Do you think Margo cheated in the first fight?

The evidence Cotto brought up about the broken hand wraps was new to me and I believe it, but I thought Margo was guilty all along.

most people dont only cheat once.

max said something on 24/7 overtime or whatever it was on hbo yesterday.


Cotto had suspected that Margarito cheated.

Cotto had pictures for the face off of wraps (which he said don't tear or break like that, etc....).

Max is right, Cotto believed that Margarito had cheated prior to the face off, but it wasn't 100% concrete in Cotto's head. Very strong but still some slight doubt.

Cotto didn't buy at all Margarito's responses during the face off. You could tell it crystalized in Cotto's mind right then and there that 100% Margarito was a fucking cheater.

If you were on the fence prior to the face off then you probably feel as I did, that Margarito seemed rather guilty.

I thought he was guilty all along but the evidence Cotto brought up and Margarito's reaction did make me believe it more. While I think Margarito is a style nightmare for Cotto, I think the plaster speeds up the inevitable catching of Cotto by 2-3 rounds which changes who won the first fight. I wonder about Cotto's chin at 154 and am worried for him.

captainanddew wrote:max said something on 24/7 overtime or whatever it was on hbo yesterday.


Cotto had suspected that Margarito cheated.

Cotto had pictures for the face off of wraps (which he said don't tear or break like that, etc....).

Max is right, Cotto believed that Margarito had cheated prior to the face off, but it wasn't 100% concrete in Cotto's head. Very strong but still some slight doubt.

Cotto didn't buy at all Margarito's responses during the face off. You could tell it crystalized in Cotto's mind right then and there that 100% Margarito was a fucking cheater.

If you were on the fence prior to the face off then you probably feel as I did, that Margarito seemed rather guilty.

Margo's gloves??

I wish there was an "I don't know" option.

kbyte wrote:I wish there was an "I don't know" option.

+1

but going off last night's fight Cotto's face was still fucked up and Margarito got to him much less than the first and we were just heading into the championship rounds

kbyte wrote:I wish there was an "I don't know" option.

Well of course we don't "know". The only person who really knows is Margo's old trainer, and maybe Margo himself. The rest of us are extrapolating based on the evidence.

Clearly he tried to cheat once, and there's every reason to think he had done that before - especially when the first Cotto fight was the biggest of Margo's career to that point.

gomez1012 wrote:

kbyte wrote:I wish there was an "I don't know" option.

+1

but going off last night's fight Cotto's face was still fucked up and Margarito got to him much less than the first and we were just heading into the championship rounds

+2

We have to factor in the fact that Margarito has declined significantly since the first fight, he's had terrible beatings, lay-offs and a severely damaged right eye.

Hagler's Bald Head wrote:

gomez1012 wrote:

kbyte wrote:I wish there was an "I don't know" option.

+1

but going off last night's fight Cotto's face was still fucked up and Margarito got to him much less than the first and we were just heading into the championship rounds

+2

We have to factor in the fact that Margarito has declined significantly since the first fight, he's had terrible beatings, lay-offs and a severely damaged right eye.

SO HAS COTTO. Even in wins Cotto has looked beat up since Margarito. Margarito beat Cotto with bricks, just like all who cheat, they do it until they're caught and they're rarely caught the first time.

I bet at some point long after he retires, Margo will come clean, trying to sell his story and garner sympathy for the poor health he will likely be in.

NJBeatdown86 wrote:I bet at some point long after he retires, Margo will come clean, trying to sell his story and garner sympathy for the poor health he will likely be in.

he won't have a need to sell his story if he saved his money. Big payday vs Cotto, Mosley, Pac, and then Cotto, in addition to HBO fights against PW, Cintron, Cintron, Clottey, and trinket fights that weren't on hbo like two fights against Daniel Santos.

He made a hefty chunk of change.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Hagler's Bald Head wrote:

gomez1012 wrote:

kbyte wrote:I wish there was an "I don't know" option.

+1

but going off last night's fight Cotto's face was still fucked up and Margarito got to him much less than the first and we were just heading into the championship rounds

+2

We have to factor in the fact that Margarito has declined significantly since the first fight, he's had terrible beatings, lay-offs and a severely damaged right eye.

