Re: Rios has become another undisciplined Lightweight champion.

**UBeeg9cats** Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:47 pm

hardcorebee24 wrote:
captainanddew wrote:Rios didn't make weight because his body won't go down to 135 anymore. That is my guess. A guy that weighs upward of 150 in the ring shouldn't be trying to weigh in as low as 135. I blame Rios, his trainer, his manager, and his promoter for allowing him to continue fighting at an unreasonable weight.

But it goes to 136.5??? No way it doesnt go to 135. They fucked up. They just blew this and the Gamboa fight.

There comes a point that your body just doesn't lose anymore. I read a rumor Rios hasn't eaten in 5 days which HOPEFULLY is a complete and utter lie but really puts in perspective what someone like Rios might do to shrink down to a weight he shouldn't compete at. I'm looking forward to him at 140. Bring on Rios-Alvarado!!!!!!

Diego408 Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:06 pm

hardcorebee24 wrote:
Diego408 wrote: All the guys you listed are lengthy, while Rios is solid all around, so hes a physically bigger than all of them. His fight night weight says it all.

On another note, I always get lost with fighters heights. Guerrero claims hes 5'9, but is listed at 5'8. Mosley is listed at 5'8 or 5'9 at different times, Cotto lists at 5'7 or 5'8 sometimes. Maidana was listed against Ortiz and Cayo at 5'7, but 5'9 is what Boxrec has him at.

and I disagree with blaming the trainer, thats just ridicules. Rios is to blame, its his body and hes a professional.

Do you mean slender? Rios is doughy. If you knew more than just what you've learned on a message board you would know that a trainer's responsibility is not just workout plans, strategy and technique but also the condition of his fighter and their weight and monitoring that weight and what they're eating, drinking, how much they're sleeping etc throughout the fighters entire camp. So yes I blame Garcia for concentrating on a money fighter in Margarito and not his own homegrown talent, they're in the fucking Mexican mountains how much could Rios do without Garcia knowing about it? Oh wait when he went to New York with Margarito to check on his eye he left Rios to his own devices. That whole eye thing is a fucking distraction and Rios didn't make weight because Garcia was distracted.

Theres way too many holes in your arguement. Rios is not only a professional, but hes a champion whos been in this sport along time. He knows his reponsibilities as a fighter and weight is one of the primary ones. Would you blame James Toney's trainer for him being a fat fuck? I think you would by your reasoning and you'll be compeltely wrong again. Trainers like Nacho and Roach have a handful of fighters to keep eyes on and you dont hear same the shit happening or not even another one of Garcia's fighters for instance. This is Brandons fault. Hes been pushing it for years, hes always been too big for the division and its been obvious since he fought Peterson.

I know youre a Rios nuthugger, but please blaming only Garcia makes you a joke.

**UBeeg9cats** Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:58 pm

The other point to make on a fighter coming in overweight is why struggle to make weight anymore? Fighters and their great records are an order of magnitude greater of importance to belts anymore. Rios has built a name and reputation. He will get a big fight at 140 but he would take a hit for coming in drained and losing to Murray. It is much better for him to lose the belt and come in comfortable to dominate Murray.

SlickMoney Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:00 pm

I think Captain is right. Looking at Rios at the weigh-in tells me he cant shed anymore pounds. I dont think discipline has anything to do with why he didnt make weight.

Gumby Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:11 pm

UBeeg9cats wrote:The other point to make on a fighter coming in overweight is why struggle to make weight anymore? Fighters and their great records are an order of magnitude greater of importance to belts anymore. Rios has built a name and reputation. He will get a big fight at 140 but he would take a hit for coming in drained and losing to Murray. It is much better for him to lose the belt and come in comfortable to dominate Murray.

Exactly. Next question, who do you guys want to see Rios fight at 140?

I vote for Judah or Morales. If it's Morales he gets another shot at a trinket.

**UBeeg9cats** Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:35 pm

Gumby wrote:
UBeeg9cats wrote:The other point to make on a fighter coming in overweight is why struggle to make weight anymore? Fighters and their great records are an order of magnitude greater of importance to belts anymore. Rios has built a name and reputation. He will get a big fight at 140 but he would take a hit for coming in drained and losing to Murray. It is much better for him to lose the belt and come in comfortable to dominate Murray.
Exactly. Next question, who do you guys want to see Rios fight at 140?

I vote for Judah or Morales. If it's Morales he gets another shot at a trinket.

I really like the idea of Alvarado. I think it could be for a vacant belt because Khan and Bradley might vacate soon.

**captainanddew** Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:51 pm

I'm very interested in Rios at 140 against similar sized guys. Watching the Acosta fight there was a point early where it looked like Rios's chin was going to cave. It didn't. But what happens when he is facing guys who are his size and he is getting hit with bombs for 4-5 rounds?

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:20 pm

Diego408 wrote:

Theres way too many holes in your arguement. Rios is not only a professional, but hes a champion whos been in this sport along time. He knows his reponsibilities as a fighter and weight is one of the primary ones. Would you blame James Toney's trainer for him being a fat fuck? I think you would by your reasoning and you'll be compeltely wrong again. Trainers like Nacho and Roach have a handful of fighters to keep eyes on and you dont hear same the shit happening or not even another one of Garcia's fighters for instance. This is Brandons fault. Hes been pushing it for years, hes always been too big for the division and its been obvious since he fought Peterson.

