Who was that guy in the ring last night?

That's not the Manny Pac I know. Even before he improved, and yes he did that, he was more effective than he was last night. I won't try and figure out why he stunk up the joint last night. I'll just say that what ever is causing him to give these mediocre efforts needs to be erased from his life. Maybe he's been in too many wars. Who knows? But that's not the guy who caught the imagination of the boxing world. My opinion.

He gave Marque too much respect I think. With that said I still think it was a close fight that could have went either way.

kbyte wrote:He gave Marque too much respect I think. With that said I still think it was a close fight that could have went either way.

from boxing writer ron borges on ringtv.com:

. Meanwhile, a number of ringside observers saw Marquez winning 116-112 and as much as 117-112.


When Pacquiao’s trainer, Freddie Roach, was asked in the ring if he agreed his fighter had beaten Marquez again he waited for a moment before answering.

“The fight was close,’’ Roach said. “It was very close.’’

Not really. Not unless you brought a pencil to ringside with you.

Later he would say he felt his man pulled it out in the last two rounds while also conceding “it could have gone either way.’’ As endorsements go, it wasn’t exactly a ringing one.

Frank wrote:That's not the Manny Pac I know. Even before he improved, and yes he did that, he was more effective than he was last night. I won't try and figure out why he stunk up the joint last night. I'll just say that what ever is causing him to give these mediocre efforts needs to be erased from his life. Maybe he's been in too many wars. Who knows? But that's not the guy who caught the imagination of the boxing world. My opinion.

when he faces Marquez he looks like that. There aren't many truly elite craftsman in the game and Marquez is one of them.

He has been facing guys that aren't that hard to hit: Hatton, Cotto, Cheato. Guys that are past it: Mosley and ODH. And a guy who can't return fire at all: Clottey.

Does he have trouble with guys who fight well going backwards?

Among his recent victories I would say Cotto is the best boxer, but he is known for pressing forward and wearing guys down. Everyone else came to him.

Pac looked a little confused about how to pressure Marquez. He switched from chasing him and putting himself out of position and becoming more passive a la Victor Ortiz.

Gumby wrote:Does he have trouble with guys who fight well going backwards?

Among his recent victories I would say Cotto is the best boxer, but he is known for pressing forward and wearing guys down. Everyone else came to him.

Pac looked a little confused about how to pressure Marquez. He switched from chasing him and putting himself out of position and becoming more passive a la Victor Ortiz.

He can't fight a guy that can go backwards or laterally well. Marquez does both though he goes backwards more often. Floyd will go backwards, laterally, shoulder roll, switch up offense with jab/straight right lead/check hook lead, and befuddle Manny.

Let's just say that last night got me thinking for the first time that Manny wasn't being benevolent by letting Cotto, Margo and Mosley escape more punishment when they got on their back pedal. That might just not be part of his game.

If anyone has time, I'd love to see a break down of his punch output after his last few fights. I wonder how much it drops when guys run from him.

Effective punching is what won Marquez the fight. I said 7-5, just to give Manny some respect, but my card really was 8-4 Marquez (9-3 is reasonable too). No one thought Pacquaio won at my house or on my twitter and facebook timeline besides one guy that I know.

Manny landed more, but he was smoothering his punches! He couldnt land clean punches on Marquez. Marquez was by far the more effective puncher and made Manny miss a whole lot. On this site and home, like at round 8 I said Marquez would be robbed, exactly that happened. The judging was obviously biased. I felt so bad for Marquez, the man never gets his fair shake. Marquez clearly won, but he really lost because of Mayweather.

But I just think Manny looked like shit because Marquez knows how to fight him. Pacquiao couldnt land that left hand. Marquez knew his every move.

Diego408 wrote:Effective punching is what won Marquez the fight. I said 7-5, just to give Manny some respect, but my card really was 8-4 Marquez (9-3 is reasonable too). No one thought Pacquaio won at my house or on my twitter and facebook timeline besides one guy that I know.

Manny landed more, but he was smoothering his punches! He couldnt land clean punches on Marquez. Marquez was by far the more effective puncher and made Manny miss a whole lot. On this site and home, like at round 8 I said Marquez would be robbed, exactly that happened. The judging was obviously biased. I felt so bad for Marquez, the man never gets his fair shake. Marquez clearly won, but he really lost because of Mayweather.

