for crowning a new Champ is because it leaves no doubt that person is the real champ.

If Bradley got the belt, there'd be just as many Khan fans and people, such as myself, that would feel Bradley had to fight Khan to prove he's realy the best in the division.

If Bradley-Khan happens, there will be no disputing the winner is the best and the new Champ

Khan is better than Alexander. Khan's body of work at 140lb is greater than Alexander's. Alexander has the chance to redeem himself, but Khan is just way better.

any ranking system is based on opinions. The Ring have the most respected opinion in the industry, that doesn't necessarily mean that everybody agrees with that. in this case i do. when they put Bute number 1 for beating a number 4 Andrade after Ward had just dominated a number 1 ranked Mikkel Kessler, i didn't agree. i think that they have since rectified that error. i can see your beef but i don't see what Alexander has done better than Khan at 140lb to have been ranked above him before he fought Bradley. his performance against Bradley justified that decision

dbudge wrote:Khan is better than Alexander. Khan's body of work at 140lb is greater than Alexander's. Alexander has the chance to redeem himself, but Khan is just way better.

i can see your beef but i don't see what Alexander has done better than Khan at 140lb to have been ranked above him before he fought Bradley. his performance against Bradley justified that decision

Alexander's fought the majority of his career at 140. His body of work is much longer than Khan's. The way he won the title and the way he defended it was more impressive than Khan before the Kotelnik fight. I thought Bradley-Alexander should've been for the Ring belt. It wasn't because Alexander looked bad against Kotelnik right after Khan looked sensational against Malignaggi. Then Khan got the bump for beating Maidana even though Alexander was scheduled to fight Bradley and Khan didn't look impressive. It seemed too fast for me and I feel like it was done to build a Bradley/Alexander v. Khan fight.

Gumby wrote:

dbudge wrote:Khan is better than Alexander. Khan's body of work at 140lb is greater than Alexander's. Alexander has the chance to redeem himself, but Khan is just way better.

i can see your beef but i don't see what Alexander has done better than Khan at 140lb to have been ranked above him before he fought Bradley. his performance against Bradley justified that decision

Alexander's fought the majority of his career at 140. His body of work is much longer than Khan's. The way he won the title and the way he defended it was more impressive than Khan before the Kotelnik fight. I thought Bradley-Alexander should've been for the Ring belt. It wasn't because Alexander looked bad against Kotelnik right after Khan looked sensational against Malignaggi. Then Khan got the bump for beating Maidana even though Alexander was scheduled to fight Bradley and Khan didn't look impressive. It seemed too fast for me and I feel like it was done to build a Bradley/Alexander v. Khan fight.

i disagree. i don't see that Bradley or Alexander could have truly been recognised as the undisputed and lineal champion of 140lb without fighting Khan. Alexander KO'd Urango, so fucking what the referee could have let Juan continue and you're all talking like Urango was a monster... he really wasn't. Kotelnik got robbed against Alexander and Khan absolutely schooled Alexander. Malignaggi was ranked number 4/5 at the time that Khan ripped him a new asshole. Malignaggi has been beat before, but never that convincingly. then Khan beat the number 4 ranked Maidana, and Khan did look impressive in that fight. he took hellacious shots, proved his resilience, and won that fight fair and square. Alexander's one decent win over Urango doesn't beat Khan's body of work at 140lb IMO. Khan would have beaten Urango up as well. Khan deserved his number 2 over Alexander. Bradley vs Khan is the fight that will really determine who is the man at 140lb and i think that the Ring were right to make that decision

After the Bradley fight, I feel like Khan would destroy Devon but I was just making the case for Tim based on what we know of Maidana now (what I suspected before) and what we knew about everyone else in early January. I still say it was very close before the Bradley fight but I'm obviously in the minority. Khan had Kotelnik, Salita, Paulie, and Maidana. I view Salita as 2nd tier and Paulie as old. Devon had Kotelnik, Urango, Witter, and Chop Chop. I think the comp is pretty even and it comes down to style points. It was near unanimously decided that Khan surviving Maidana upped his reputation while Devon's dubious decision destroyed his credibility. That is the part that felt and still feels hypocritical at LWW.