SO HAS COTTO. Even in wins Cotto has looked beat up since Margarito. Margarito beat Cotto with bricks, just like all who cheat, they do it until they're caught and they're rarely caught the first time.

no shit, i find it hillarious that people forget the beatings cotto has taken. cotto's face looked the same it did after the Mayorga fight. Why is it so hard for you guys to admit that this guy has been cheating for a while.
do you guys honestly believe that he only did it against mosley??? we are talking about the mosley who had lost to cotto and then had a horrible fight against mayorga and guess who was in the crowd that night for the mayorga fight?? MARGOBRICKO. Why would he feel that ALL OF A SUDDEN he needed to use plaster agaisnt mosley when he looked like shit against Mayorga?

As for him cheating vs Cotto, one point that is never discussed is this:

Miguel Cotto defeated Shane Mosley. Why would Margarito feel the need to cheat vs. Mosley when Cotto beat him?

As for Margarito not knowing about the illegal substance vs. Mosley.

When they showed Margarito getting his hand wrapped during the PPV, Steward pointed out how attentive Margarito was while getting his hand wrapped. He was talking to his trainer and even making him backtrack after he did a few hand pumps to make sure the wrap felt good.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Hagler's Bald Head wrote:

gomez1012 wrote:

kbyte wrote:I wish there was an "I don't know" option.

+1

but going off last night's fight Cotto's face was still fucked up and Margarito got to him much less than the first and we were just heading into the championship rounds

+2

We have to factor in the fact that Margarito has declined significantly since the first fight, he's had terrible beatings, lay-offs and a severely damaged right eye.

SO HAS COTTO. Even in wins Cotto has looked beat up since Margarito. Margarito beat Cotto with bricks, just like all who cheat, they do it until they're caught and they're rarely caught the first time.

I don't think Cotto has declined as much as people think he has. I would say his current status is comparable to when De La Hoya fought Mayorga in his comeback fight. He is still a good fighter and I look forward to him fighting in big fights to support boxing. I think the fight vs. Chavez Jr is an excellent one. If Chavez Jr. can beat Cotto, it really puts his name out there.

I think Capetillo used tainted wraps & Margarito knew it. The first fight was a combination of Cotto not being effective going backwards, running out of gas & Margo having a great beard. The wraps that Cotto had pictures of couldn't have been the only reason Cotto lost. They are too small to make that big a difference. A small difference sure, but not the whole thing.

flapanther2001 wrote:I think Capetillo used tainted wraps & Margarito knew it. The first fight was a combination of Cotto not being effective going backwards, running out of gas & Margo having a great beard. The wraps that Cotto had pictures of couldn't have been the only reason Cotto lost. They are too small to make that big a difference. A small difference sure, but not the whole thing.

The handwraps gave Margarito two advantages.

1) The obvious. The punches had more of an effect, even if it was a minor effect.

2) More importantly, the wraps gave Margarito a huge psychological advantage. Similar to someone using steroids, they have extremely high determination knowing that they have an advantage over their opponent. A placebo effect in a sense.

Shaun wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:I think Capetillo used tainted wraps & Margarito knew it. The first fight was a combination of Cotto not being effective going backwards, running out of gas & Margo having a great beard. The wraps that Cotto had pictures of couldn't have been the only reason Cotto lost. They are too small to make that big a difference. A small difference sure, but not the whole thing.

The handwraps gave Margarito two advantages.

1) The obvious. The punches had more of an effect, even if it was a minor effect.

2) More importantly, the wraps gave Margarito a huge psychological advantage. Similar to someone using steroids, they have extremely high determination knowing that they have an advantage over their opponent. A placebo effect in a sense.

None of that belies the fact that Cotto landed a lot on Margo, yet could not hurt him or stop him.

flapanther2001 wrote:

Shaun wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:I think Capetillo used tainted wraps & Margarito knew it. The first fight was a combination of Cotto not being effective going backwards, running out of gas & Margo having a great beard. The wraps that Cotto had pictures of couldn't have been the only reason Cotto lost. They are too small to make that big a difference. A small difference sure, but not the whole thing.

