Mike Tyson: No "Hall of Fame" fighter.

If the 5th best HW of his era, Tyson, gets into the HOF, that must've been one helluva an era. Though I lived it and thought it was very exciting, I don't recall it being as effective as the 70's HW era. Holyfield, Foreman (Who Tyson ran from), Lennox Lewis (Who Don King paid 6 million to stay away from Tyson) and Bowe (Lucky for Tyson, they never fought during Bowe's prime) were all more effective HW's than Mike Tyson.

Tyson is a good highlight film. He fought frightened and overmatched opponents beautifully. Too bad he didn't like to get hit back. He might've made a decent HW. LOL. Since Tyson was the most exciting HW of the 80s and 90s and reality is a slave to perception, it's almost impossible to count on the boxing press having the intelligence or the guts to keep him out. As Floyd Mayweather just proved, it pays to duck dangerous opponents. In the long run, most people forget the "little things." Bottom line: Is Mike Tyson a HOF fighter? Hell no!

I agree 100%.

hes up this year in eligabilty and will be voted in.thats not the issue here but giving our thoughts is he a legit hofamer..lets toss out the fact that the hall has perhaps 3 HWS in it that do not belong...thoses mistakes of the past should not cloud our reasoning..during his career the peak years the near peak years and the final years he faced in my mind adversity 6 times and failed 6 times.many sports writers seem to overlook that..would i vote for him this year or next year.nope.in the future after that..either a maybe or a week probably..i feel hes a boarderline case..

See the thing about the HOF is, at what point do you start dropping the standards?

I think everyone will admit the game isn't what it used to be. Fighters aren't going to have the same opportunities to build amazing records or fight the kind of competition you see on the resumes of the greats from the past - there simply aren't enough fights or fighters period.

So you have to compare guys to their contemporaries. Which of the other heavies of Tyson's era are HOF'ers? Holyfield probably, but that's also on his accomplishments at Cruiser. Lewis maybe. Obviously Foreman but that's a unique situation. Not Bowe.

Tyson is an icon, no question, and based on that alone I think he makes it to HOF.

A couple of thoughts.
-No heavyweight THE MAN champion is NOT in the IBHOF.
-Like it or not the heavyweight championship carries more weight than any other crown in boxing. It just does.

Now one way of looking at things is to say "If Mike Tyson were in any other division and, was a THE MAN champion with only two defenses, an immensley feared puncher and lost to 3 other guys in his division while arguably in his prime would he get in?"

Well here are a few names for you. Pipino Cuevas, Lew Jenkins, Rocky Graziano, Danny Lopez, Bobo Olson and Daniel Zaragoza.

I'm NOT trying to make the argument that we are bound by the mistakes of the HOF, by guys like Rosario and Norton and McGuigan. But the six names above I think are NOT mistakes and Tyson sort of fits in in terms of accomplishment with guys like that doesn't he?

In any case my guess is this is one of the great moot points ever discussed.

marble leon spinks and canera both the man champ are not in the hall...hart isnt either.wheather he was the man is debateable.

your point on the other fighters like olson graziano are interesting..like you say its moot..mike will be voted in..i dont have a problem with that but it will happen.i wish though it took a few years over the first ballot but its a wish not reality.

dmar5143 wrote:marble leon spinks and canera both the man champ are not in the hall...hart isnt either.wheather he was the man is debateable.

I stand corrected.

marbleheadmaui wrote:A couple of thoughts.
-No heavyweight THE MAN champion is NOT in the IBHOF.
-Like it or not the heavyweight championship carries more weight than any other crown in boxing. It just does.

Now one way of looking at things is to say "If Mike Tyson were in any other division and, was a THE MAN champion with only two defenses, an immensley feared puncher and lost to 3 other guys in his division while arguably in his prime would he get in?"

Well here are a few names for you. Pipino Cuevas, Lew Jenkins, Rocky Graziano, Danny Lopez, Bobo Olson and Daniel Zaragoza.I'm NOT trying to make the argument that we are bound by the mistakes of the HOF, by guys like Rosario and Norton and McGuigan. But the six names above I think are NOT mistakes and Tyson sort of fits in in terms of accomplishment with guys like that doesn't he?

In any case my guess is this is one of the great moot points ever discussed.

Marble, first off, it is a mute point. Mike is getting in though not because of our votes. We don't have a say. The Boxing Press does. Honestly, they are not as qualified as some of us are to make those decisions.

Also, I know a little about some of the fighters you mentioned. When I compare them to Tyson, the words "Guts", "Scrapper" and "Endurance" come to mind. Rocky Graziano and Bobo Olson were both stopped by Ray Robinson. In my opinion, when considering a fighter for the HOF, all losses to Sugar Ray must be ignored. He beat everyone. However, Graziano showed a fighter's heart in his 3 bouts with Tony Zale. Bobo Olson, though a horrible husband (Had 2 families living 2 blocks from each other. I wonder how many guys screwed around with his wives. LOL) was a formidable MW champ who had some tough fights and proved his worth.

Cuevas? Well, the WW division of the 80's consisted of Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Benitez. If a fighter can make a name for himself in the midst of that insane greatness, he should be in the hall. Fighters that didn't belong to that elite group of 80's WWs mentioned above felt their bones crack when challenging Cuevas. And yes, he was a brave warrior king.