@Grant
No problem man. I was just firing off a warning shot that I try not to argue just debate. People have difference in opinion and sounds like I'm the only one that views Bradley this way.

dbudge wrote:

Gumby wrote:

dbudge wrote:Khan is better than Alexander. Khan's body of work at 140lb is greater than Alexander's. Alexander has the chance to redeem himself, but Khan is just way better.

i can see your beef but i don't see what Alexander has done better than Khan at 140lb to have been ranked above him before he fought Bradley. his performance against Bradley justified that decision

Alexander's fought the majority of his career at 140. His body of work is much longer than Khan's. The way he won the title and the way he defended it was more impressive than Khan before the Kotelnik fight. I thought Bradley-Alexander should've been for the Ring belt. It wasn't because Alexander looked bad against Kotelnik right after Khan looked sensational against Malignaggi. Then Khan got the bump for beating Maidana even though Alexander was scheduled to fight Bradley and Khan didn't look impressive. It seemed too fast for me and I feel like it was done to build a Bradley/Alexander v. Khan fight.

i disagree. i don't see that Bradley or Alexander could have truly been recognised as the undisputed and lineal champion of 140lb without fighting Khan. Alexander KO'd Urango, so fucking what the referee could have let Juan continue and you're all talking like Urango was a monster... he really wasn't. Kotelnik got robbed against Alexander and Khan absolutely schooled Alexander. Malignaggi was ranked number 4/5 at the time that Khan ripped him a new asshole. Malignaggi has been beat before, but never that convincingly. then Khan beat the number 4 ranked Maidana, and Khan did look impressive in that fight. he took hellacious shots, proved his resilience, and won that fight fair and square. Alexander's one decent win over Urango doesn't beat Khan's body of work at 140lb IMO. Khan would have beaten Urango up as well. Khan deserved his number 2 over Alexander. Bradley vs Khan is the fight that will really determine who is the man at 140lb and i think that the Ring were right to make that decision

Let me put it to you this way. If Bradley fought Khan in March instead of Alexander in January, do you feel that should crown the champ anymore than what happened in January? I sure don't. You and everyone else are basically saying Bradley has to clean out the division to become champ. Urango was knocked out. He didn't know where he was. Paulie was through by the time Khan got to him. He barely got past N'dou, got ran over by Hatton, decisioned a can, then split with a shopworn man who should fight at 130. How does that make Paulie sound?
Khan was not very impressive against Maidana. I thought he wouldn't lose a single round and he lost 5. I'm shocked that people continue to put Khan's 4 wins immensely beyond Alexander's entire career.

Khan got a gift decision and his next fight he quit. If Bradley-Khan happened first for The Ring belt, I'd say the majorit would consider the winner The Champ. Especialy since it'd be coming off Alexander's gift win.

And I really doubt Bradly would not have fought Alexander at some point. Especialy since you know camp Alexander would have flapped their gums that Bradley is scared of Alexander

GrantZilla wrote:Khan got a gift decision and his next fight he quit. If Bradley-Khan happened first for The Ring belt, I'd say the majorit would consider the winner The Champ. Especialy since it'd be coming off Alexander's gift win.

And I really doubt Bradly would not have fought Alexander at some point. Especialy since you know camp Alexander would have flapped their gums that Bradley is scared of Alexander

This is part of my point. Bradley and Alexander wanted to fight each other. Boxing scene had an article recently that said Bradley-Khan could be in trouble over money issues. You keep using Alexander quitting as part of your point but we didn't know he would quit before the fight. I guess this is why we shouldn't bring up hypotheticals and conjecture