The handwraps gave Margarito two advantages.

1) The obvious. The punches had more of an effect, even if it was a minor effect.

2) More importantly, the wraps gave Margarito a huge psychological advantage. Similar to someone using steroids, they have extremely high determination knowing that they have an advantage over their opponent. A placebo effect in a sense.

None of that belies the fact that Cotto landed a lot on Margo, yet could not hurt him or stop him.

but he was winning the fight and could have probably survived and won a decision.

powerpuncher wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:

Shaun wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:I think Capetillo used tainted wraps & Margarito knew it. The first fight was a combination of Cotto not being effective going backwards, running out of gas & Margo having a great beard. The wraps that Cotto had pictures of couldn't have been the only reason Cotto lost. They are too small to make that big a difference. A small difference sure, but not the whole thing.

The handwraps gave Margarito two advantages.

1) The obvious. The punches had more of an effect, even if it was a minor effect.

2) More importantly, the wraps gave Margarito a huge psychological advantage. Similar to someone using steroids, they have extremely high determination knowing that they have an advantage over their opponent. A placebo effect in a sense.

None of that belies the fact that Cotto landed a lot on Margo, yet could not hurt him or stop him.

but he was winning the fight and could have probably survived and won a decision.

I guarantee Margarito would have applied LESS pressure and threw LESS punches had he not had plaster put into his gloves. He felt more POWERFUL because of this, therefore he fought with more determination.

I think the 2nd fight proved that. The fights were nearly identical... minus the hand wraps. Margarito only had two rounds to do something dramatic, it wasn't going to happen because Cotto was successfully putting leverage on Margarito, neutralizing his pressure.

flapanther2001 wrote:

Shaun wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:I think Capetillo used tainted wraps & Margarito knew it. The first fight was a combination of Cotto not being effective going backwards, running out of gas & Margo having a great beard. The wraps that Cotto had pictures of couldn't have been the only reason Cotto lost. They are too small to make that big a difference. A small difference sure, but not the whole thing.

The handwraps gave Margarito two advantages.

1) The obvious. The punches had more of an effect, even if it was a minor effect.

2) More importantly, the wraps gave Margarito a huge psychological advantage. Similar to someone using steroids, they have extremely high determination knowing that they have an advantage over their opponent. A placebo effect in a sense.

None of that belies the fact that Cotto landed a lot on Margo, yet could not hurt him or stop him.

But getting hit with tainted wraps could have gassed him sooner than if the wraps had not been tainted. The only person I've ever seen slow Margarito down was Shane. Even though Manny beat him shitless Margarito was still pouring it on late. Had Margarito been taking Cotto's punishment sans wraps past the sixth the fight may have looked more like the Pacquiao fight.

Margo has won 2 rds at the most vs world class fighters since getting caught. Thats all the evidence i need right there.

powerpuncher wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:

Shaun wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:I think Capetillo used tainted wraps & Margarito knew it. The first fight was a combination of Cotto not being effective going backwards, running out of gas & Margo having a great beard. The wraps that Cotto had pictures of couldn't have been the only reason Cotto lost. They are too small to make that big a difference. A small difference sure, but not the whole thing.

The handwraps gave Margarito two advantages.

1) The obvious. The punches had more of an effect, even if it was a minor effect.

2) More importantly, the wraps gave Margarito a huge psychological advantage. Similar to someone using steroids, they have extremely high determination knowing that they have an advantage over their opponent. A placebo effect in a sense.

None of that belies the fact that Cotto landed a lot on Margo, yet could not hurt him or stop him.

but he was winning the fight and could have probably survived and won a decision.

The fight was close, but I agree if the wraps were tainted, Margo had an advantage. Now, if Cotto had better legs, he could have avoided more of Margo's shots, like Manny did.

SlickMoney wrote:Margo has won 2 rds at the most vs world class fighters since getting caught. Thats all the evidence i need right there.

The Margarito befor Jan 09 would have still lost to those two Hall Of Famer's.

In my opinion, yes he did cheat in the first fight.
He has been nothing but a bum since he got caught against Mosely.