I know youre a Rios nuthugger, but please blaming only Garcia makes you a joke.

What holes are there in my argument? Holes? This isn't a fact or fiction argument for there to be holes. This is me making a point about training philosophy. I wouldn't blame a light heavyweights trainer for that light heavyweight coming in fifty or sixty pounds overweight to the beginning of camp. If you tell me Rios did that then I'll blame Rios This is different because Rios doesn't blow up like Toney did. Compare apples to apples in your arguments, this is apples and oranges. Furthermore, Roach and Nacho have hired strength and conditioning coaches that closely monitor Roach and Nacho's fighters weights and progress because like you said they have a stable of fighters to look after now. If he's been pushing it for years who's been suggesting him to do so? If he should have been at 140 why didn't Garcia and Dunkin know this? Because they thought he could make the weight. They were talking about a Gamboa fight at 135 after this fight. This wasn't to be his last fight at 135.

I like the fighter and I criticize where I see fit, I don't see it fit to put the blame on Rios.

Diego408 Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:33 pm

Rios does blow up. There's pictures he took with Marquez and Mikey Garcia that shows he's shot up a lot of pounds from the Antillion bout. Margarito came in amazing shape yesterday, but Rios didn't. So what's your thoughts on that? And it's an easy answer, Margarito is the more disciplined fighter. Margarito is also the one going through the many distractions as the world claims he's a cheat and had a problems acquiring a boxing license. You can't blame the trainers for their fighters weigh in failures. It's on the fighter. Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales and Nate Campbell all got full blame when they couldn't make weight, and no one ever mentioned their trainers. These guys are grown men not boys and professionals of the sport for years. They know what they have to do. Your argument of blaming Rios's Weigh inn fuck up on Garcia is just plain stupid.

**GrantZilla** Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Brandon Rios vs Urbano Antillon weigh-in pictures
GrantZilla on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 3:50 pm

GrantZilla wrote:
Does Rios have problems making weight? He looks really underweight.

Ali wrote:
I keep hearing the Rios struggles to get down to Lightweight.

Yeah, he looks depleted. He should think about moving to Jr Welter at the least.

Brandon Rios vs Urbano Antillon weigh-in pictures
captainanddew on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 5:21 pm

.Rios struggles to make weight yet his body never looks hard at the weigh in..

Diego408 Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:49 pm

Yeah even against Antillon he had problems with the scale, but according to Softcore that's all Garcia's fault.

nano212 Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:23 pm

The Rios fight is still on for tonight! He could not weigh 10 pounds over what he weighed yesterday at the weigh in! He weighed 146.5

"Rios's Manger Cameron Dunkin was angry when he found out Rios hadn't eaten for 5 days literally and had 4 oz of water 2 days ago. Stupid- FAT DANS TWITTER

**dmar5143** Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:26 pm

rios weighed 146.5 at 9 am today at a weigh inn.fight night hell do 150.151.

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:37 pm

Diego408 wrote:Rios does blow up. There's pictures he took with Marquez and Mikey Garcia that shows he's shot up a lot of pounds from the Antillion bout. Margarito came in amazing shape yesterday, but Rios didn't. So what's your thoughts on that? And it's an easy answer, Margarito is the more disciplined fighter. Margarito is also the one going through the many distractions as the world claims he's a cheat and had a problems acquiring a boxing license. You can't blame the trainers for their fighters weigh in failures. It's on the fighter. Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales and Nate Campbell all got full blame when they couldn't make weight, and no one ever mentioned their trainers. These guys are grown men not boys and professionals of the sport for years. They know what they have to do. Your argument of blaming Rios's Weigh inn fuck up on Garcia is just plain stupid.

Message board trainer Diego. Good job buddy. Call me when you get a clue. Your experience entails message board's and social media. If you're ever in NY I can introduce you to trainers and coach's who might show you a thing or two or explain to you the responsibilities of trainers and coaches.

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:39 pm

Diego408 wrote:Yeah even against Antillon he had problems with the scale, but according to Softcore that's all Garcia's fault.

If he had problems in that fight why would the trainer and the manager have him fight at the weight again? He's listening to their instruction. He's not the smartest guy in the world.

Diego408 Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:47 pm

I know boxing trainers and coaches, they have them in California too Einstein. I like how you act like you know so much more than I do, you're a joke. Garcia did all he could to keep his guy in shape, he was able to get him low enough to only be a little over a half pound over at one point. And I know trainers help their fighters stay in shape (Capetillo for example), but they can only do so much. And again you're a joke for solely trying to blame Garcia for Rios's weight failure.

Diego408 Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:48 pm

hardcorebee24 wrote:
Diego408 wrote:Yeah even against Antillon he had problems with the scale, but according to Softcore that's all Garcia's fault.

If he had problems in that fight why would the trainer and the manager have him fight at the weight again? He's listening to their instruction. He's not the smartest guy in the world.