the bottom line is a kahn-bradley fight will be for the ring-lineal title because of not rings policy per say or its so called wisdom but because a bradley-alexander fight was not for the ring belt because of a change in ratings that happened after the two signed for the fight..the result is or was a four man tourney with the winner being the new champ..in this case the top 4 guys in the division were involved.thats the way it should be and not rings policy of there top two.a mistake in the rankings by them negated the bradley-alexander title fight and it works out for the better..the top 4 reduces a mistake in the rankings ..now some will complain that the top 4 isnt possible using tv contracts promoters fighters inactivity etc etc etc blah blah blah as reasons for the top two..but this is how it worked out and therefore there should be no debate on who should be recognized as the champ..
rings ratings yes we agree are the best but they have a policy of convience and at times that policy does not create a champ but encourages a vacantcy..example years ago ring use to drop a fighter down a notch or two and the reason was inactivity.in that era it ment 3 months.in todays it should be a long 9 months..floyds still number two after a year of inactivity and if he signs today to fight it will be 15 months.ring hints etc at droping floyd down the list but hasnt..he should be number 4 not based on talent or whos best but inactivity should have a penality..ditto clottey who hasnt fought in 13 months and if he signs it will be 16 months.
hes ranked sixth.was fifth before the pac loss and hasnt drop in ratings because of inactivity..
then we have the 118 tourney where the winner should be champ but ring has a guy at number two that deserves to be 5th or 6th...
ditto the 168 pounds.why is brute ahead of fronch.he hasnt done more then carl in that division.ward-fronch winner could or should be for the title if they meet and both win there upcoming fights.
ill say something controversial but it should not be..the trinket that the winner of fronch-ward should be recognized as the real champ if they both win there other fights. we can debate on the 140 way to declare a champ but it resulted in a 4 man tourney by accident but that accident gives it more legitimacy..

UBeeg9cats wrote:

dbudge wrote:

Gumby wrote:

dbudge wrote:Khan is better than Alexander. Khan's body of work at 140lb is greater than Alexander's. Alexander has the chance to redeem himself, but Khan is just way better.

i can see your beef but i don't see what Alexander has done better than Khan at 140lb to have been ranked above him before he fought Bradley. his performance against Bradley justified that decision

Alexander's fought the majority of his career at 140. His body of work is much longer than Khan's. The way he won the title and the way he defended it was more impressive than Khan before the Kotelnik fight. I thought Bradley-Alexander should've been for the Ring belt. It wasn't because Alexander looked bad against Kotelnik right after Khan looked sensational against Malignaggi. Then Khan got the bump for beating Maidana even though Alexander was scheduled to fight Bradley and Khan didn't look impressive. It seemed too fast for me and I feel like it was done to build a Bradley/Alexander v. Khan fight.

i disagree. i don't see that Bradley or Alexander could have truly been recognised as the undisputed and lineal champion of 140lb without fighting Khan. Alexander KO'd Urango, so fucking what the referee could have let Juan continue and you're all talking like Urango was a monster... he really wasn't. Kotelnik got robbed against Alexander and Khan absolutely schooled Alexander. Malignaggi was ranked number 4/5 at the time that Khan ripped him a new asshole. Malignaggi has been beat before, but never that convincingly. then Khan beat the number 4 ranked Maidana, and Khan did look impressive in that fight. he took hellacious shots, proved his resilience, and won that fight fair and square. Alexander's one decent win over Urango doesn't beat Khan's body of work at 140lb IMO. Khan would have beaten Urango up as well. Khan deserved his number 2 over Alexander. Bradley vs Khan is the fight that will really determine who is the man at 140lb and i think that the Ring were right to make that decision

Let me put it to you this way. If Bradley fought Khan in March instead of Alexander in January, do you feel that should crown the champ anymore than what happened in January? I sure don't. You and everyone else are basically saying Bradley has to clean out the division to become champ. Urango was knocked out. He didn't know where he was. Paulie was through by the time Khan got to him. He barely got past N'dou, got ran over by Hatton, decisioned a can, then split with a shopworn man who should fight at 130. How does that make Paulie sound?
Khan was not very impressive against Maidana. I thought he wouldn't lose a single round and he lost 5. I'm shocked that people continue to put Khan's 4 wins immensely beyond Alexander's entire career.

entire career against who though??? the fucking local postman in St Louis????