But I just think Manny looked like shit because Marquez knows how to fight him. Pacquiao couldnt land that left hand. Marquez knew his every move.

how did the people who had the fight for Pac, have the fight after 6 rounds? That is my question. I just can't fathom how 2 judges had Marquez down 4 rounds to 2 at the midway point.

gumby marquez didnt run.he held his ground and move a step or two back if needed but not running.ive said that pac cannot beat a complete fighter.floyd is that.marquez is that outside of a rios type pressure moving foward.he does it with one step only..example after seeing all 3 marquez fights ill state pac will lose 8 or 9 out of ten times against a very good complete fighter at his best not washed up.kid gavilin would give him fits.so would leanard.so would lius rodriguez emile griffith.
his ring IQ went out the window last night.did nothing to adapt.freddie roach deep in his heart knows he lost.so does pac..

captain at best for pac it was 4-2 marquez after 6.

captainanddew wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Effective punching is what won Marquez the fight. I said 7-5, just to give Manny some respect, but my card really was 8-4 Marquez (9-3 is reasonable too). No one thought Pacquaio won at my house or on my twitter and facebook timeline besides one guy that I know.

Manny landed more, but he was smoothering his punches! He couldnt land clean punches on Marquez. Marquez was by far the more effective puncher and made Manny miss a whole lot. On this site and home, like at round 8 I said Marquez would be robbed, exactly that happened. The judging was obviously biased. I felt so bad for Marquez, the man never gets his fair shake. Marquez clearly won, but he really lost because of Mayweather.

But I just think Manny looked like shit because Marquez knows how to fight him. Pacquiao couldnt land that left hand. Marquez knew his every move.

how did the people who had the fight for Pac, have the fight after 6 rounds? That is my question. I just can't fathom how 2 judges had Marquez down 4 rounds to 2 at the midway point.

I wouldnt take a casual fan seriously lol Everyone jumped on that guys post and everyone was talking crap to him. His reason was Pacquiao won because of the Professional Judges only know how to score a fight (BS arguement). But after round 5 I came to this site to check if I was the only one scoring most rounds for Marquez, and I was glad to see we had similar scorecards.

I know we say close fights arent robberies, but when a guy clealy wins at least 7 rounds and the other guy gets the decision, biased scoring was involved. People have jumped on me for calling the other fights robberies because they were close, but these biased judges justify scorecards by making them close. Boxing judges have questionable integrity. Its impossible to say, they score fights like this completely unbiased.

Bottom line with Marquez is he's back in the picture. All the fights I thought he should've taken in place of this one will come his way now. He'll do great against the winner of "Ortiz - Berto", "Khan" or nearly anyone else but MW. No matter who you think won the fight, nobody will doubt that Marquez was the winner as far as reputation is concerned.

That was Manny Pac. No longer did he have a past his prime, no chin, no defense, faded, non swinging, drained corpse in the ring with him.

we see the truth that pac cant adapt well. it was a bad style match up for him but also i have always said that i dont really rate pac and JMM much different all time at this point in their careers. both have dominated and shown a ton of heart and skill. for me, marquez has won all 3 fights.

Diego408 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Effective punching is what won Marquez the fight. I said 7-5, just to give Manny some respect, but my card really was 8-4 Marquez (9-3 is reasonable too). No one thought Pacquaio won at my house or on my twitter and facebook timeline besides one guy that I know.

Manny landed more, but he was smoothering his punches! He couldnt land clean punches on Marquez. Marquez was by far the more effective puncher and made Manny miss a whole lot. On this site and home, like at round 8 I said Marquez would be robbed, exactly that happened. The judging was obviously biased. I felt so bad for Marquez, the man never gets his fair shake. Marquez clearly won, but he really lost because of Mayweather.

But I just think Manny looked like shit because Marquez knows how to fight him. Pacquiao couldnt land that left hand. Marquez knew his every move.

how did the people who had the fight for Pac, have the fight after 6 rounds? That is my question. I just can't fathom how 2 judges had Marquez down 4 rounds to 2 at the midway point.

I wouldnt take a casual fan seriously lol Everyone jumped on that guys post and everyone was talking crap to him. His reason was Pacquiao won because of the Professional Judges only know how to score a fight (BS arguement). But after round 5 I came to this site to check if I was the only one scoring most rounds for Marquez, and I was glad to see we had similar scorecards.

I know we say close fights arent robberies, but when a guy clealy wins at least 7 rounds and the other guy gets the decision, biased scoring was involved. People have jumped on me for calling the other fights robberies because they were close, but these biased judges justify scorecards by making them close. Boxing judges have questionable integrity. Its impossible to say, they score fights like this completely unbiased.

i think what makes a fight a robbery is when rounds are given to the fighter that clearly lost the rounds. i said that if you gave pac the close rounds then i could see a draw. no way that pac won 8 rounds. there were at least 6 that JMM won without question which is why i say that you could score it a draw if you gave pac all of the other rounds. thats what makes it a robbery is because you are giving rounds to pac that JMM clearly won.

dmar5143 wrote:gumby marquez didnt run.he held his ground and move a step or two back if needed but not running.ive said that pac cannot beat a complete fighter.floyd is that.marquez is that outside of a rios type pressure moving foward.he does it with one step only..example after seeing all 3 marquez fights ill state pac will lose 8 or 9 out of ten times against a very good complete fighter at his best not washed up.kid gavilin would give him fits.so would leanard.so would lius rodriguez emile griffith.
his ring IQ went out the window last night.did nothing to adapt.freddie roach deep in his heart knows he lost.so does pac..

