ANDRE WARD'S LIMITATION

The guy is turning into a terriffic fighter. But I think he is missing one thing that will keep him from being a star. He is not a lethal puncher. He's a good one, but not an electric, highlight reel one.

Am I wrong about his power or it's impact on his stardom?

marbleheadmaui wrote:The guy is turning into a terriffic fighter. But I think he is missing one thing that will keep him from being a star. He is not a lethal puncher. He's a good one, but not an electric, highlight reel one.

Am I wrong about his power or it's impact on his stardom?

I think that you're spot on and I think that's why Hopkins never had a right guard commercial and Haggler did. Ward is in a shit division as far as publicity is concerned.

marbleheadmaui wrote:The guy is turning into a terriffic fighter. But I think he is missing one thing that will keep him from being a star. He is not a lethal puncher. He's a good one, but not an electric, highlight reel one.

Am I wrong about his power or it's impact on his stardom?

Too bad he doesn't have Bute's power. How much of Bute's KO power is the result of good timing and getting people to walk into his punches compared to just raw power?

Bute's power is more timing, definitly. Which is more important. You can have massive power, but if can't connect, it's useless

Unless you got Big George power. He didn't have to land clean to lift you off the mat

Groundhog wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:The guy is turning into a terriffic fighter. But I think he is missing one thing that will keep him from being a star. He is not a lethal puncher. He's a good one, but not an electric, highlight reel one.

Am I wrong about his power or it's impact on his stardom?

Too bad he doesn't have Bute's power. How much of Bute's KO power is the result of good timing and getting people to walk into his punches compared to just raw power?

THAT is exactly the comparison I was thinking. Those two things really work together don't they? I mean Joe Louis may not have been quite the power generator of Ernie Shavers, but did ANYONE ever set his punches up better than Louis?

My own guess is Ward's legs are regularly too far apart to generate maximum leverage whereas Bute has a more classic and efficient punching style.

GrantZilla wrote:Bute's power is more timing, definitly. Which is more important. You can have massive power, but if can't connect, it's useless

Unless you got Big George power. He didn't have to land clean to lift you off the mat

Big George could knock one down with the concussion of a near miss

I don't think Ward got power period. Sure better leverage could give him a little more pop, but he'll never have a big punch

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Groundhog wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:The guy is turning into a terriffic fighter. But I think he is missing one thing that will keep him from being a star. He is not a lethal puncher. He's a good one, but not an electric, highlight reel one.

Am I wrong about his power or it's impact on his stardom?

Too bad he doesn't have Bute's power. How much of Bute's KO power is the result of good timing and getting people to walk into his punches compared to just raw power?

THAT is exactly the comparison I was thinking. Those two things really work together don't they? I mean Joe Louis may not have been quite the power generator of Ernie Shavers, but did ANYONE ever set his punches up better than Louis?

My own guess is Ward's legs are regularly too far apart to generate maximum leverage whereas Bute has a more classic and efficient punching style.

LOL I love watching Bute's straight down the pipe body blow. It's like the "gimme your lunch money" shot you see on playgrounds.

Call me crazy, but I think Wlad probably hits as hard as Shavers and Foreman. Maybe even harder.

I know Roach who trained Tyson said Wlad hits way harder than Tyson, but Tyson was faster

GrantZilla wrote:I don't think Ward got power period. Sure better leverage could give him a little more pop, but he'll never have a big punch

You could well be right. Hard to see Ward making a fundamental change while he's winning.

Groundhog wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Groundhog wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:The guy is turning into a terriffic fighter. But I think he is missing one thing that will keep him from being a star. He is not a lethal puncher. He's a good one, but not an electric, highlight reel one.

Am I wrong about his power or it's impact on his stardom?

Too bad he doesn't have Bute's power. How much of Bute's KO power is the result of good timing and getting people to walk into his punches compared to just raw power?

THAT is exactly the comparison I was thinking. Those two things really work together don't they? I mean Joe Louis may not have been quite the power generator of Ernie Shavers, but did ANYONE ever set his punches up better than Louis?

My own guess is Ward's legs are regularly too far apart to generate maximum leverage whereas Bute has a more classic and efficient punching style.

LOL I love watching Bute's straight down the pipe body blow. It's like the "gimme your lunch money" shot you see on playgrounds.

LOL!

GrantZilla wrote:Call me crazy, but I think Wlad probably hits as hard as Shavers and Foreman. Maybe even harder.

I know Roach who trained Tyson said Wlad hits way harder than Tyson, but Tyson was faster

I just cannot recall anyone's jab just paralyzing guy after guy after 2-3 rounds. It just takes the steam out of everyone in a way I haven't seen before.

Some of that may be the competition.

Compition definitly, but when Wlad connects with that right hand, I don't care if your Muhammad Ali, your going to eat the canvas. It's pulverizing.

And it makes sense. Wlad built like a puncher. Strong legs, long arms to get maximum velocity on his punches at a good range

marbleheadmaui wrote:

LOL!