Khan's wins against top ranked guys have been far better than Alexander's. Alexander got a massive slice of home cooking against Kotelnik, yeh he beat Urango who has beaten who exactly?? and he beat Junior "the quitter" Witter, who made a career out of calling Ricky Hatton out when in reality he was a load of shit. Chop Chop Corley?? the same Chop Chop who got KTFO by Tszyu in 2 rounds 6 years before! Maidana would beat the fuck out of Alexander, Khan got the win. Kotelnik beat Alexander whether you want to admit that or not, Khan took Kotelnik to school. Malignaggi was ranked number 5 and was far more established at 140lb than Junior Witter or Kotelnik and Khan was phenomenal against him. Malignaggi is a tough dude, despite looking like a queen, and Khan stopped him more convincingly than anybody else has and Malignaggi couldn't complain about that like he could against Hatton. Khan's performance against Bradley is guaranteed to be far more impressive than Alexander's ever will be. i think Alexander has one tough night ahead of him against Matthysse. we'll see whether Ring have got it right then. but until Bradley beats Khan, he is not the man at 140lb simple as. he's already a champ if that's the credit you want to give him. he's not the undisputed champ though because Khan is out there and at 140lb Khan is as unbeaten as Bradley is. Khan's first fight at 140lb was against Kotelnik, that's highly impressive in itself and shows what talent Khan really has. anyway, you won't agree because you're supporting your hometwon fighter, and that's cool

dbudge wrote:
entire career against who though??? the fucking local postman in St Louis????

Khan's wins against top ranked guys have been far better than Alexander's. Alexander got a massive slice of home cooking against Kotelnik, yeh he beat Urango who has beaten who exactly?? and he beat Junior "the quitter" Witter, who made a career out of calling Ricky Hatton out when in reality he was a load of shit. Chop Chop Corley?? the same Chop Chop who got KTFO by Tszyu in 2 rounds 6 years before! Maidana would beat the fuck out of Alexander, Khan got the win. Kotelnik beat Alexander whether you want to admit that or not, Khan took Kotelnik to school. Malignaggi was ranked number 5 and was far more established at 140lb than Junior Witter or Kotelnik and Khan was phenomenal against him. Malignaggi is a tough dude, despite looking like a queen, and Khan stopped him more convincingly than anybody else has and Malignaggi couldn't complain about that like he could against Hatton. Khan's performance against Bradley is guaranteed to be far more impressive than Alexander's ever will be. i think Alexander has one tough night ahead of him against Matthysse. we'll see whether Ring have got it right then. but until Bradley beats Khan, he is not the man at 140lb simple as. he's already a champ if that's the credit you want to give him. he's not the undisputed champ though because Khan is out there and at 140lb Khan is as unbeaten as Bradley is. Khan's first fight at 140lb was against Kotelnik, that's highly impressive in itself and shows what talent Khan really has. anyway, you won't agree because you're supporting your hometwon fighter, and that's cool

Isn't the bold applicable to Devon vs Kotelnik? I realize you think I'm supporting my hometown and I am to a certain extent but you are wildly exaggerating Khan's resume too. Kotelnik was the same fighter for both. Maidana has the victory against Victor Ortiz and that's it. He looked confused against Morales, a man once beaten by David Diaz into a temporary retirement. Any way you look at it Maidana and Urango are both crude but solid fighters with virtually no boxing skill. Paulie and Witter are both former trinket holders that had seen better days. That leaves Salita vs Chop Chop. Salita was stepping up while Chop Chop was a wily veteran. Khan whupped Kotelnik but survived his brute fight while Devon whupped his brute and survived his fight with Kotelnik. Khan is clearly the better fighter but that is on STYLE POINTS ALONE.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

dbudge wrote:
entire career against who though??? the fucking local postman in St Louis????