Marquez didn't run at all. Those other guys did though and Pac didn't stop them (Cotto should've ended much earlier). I had thought that he didn't stop them because he didn't want to not because he couldn't. That's all I meant.

captainanddew wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Effective punching is what won Marquez the fight. I said 7-5, just to give Manny some respect, but my card really was 8-4 Marquez (9-3 is reasonable too). No one thought Pacquaio won at my house or on my twitter and facebook timeline besides one guy that I know.

Manny landed more, but he was smoothering his punches! He couldnt land clean punches on Marquez. Marquez was by far the more effective puncher and made Manny miss a whole lot. On this site and home, like at round 8 I said Marquez would be robbed, exactly that happened. The judging was obviously biased. I felt so bad for Marquez, the man never gets his fair shake. Marquez clearly won, but he really lost because of Mayweather.

But I just think Manny looked like shit because Marquez knows how to fight him. Pacquiao couldnt land that left hand. Marquez knew his every move.

how did the people who had the fight for Pac, have the fight after 6 rounds? That is my question. I just can't fathom how 2 judges had Marquez down 4 rounds to 2 at the midway point.

I think I had him 4-2 but I told my friends it could be even.

I just don't think Pac is a good pressure fighter. Even though he's not a counter puncher, he's at his best when guys try and bring the fight to him. He seems to be at his best when he's relying on his instincts and doesn't have to think in the ring. He's a Reggie Bush/Devin Hester type. Brilliant talent but it's hard to figure out how to adapt his skills to a traditional offense.

Gumby wrote:I just don't think Pac is a good pressure fighter. Even though he's not a counter puncher, he's at his best when guys try and bring the fight to him. He seems to be at his best when he's relying on his instincts and doesn't have to think in the ring. He's a Reggie Bush/Devin Hester type. Brilliant talent but it's hard to figure out how to adapt his skills to a traditional offense.

That is a great point. I think you are right.

Gumby wrote:I just don't think Pac is a good pressure fighter. Even though he's not a counter puncher, he's at his best when guys try and bring the fight to him. He seems to be at his best when he's relying on his instincts and doesn't have to think in the ring. He's a Reggie Bush/Devin Hester type. Brilliant talent but it's hard to figure out how to adapt his skills to a traditional offense.

He's a great pressure fighter, he's just not good when there are jabs, hooks, straights and crosses in his face every time he puts on the pressure.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Gumby wrote:I just don't think Pac is a good pressure fighter. Even though he's not a counter puncher, he's at his best when guys try and bring the fight to him. He seems to be at his best when he's relying on his instincts and doesn't have to think in the ring. He's a Reggie Bush/Devin Hester type. Brilliant talent but it's hard to figure out how to adapt his skills to a traditional offense.

He's a great pressure fighter, he's just not good when there are jabs, hooks, straights and crosses in his face every time he puts on the pressure.

Pac when hit on saturday, did alot of resetting and alot of bouncing. And he does that weird thing where he raises his arms up high and then gets back into fighting position.



Does anyone else believe that Pac thought he was going to walk through Marquez? Even in the other 2 fights he didn't appear so befuddled. It was almost like he didn't believe Marquez didn't wilt any time he hit him.

Overconfident? Listening too much to Roach and the press saying it was a mismatch?

Too used to bigger slower guys???

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Gumby wrote:I just don't think Pac is a good pressure fighter. Even though he's not a counter puncher, he's at his best when guys try and bring the fight to him. He seems to be at his best when he's relying on his instincts and doesn't have to think in the ring. He's a Reggie Bush/Devin Hester type. Brilliant talent but it's hard to figure out how to adapt his skills to a traditional offense.

He's a great pressure fighter, he's just not good when there are jabs, hooks, straights and crosses in his face every time he puts on the pressure.

Pac when hit on saturday, did alot of resetting and alot of bouncing. And he does that weird thing where he raises his arms up high and then gets back into fighting position.



Does anyone else believe that Pac thought he was going to walk through Marquez? Even in the other 2 fights he didn't appear so befuddled. It was almost like he didn't believe Marquez didn't wilt any time he hit him.

Overconfident? Listening too much to Roach and the press saying it was a mismatch?

Too used to bigger slower guys???

Yes, Ariza saying it wouldn't go six and Freddie calling Pacquiao "A Machine that will execute" I believe has a lot to do with what we saw on Saturday. On paper Pacquiao should have steamrolled Marquez. They underestimated Marquez skill and preparedness. Pacquiao should give him an immediate rematch. Fight Floyd next year.