And so aren't you.

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:58 pm

Diego408 wrote:
hardcorebee24 wrote:
Diego408 wrote:Yeah even against Antillon he had problems with the scale, but according to Softcore that's all Garcia's fault.

If he had problems in that fight why would the trainer and the manager have him fight at the weight again? He's listening to their instruction. He's not the smartest guy in the world.
And so aren't you.

And so arent you??? Ok, lol that says it all.

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:00 pm

Diego408 wrote:I know boxing trainers and coaches, they have them in California too Einstein. I like how you act like you know so much more than I do, you're a joke. Garcia did all he could to keep his guy in shape, he was able to get him low enough to only be a little over a half pound over at one point. And I know trainers help their fighters stay in shape (Capetillo for example), but they can only do so much. And again you're a joke for solely trying to blame Garcia for Rios's weight failure.

Ok pal.

Diego408 Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:01 pm

hardcorebee24 wrote:
Diego408 wrote:
hardcorebee24 wrote:
Diego408 wrote:Yeah even against Antillon he had problems with the scale, but according to Softcore that's all Garcia's fault.

If he had problems in that fight why would the trainer and the manager have him fight at the weight again? He's listening to their instruction. He's not the smartest guy in the world.
And so aren't you.

And so arent you??? Ok, lol that says it all.

Spell check on the iPhone, but you know what I meant. Obviously you lost the arguement, but you can settle for this.

**captainanddew** Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:07 pm

don't go off trading insults if at all possible.

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:21 pm

Diego408 wrote:
hardcorebee24 wrote:
Diego408 wrote:
hardcorebee24 wrote:
Diego408 wrote:Yeah even against Antillon he had problems with the scale, but according to Softcore that's all Garcia's fault.

If he had problems in that fight why would the trainer and the manager have him fight at the weight again? He's listening to their instruction. He's not the smartest guy in the world.
And so aren't you.

And so arent you??? Ok, lol that says it all.
Spell check on the iPhone, but you know what I meant. Obviously you lost the arguement, but you can settle for this.

Does iPhone spell check change grammar and linguistics to make them incorrect? "Neither are you" would have been appropriate.

I didn't lose any argument. You avoided all of the examples of responsibility that I put on Dunkin and Garcia. You called them ridiculous. You cited Toney as a comparison, when I explained that Toney being a Lt Heavy who was 60 lbs overweight was a bad example you said it wasn't. I pointed to my knowledge and experience in gyms and knowing trainers and working out as an example you responded with there being gyms in California too. I'm sure there are and after having this conversation I'm now sure you don't frequent them. Again I say, why would Garcia and Dunkin put an overweight fighter in at a weight he can't make? To teach him a lesson? They'r supposed to make a judgement call here and they obviously didn't.

Diego408 Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:29 pm

OMG Theyre is no reasoning with you. All my argument to yours made perfect sense. I put out other example of fighters catching heat for not making weight instead of their trainers and you ignored them completely. What's your stance on Guzman? So his weight failures arent his fault either? Their his trainers right. I also know amateur boxers and they stay on a strict diets. You can train someone but if they aren't eating healthy it all goes to waste. Making weight and gaining muscle is all on someone's diet. And obviously they keep him at lightweight because hes a champion at lightweight, duh. Expect him to move up after this fight.

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:39 pm

Diego408 wrote:OMG Theyre is no reasoning with you. All my argument to yours made perfect sense. I put out other example of fighters catching heat for not making weight instead of their trainers and you ignored them completely. What's your stance on Guzman? So his weight failures arent his fault either? Their his trainers right. I also know amateur boxers and they stay on a strict diets. You can train someone but if they aren't eating healthy it all goes to waste. Making weight and gaining muscle is all on someone's diet. And obviously they keep him at lightweight because hes a champion at lightweight, duh. Expect him to move up after this fight.

Have you ever watched these documentaries when fighters are in camp? Their trainers are monitoring everything they do. Sleep, food, exercise, technique and strategy. A lot of times they show them eating together. From Jermaine Taylor to Shane Mosely to Floyd. Naz Hamed eats with is fighters so does Manny Steward. During camp the trainer spends all of his time with his fighter. They were in the Mountains in Mexico how could Rios fuck this up? Was he sneaking snickers bars into camp? So again I say that Garcia has his fighter isolated and looked after and the guy still didn't make weight and evidently was way off on weight where he had to suck down completely. This isn't the first time I've questioned Garcia's methods. He should have stopped the fight with Pacquiao too. In my opinion he's shown twice where his decisions are questionable.

hardcorebee24 Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:48 pm

"He's been in a colder climate than he's used to and that probably hurt him trying to make weight," Carl Moretti of Top Rank, Rios' promoter, said of the Southern California fighter. "He's a big 135-pounder. He just couldn't get down. The question is what happens Saturday night and in the future? I think it's too soon to say that he's done at 135 but he could be. We'll have to talk about with him and his team, see if maybe he went about making weight the wrong way. But he looked drained, very drained.

Carl Moretti blaming the trainer and the methods as well. I'll bet it wasn't Rios' idea to train in the Mexican mountians.

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