Khan's wins against top ranked guys have been far better than Alexander's. Alexander got a massive slice of home cooking against Kotelnik, yeh he beat Urango who has beaten who exactly?? and he beat Junior "the quitter" Witter, who made a career out of calling Ricky Hatton out when in reality he was a load of shit. Chop Chop Corley?? the same Chop Chop who got KTFO by Tszyu in 2 rounds 6 years before! Maidana would beat the fuck out of Alexander, Khan got the win. Kotelnik beat Alexander whether you want to admit that or not, Khan took Kotelnik to school. Malignaggi was ranked number 5 and was far more established at 140lb than Junior Witter or Kotelnik and Khan was phenomenal against him. Malignaggi is a tough dude, despite looking like a queen, and Khan stopped him more convincingly than anybody else has and Malignaggi couldn't complain about that like he could against Hatton. Khan's performance against Bradley is guaranteed to be far more impressive than Alexander's ever will be. i think Alexander has one tough night ahead of him against Matthysse. we'll see whether Ring have got it right then. but until Bradley beats Khan, he is not the man at 140lb simple as. he's already a champ if that's the credit you want to give him. he's not the undisputed champ though because Khan is out there and at 140lb Khan is as unbeaten as Bradley is. Khan's first fight at 140lb was against Kotelnik, that's highly impressive in itself and shows what talent Khan really has. anyway, you won't agree because you're supporting your hometwon fighter, and that's cool

Isn't the bold applicable to Devon vs Kotelnik? I realize you think I'm supporting my hometown and I am to a certain extent but you are wildly exaggerating Khan's resume too. Kotelnik was the same fighter for both. Maidana has the victory against Victor Ortiz and that's it. He looked confused against Morales, a man once beaten by David Diaz into a temporary retirement. Any way you look at it Maidana and Urango are both crude but solid fighters with virtually no boxing skill. Paulie and Witter are both former trinket holders that had seen better days. That leaves Salita vs Chop Chop. Salita was stepping up while Chop Chop was a wily veteran. Khan whupped Kotelnik but survived his brute fight while Devon whupped his brute and survived his fight with Kotelnik. Khan is clearly the better fighter but that is on STYLE POINTS ALONE.

Khan beat Kotelnik without the shadow of a doubt!!!! Even Kotelnik's mom would acknowledge he didn't get close to winning.

Opinion is rather divided as to whether Alexander actually won the fight against Kotelnik. Not just among people on this board, but there are respected boxing writers who critiqued the decision and argued Kotelnik won.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:alexander quit and thats reason enough to move down and kahn under far more adversity did not quit.devon at number 3 or 4 iis fair for him..he can overcome if he gets a little more heart to go along with his bravado..im in the minority here but maidana isnt a beast.nor is his chin granite like other great chins..hes a good puncher that is slow with combos easy to hit ..he has heart and courage some talent but not a beast if you look at pryor duran even ray mancini.there just examples of fighters who offensively had more fluidity and approaced you with a more destructive force and were not staggered a half dozen times by a aging legend nor decked several times in a fight in there absolute prime which maidana is right now at..hes a fighter all of us like to watch because theres action.the 2 brocton boys hagler and rocky were beasts.cerdan of yesteryear hell even a saddler or robinson were just a different style of beast.
kahn bradley alexander maidana jab etc etc yes a very talented division but to me none stand out that will approach greatness.or near greatness..nor beasthood.

See I'm in agreement with this about Maidana. When Chop Chop gives you trouble, you might need to reevaluate some things. Anyways, the only thing I can say about Alexander is he quit in the Bradley fight AFTER he was already moved down. It really makes me feel Bradley is the uncrowned champ but seems like I'm the only one

I consider Bradley the champ right now. I think he should be the ring champ too.

captainanddew wrote:

UBeeg9cats wrote:

dbudge wrote:
entire career against who though??? the fucking local postman in St Louis????

