The Boxing Palace's Greatest Ever Heavyweight Tournament (Elite 8)

Just vote for who you think would win each fight if both fighters were at their peak in a 12 round fight.

1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

freakzilla wrote:1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Freak, I'll agree with your results, but don't underestimate Johnson. The man was a pure genius. He may've found a way to beat Louis. Remember, he defeated the black HWs of his day before fighting white fighters.

Frank wrote:

freakzilla wrote:1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Freak, I'll agree with your results, but don't underestimate Johnson. The man was a pure genius. He may've found a way to beat Louis. Remember, he defeated the black HWs of his day before fighting white fighters.

My knowledge of him isn't up to par with what it should be. You think he was that good?

freakzilla wrote:

Frank wrote:

freakzilla wrote:1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Freak, I'll agree with your results, but don't underestimate Johnson. The man was a pure genius. He may've found a way to beat Louis. Remember, he defeated the black HWs of his day before fighting white fighters.

My knowledge of him isn't up to par with what it should be. You think he was that good?

He was that creative. You can easily study him on the net. Historians, both in and out of sports, are amazed by him. Have fun with the research if you choose to.

Frank wrote:

freakzilla wrote:1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Freak, I'll agree with your results, but don't underestimate Johnson. The man was a pure genius. He may've found a way to beat Louis. Remember, he defeated the black HWs of his day before fighting white fighters.

Not all the black fighters, Frank. Refused to rematch Langford (many felt Sam was cheated out of a decision their first go despite being a middleweight fighting a heavy)

freakzilla wrote:Just vote for who you think would win each fight if both fighters were at their peak in a 12 round fight.

1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Ali treats his former sparring partner exactly like he still is...Ali on all cards

Jack's defense confuses Louis until round 12, when cut, bleeding, and trailing badly on all three cards, Joe catches a cocky Johnson, who makes the fatal mistake of trying to toy with the Bomber by leaving a left hand out there one second too long. Louis KO12

George proves too big and too strong for the Rock...batters him into submission. Rock sits on his stool and stays there after the 8th round.

This we've already seen. Except a now prime Lewis stops Vitali not on cuts but with an UPPERCUT in round 5.

freakzilla wrote:Just vote for who you think would win each fight if both fighters were at their peak in a 12 round fight.

1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Holmes
Louis
Foreman
Lewis




I think if you change the original match-ups you would get a different champion everytime.

[quote="koolkc107"]

freakzilla wrote:Just vote for who you think would win each fight if both fighters were at their peak in a 12 round fight.

1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Ali treats his former sparring partner exactly like he still is...Ali on all cards

You realize that Holmes man-handled Ali in thier sparring virtually every single day? right? Giachetti and Pacheco both said Ali got worked over by Holmes daily. They had differing opinions as to WHY that was though.

Ali
Louis
Marciano
Vitali

ali-again, i think that ali is in for a tough fight. so far he has had a tough draw to where i could see him losing but i think that a prime ali edges holmes on the scorecards.

louis-i think that this would actually be a close fight. johnson knew louis and said that he thought that he would beat louis if they had fought. while i disagree, i agree that johnson would have given louis many problems. in an ugly fight, louis wins UD.

foreman-styles make fights and you cant convince me that anybody of rockys style could beat foreman. the way to beat him if staying away or tiring him out. the only way that foreman gets tired out is if he gets tired of hitting the rock so many times.

lewis-vitali doesnt deserve to even be in the final 8 IMO. anyway, in the fight that they really had, lewis literally looked the worst that i had ever seen him. that includes when he got KO'd by rahman. lewis just looked terrible in that fight and still won and it was his last fight before retirement. if they fought when lewis was a bit younger and he actually fought like he normally did, it wouldnt go past 6 rounds but vitali would get dropped this time.

Vitali wasn't at his peak for that fight either. I was a big Lewis fan though and think he would've always beaten Vitali.

freakzilla wrote:Vitali wasn't at his peak for that fight either. I was a big Lewis fan though and think he would've always beaten Vitali.

what do you mean by not at his peak? as in not in his prime or just didnt fight well? because he didnt really have any more of a prime than that and he looked about normal in that fight if not even a little better since it was and still is by far the biggest fight of his career.

freakzilla wrote:1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

+1 - I'm with you on all these picks.

Lewis is the easiest call as we already saw that fight. I have to think a prime Ali takes care of Holmes, not to take anything way from an already underrated Larry. Louis I think is too much for Johnson, but that's really hard to say given the huge gap in eras and style. And Foreman is just too big and strong for Rocky, IMO.

No more votes needed. All results were one way.

1. Muhammad Ali 6-1 Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis 7-0 Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano 1-6 George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis 6-1 Vitali Klitschko

[quote="boxinglawyer"]

koolkc107 wrote:

freakzilla wrote:Just vote for who you think would win each fight if both fighters were at their peak in a 12 round fight.

1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Ali treats his former sparring partner exactly like he still is...Ali on all cards

You realize that Holmes man-handled Ali in thier sparring virtually every single day? right? Giachetti and Pacheco both said Ali got worked over by Holmes daily. They had differing opinions as to WHY that was though.

That is what Giachetti and Pacheco said? When did they say it? And why?

That is what you need to find out in order to judge the veracity of those statements.