I think if Bute could develop a Martinez-esque right hook, I would pick him without too much hesitation to become champ at 168 soon. Every time he hurts someone with the solar plexus punch, prospective opponents see that shit, and they gain more respect for it, and actual opponents fear it. By the end of the fight Brinkley was flinching at the slightest twitch of that left.

...too bad he has a weaksauce pansy right hook

Ward's lack of power will prevent Ward from being a star...unless he keeps fighting and beating the best. 168 is stacked enough and Ward is charming enough that if he comes out on top of the Super Six he'll be a household name. If he beats a few top contenders and a mega fight with Bute I think he can become the face of US boxing.

Also, I strongly believe he's going to keep improving. He's already identified his own weaknesses and nullified them by smothering guys. I think as he evolves his offense will come along as well. Ward showed a much improved left hook tonight and dug to the body with flurries of uppercuts that he hasn't shown. As he develops more and gets more comfortable he can either open up his combinations more or sit on his punches more. Eventually, he's going to figure out how to put guys away.

Ward could really benefit from a counter uppercut. Also, he needs to take more chances. By round 9 he had worn Bika down and taken control of the fight. Instead of opening up on or sticking and moving against a more vulnerable Bika he took the safe route and grinded away the victory. Unfortunately, with Abe and Froch/Johnson I doubt he's going to KO anyone anytime soon. I enjoyed that fight though. I'm biased but I think the general public could get behind fights like that.

Gumby wrote:Ward's lack of power will prevent Ward from being a star...unless he keeps fighting and beating the best. 168 is stacked enough and Ward is charming enough that if he comes out on top of the Super Six he'll be a household name. If he beats a few top contenders and a mega fight with Bute I think he can become the face of US boxing.

Also, I strongly believe he's going to keep improving. He's already identified his own weaknesses and nullified them by smothering guys. I think as he evolves his offense will come along as well. Ward showed a much improved left hook tonight and dug to the body with flurries of uppercuts that he hasn't shown. As he develops more and gets more comfortable he can either open up his combinations more or sit on his punches more. Eventually, he's going to figure out how to put guys away.

Ward could really benefit from a counter uppercut. Also, he needs to take more chances. By round 9 he had worn Bika down and taken control of the fight. Instead of opening up on or sticking and moving against a more vulnerable Bika he took the safe route and grinded away the victory. Unfortunately, with Abe and Froch/Johnson I doubt he's going to KO anyone anytime soon. I enjoyed that fight though. I'm biased but I think the general public could get behind fights like that.

VERY nice post.

I don't agree with all of it (obviously), but nice post.

The thing is I WANT Ward to be a star. He seems like a really, really good guy, has his stuff together etc.

Nobody calls themselves "Son of God" is always preaching, has no power, is going to be a star in boxing.

If you don't got power, you better have a colorful personality. Ward doesn't.

I don't see him ever being a star. His trainer doesn't seem him as a star. He sees him as a star-killer

GrantZilla wrote:Nobody calls themselves "Son of God" is always preaching, has no power, is going to be a star in boxing.

If you don't got power, you better have a colorful personality. Ward doesn't.

I don't see him ever being a star. His trainer doesn't seem him as a star. He sees him as a star-killer

Isn't it Son of a Gun? Either way its Shit.

Uggg just looked it up it is Son of God. Sorry grant. Yeah that blows. Fuck that nickname

You've only just discovered this Marble, should have been clear with theMiranda, Kessler and Green fights.

GrantZilla wrote:Compition definitly, but when Wlad connects with that right hand, I don't care if your Muhammad Ali, your going to eat the canvas. It's pulverizing.

And it makes sense. Wlad built like a puncher. Strong legs, long arms to get maximum velocity on his punches at a good range

Let's not get carried away.

i dunno Frank, that right hand puts people to sleep, not just down on their arse. I'm sure that Wlad's power would be trouble for anybody if they were to get caught flush with it. 245lb lean muscle with 6'7" worth of leverage into it. i think i'd rather get hit by a car

i dunno Frank, that right hand puts people to sleep, not just down on their arse. I'm sure that Wlad's power would be trouble for anybody if they were to get caught flush with it. 245lb lean muscle with 6'7" worth of leverage into it. i think i'd rather get hit by a car

dbudge wrote:i dunno Frank, that right hand puts people to sleep, not just down on their arse. I'm sure that Wlad's power would be trouble for anybody if they were to get caught flush with it. 245lb lean muscle with 6'7" worth of leverage into it. i think i'd rather get hit by a car

No doubt he can hit dbudge, but I watched an "over the hill" Ali take the best of Earnie Shavers for 15 rounds. He hit Ali so hard in the latter rounds that one of the announcers, Ken Norton, actually screamed. Believe it or not, Ali came back to stun him in the 15th and almost took him out. If Ali takes a ten count, you don't bring a doctor in ring, you bring an undertaker.

GrantZilla wrote:Compition definitly, but when Wlad connects with that right hand, I don't care if your Muhammad Ali, your going to eat the canvas. It's pulverizing.

And it makes sense. Wlad built like a puncher. Strong legs, long arms to get maximum velocity on his punches at a good range

wlad is timid as hell, but as soon as he lands a good right hand, 95% of his opponents run like a little girl. That thing hurts like all hell.