Khan's wins against top ranked guys have been far better than Alexander's. Alexander got a massive slice of home cooking against Kotelnik, yeh he beat Urango who has beaten who exactly?? and he beat Junior "the quitter" Witter, who made a career out of calling Ricky Hatton out when in reality he was a load of shit. Chop Chop Corley?? the same Chop Chop who got KTFO by Tszyu in 2 rounds 6 years before! Maidana would beat the fuck out of Alexander, Khan got the win. Kotelnik beat Alexander whether you want to admit that or not, Khan took Kotelnik to school. Malignaggi was ranked number 5 and was far more established at 140lb than Junior Witter or Kotelnik and Khan was phenomenal against him. Malignaggi is a tough dude, despite looking like a queen, and Khan stopped him more convincingly than anybody else has and Malignaggi couldn't complain about that like he could against Hatton. Khan's performance against Bradley is guaranteed to be far more impressive than Alexander's ever will be. i think Alexander has one tough night ahead of him against Matthysse. we'll see whether Ring have got it right then. but until Bradley beats Khan, he is not the man at 140lb simple as. he's already a champ if that's the credit you want to give him. he's not the undisputed champ though because Khan is out there and at 140lb Khan is as unbeaten as Bradley is. Khan's first fight at 140lb was against Kotelnik, that's highly impressive in itself and shows what talent Khan really has. anyway, you won't agree because you're supporting your hometwon fighter, and that's cool

Isn't the bold applicable to Devon vs Kotelnik? I realize you think I'm supporting my hometown and I am to a certain extent but you are wildly exaggerating Khan's resume too. Kotelnik was the same fighter for both. Maidana has the victory against Victor Ortiz and that's it. He looked confused against Morales, a man once beaten by David Diaz into a temporary retirement. Any way you look at it Maidana and Urango are both crude but solid fighters with virtually no boxing skill. Paulie and Witter are both former trinket holders that had seen better days. That leaves Salita vs Chop Chop. Salita was stepping up while Chop Chop was a wily veteran. Khan whupped Kotelnik but survived his brute fight while Devon whupped his brute and survived his fight with Kotelnik. Khan is clearly the better fighter but that is on STYLE POINTS ALONE.

Khan beat Kotelnik without the shadow of a doubt!!!! Even Kotelnik's mom would acknowledge he didn't get close to winning.

Opinion is rather divided as to whether Alexander actually won the fight against Kotelnik. Not just among people on this board, but there are respected boxing writers who critiqued the decision and argued Kotelnik won.

Please reread what I said. I admitted Khan performed 1000x better against the common opponent but I believe that Devon performed 1000x better against a comparable crude power puncher. I think there is no sane reasoning for putting Devon above Khan NOW but I still think it was an erroneous decision to demote Devon for a controversial decision. It doesn't matter anymore because it is all hearsay and conjecture but Tim Bradley is the uncrowned champ IMO. He would be entitled to more money against Khan if he was the champ instead of a beltholder. He would be slightly higher on the radars of Pac and Mayweather too.

Please forgive me for hijacking this thread, however Bradley is another headbutting machine. Though I had immense admiration for Evander Holyfield, I never forgot his unnecessary but consistently used illegal tactics. I still think Van is the best HW of his day, however those head butts were intentional. I'll be damned if I watch it happen all over again with Bradley and say nothing.

Accidental headbutts are a reality, though not nearly to the point they are called by the officials. If a fighter is warned for headbutts in every fight, most likely it's intentional and even rehearsed. If I had Khan, I'd fight everyone but Bradley for that reason.

Some will say that it's the way Bradley comes in that is responsible for the headbutts. I say, look at the "Hagler - Hearns" fight. Hagler had one of the hardest heads in the history of the sport. That rock was as hard as a diamond which is why Hearns broke his hand on it. However, look at them fight when they are in close quarters. Though what occured was comparable to a bar room brawl, Hagler carefully placed his head on one side of Tommy's shoulders, then the other side while the two were fighting on the ropes. This was to AVOID a head butt. Hagler knew what he was doing and regardless of all the punches thrown that night, only hands were used to do damage, not heads.

I used this fight as an example, because if any fighter had an opportunity to headbutt and claim it was not intentional, it was Hagler on April 15th, 1985. He did not. Also, note that if a fighter is too wild to fight without headbutting, he needs to be trained further until he's broken out of this habit.

frank im in complete agreement especialy when the flimsy excuse of styles cause butts lol..hmmm in every fight there in interesting.ive said in the past that some use it as a rehearsed punch or third glove..these 2 examples you gave are perfect examples.