Me? I go to the source.

BoxingInsider: Let’s change the pace. How did it feel getting hit by Muhammad Ali?

Larry Holmes: It felt good, man [smiles].

BoxingInsider: Did he hit hard?

Larry Holmes: No [laughs].

BoxingInsider: What about in sparring when he was younger, did he hit hard then?

Larry Holmes: No. When I was working with Muhammad Ali from 1971-1974, he hit me. And a lot. From 1975 he couldn’t hit me no more. I quit. I didn’t work with him anymore. After he fought Chuck Wepner in Cleveland, Ohio, that was the last time I went in the ring with Muhammad Ali.

BoxingInsider: Did he fire you or what?

Larry Holmes: No, I quit.

Larry Holmes, one of the proudest men ever to put on gloves, says he got hit "a lot". That usually doesn't happen if you're getting the best of sparring, my friend.

http://boxingmemories.com/2011/03/26/talking-boxing-with-larry-holmes/

[quote="koolkc107"]

boxinglawyer wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

freakzilla wrote:Just vote for who you think would win each fight if both fighters were at their peak in a 12 round fight.

1. Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes
2. Joe Louis vs Jack Johnson
3. Rocky Marciano vs George Foreman
4. Lennox Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko

Ali treats his former sparring partner exactly like he still is...Ali on all cards

You realize that Holmes man-handled Ali in thier sparring virtually every single day? right? Giachetti and Pacheco both said Ali got worked over by Holmes daily. They had differing opinions as to WHY that was though.

That is what Giachetti and Pacheco said? When did they say it? And why?

That is what you need to find out in order to judge the veracity of those statements.

Me? I go to the source.

BoxingInsider: Let’s change the pace. How did it feel getting hit by Muhammad Ali?

Larry Holmes: It felt good, man [smiles].

BoxingInsider: Did he hit hard?

Larry Holmes: No [laughs].

BoxingInsider: What about in sparring when he was younger, did he hit hard then?

Larry Holmes: No. When I was working with Muhammad Ali from 1971-1974, he hit me. And a lot. From 1975 he couldn’t hit me no more. I quit. I didn’t work with him anymore. After he fought Chuck Wepner in Cleveland, Ohio, that was the last time I went in the ring with Muhammad Ali.

BoxingInsider: Did he fire you or what?

Larry Holmes: No, I quit.

Larry Holmes, one of the proudest men ever to put on gloves, says he got hit "a lot". That usually doesn't happen if you're getting the best of sparring, my friend.

http://boxingmemories.com/2011/03/26/talking-boxing-with-larry-holmes/

FSN’s one-hour documentary series BEYOND THE GLORY returns with a new episode profiling boxing legend Larry “The Easton Assassin” Holmes. This episode of BTG tells the story of Holmes’ prolific career from his early days as a protégé of famed champion Muhammad Ali to becoming boxing’s longest reigning heavyweight champion. BTG: LARRY HOLMES airs Sun., August 28 at 6:00 PM local..

Trainer Ernie Butler watched the then teenage Holmes working out in a local gym and saw tremendous potential. While training him for amateur bouts, Butler introduced Holmes to Ali, who took to young boxer instantly. Holmes began to spar and train with Ali in preparation for his own career inside the ring.

After watching Holmes’ sparring sessions with Ali, veteran trainer Ritchie Giachetti signed him and set Holmes’ sights on becoming the heavyweight champion of the world.

Quotes from BTG: Larry Holmes

Ritchie Giachetti: "He was working Ali over. I mean really working him over on the ropes, but Ali always laid on the ropes in sparring. What caught my eye was how he controlled Ali with the jab in the center of the ring. Nobody ever did that. Ever. Thats when I knew the kid was the next great heavywieght champion."
Larry Holmes: “I had to keep telling myself, you know, ‘I am as good as anybody that walks on this Earth. And I can beat anybody who steps in that ring.’”

Holmes (about Muhammad Ali): “After the fight was all over, I went to his room and he was laying in the bed, getting massaged. I said, ‘I love you, man.’ He says, ‘If you love me, why you beat me up like that?’”

Holmes: “Every time somebody pushed me against the ropes, I felt like I would get a burst of energy…You can’t just shut me down.”

Holmes: “Boxing has matured me, has given me wealth, taken me places I never would’ve went before, made me strong with my family and my friends. A guy who didn’t learn how to read and write until after he got out of school, a guy who took the long road to get to something wasn’t so far away. Boxing has done it all.”

Jim Lampley: “It’s no accident that Larry goes to his hometown of Easton and constructs his own business empire. He doesn’t want to be dependent on anybody else. That’s the nature of Larry Holmes.”

Larry Merchant: “When an athlete gets older, what’s inside of him gets revealed and you find out what he’s made of. And I think that people saw what Larry was made of.”

Jake Holmes: “The toughest guy that I ever boxed with had to be Larry Holmes for the simple reason he was so mean. Larry Holmes will kill you, literally kill you if you let him.”

Almost forgot Pacheco's comments are in his book "A View From The Corner" and "A trail of Blood". Im too lazy to look em up, but you can if you want. The Gist is that Pacheco thought Ali should have retired in 1975. He thinks Holmes dominated Ali because of the parkinsons.

( Angelo Dundee said pretty much the same thing btw)