Rosario? He stopped Livington Bramble in two rounds. I felt that in itself was an underrated accomplishment considering that Bramble stopped both Mancini and Tyrone Crawly. Rosario also changed the life of Hector Camacho. Sure, his was out fought by Jose Luis Ramirez and Julio Chavez but styles make fights. I think that if Chavez and Ramirez were Heavyweights, they would've had Tyson screaming for his life. Bottom line? Those guys are tough. Tyson's not.

I like Lopez in the Hall. He was a dominant champion until he was out boxed by Salvador Sanchez. No, he wasn't the best FW champ, but he was a skill, brains and guts fighter. He just lacked the skills to take on Sanchez. So did a lot of great fighters (See Wilfredo Gomez).

My feelings on Tyson are the following: He never beat a HW in his prime who approached greatness. I recall when Tyson fought the limited but fearless "Tony Tucker." Afterwards, Mike thought Tucker was a special fighter. "If Michael Spinks fights Tony Tucker, I'll fight him." Who was Tony Tucker? A very limited HW who qualified as a top notch sparring partner for a real world class HW. Why did Tyson respect him so much? He was a big guy who wasn't scared of him. Guts is all that Tucker had going for him, however, it was almost enough against Tyson. Mike's biggest win was over a blown up LH (Michael Spinks). I personally think that the KO's against Frank Bruno may have been his most impressive pair of victories.

When challenging the elite of his division, Tyson fails miserably. Holyfield beat him within an inch of his life. Foreman scared him within 2 inches of his life. Lewis could've retired off of the money he was paid to stay away from so called "Iron Mike." Also, if you ask me, Mike was damn lucky he was in prison when Riddick Bowe was going to war with Evander. I think his prison years had the opposite effect on his career that Ali's 3 year exile had on his. Ali had his best years in front of him. However, iron bars protected Mike from fighting Bowe and Holyfield in his prime. He would've been knocked out and his stock would've plummeted. Since he was protected from these guys, he became somewhat of a "legend" while locked up. By the time he got out, he had excuses (I lost because I was past my prime) and Bowe was finished. Also, his celebrity allowed him to run from George Foreman. He fought Evander because and only because he thought Holyfield was a shot fighter. Surprise! My assessment? He's the biggest con job in boxing history and was just damn lucky.

One more point. HW bombers have more of an effect on the public than gifted punchers in other divisions for obvious reasons. Big guys going down in 1 or 2 rounds is much more dramatic (for the most part) than a MW or WW suffering the same fate. Think of “Julian Jackson” as an 80’s and 90s HW. Wouldn’t he have been a gigantic legend? Of course. Because he was a MW, he was relatively unknown among sports fans in general.

As if these points were not enough, Tyson humiliated boxing. No HW before him (and probably none following his unfortunate career) will ever approach his ignorance and gutter thug mentality. I’m still shocked he isn’t dead or in jail as we speak.

I admit, a case can be made for Tyson to enter the HOF. However, I think I can make a better case for retroactive abortion where he’s concerned.

frank fantastic post with good thought..like i said threwout his career mike faced adversity 6 times and failed 6 times...i dont remember tyson fearing foreman though but others have said the same thing..i do remember the fight as a possibilty was talked about and tyson on tv making a comment that the fight is a joke that he will kill foreman..thats all i honestly remember.

dmar5143 wrote:frank fantastic post with good thought..like i said threwout his career mike faced adversity 6 times and failed 6 times...i dont remember tyson fearing foreman though but others have said the same thing..i do remember the fight as a possibilty was talked about and tyson on tv making a comment that the fight is a joke that he will kill foreman..thats all i honestly remember.

No doubt Mike said that. However, Foreman had a whole arena screaming for Mike's head after he (George) destroyed Bert Cooper on "USA Tuesday Night Fights." "We want Tyson" was the chant led by George. Now dmar, let's be honest with ourselves. If Tyson had no trouble going into elevators to mug 80 year old ladies and knock their teeth out (as stated by Teddy Atlas), where's the argument for not fighting George Foreman, who was only in his early 40's at the time. Also, if a real champ heard about a celebrity fighter challenging him with a whole arena by his side, he would've scowled the earth to fight him. My take.

mike did that.the 80 year old lady...hes extra scum then...

dmar5143 wrote:mike did that.the 80 year old lady...hes extra scum then...

Yep. Teddy Atlas needs to write a book. Word has it, Mike was mugging people while he was champion. lol

Frank wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:mike did that.the 80 year old lady...hes extra scum then...

Yep. Teddy Atlas needs to write a book. Word has it, Mike was mugging people while he was champion. lol

Teddy did write a book, and it's actually a pretty good one. He's had an interesting life. Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Streets-Ring-Struggle-Become/dp/0060542403

Tobe wrote:

Frank wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:mike did that.the 80 year old lady...hes extra scum then...

Yep. Teddy Atlas needs to write a book. Word has it, Mike was mugging people while he was champion. lol

Teddy did write a book, and it's actually a pretty good one. He's had an interesting life. Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Streets-Ring-Struggle-Become/dp/0060542403

Did he go into Mike's past?

thanks tobe..i just bought it on amazon.1 seller had in new for a dollar plus 4.99 shipping.

Frank wrote:

Tobe wrote:

Frank wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:mike did that.the 80 year old lady...hes extra scum then...

Yep. Teddy Atlas needs to write a book. Word has it, Mike was mugging people while he was champion. lol

Teddy did write a book, and it's actually a pretty good one. He's had an interesting life. Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Streets-Ring-Struggle-Become/dp/0060542403

Did he go into Mike's past?

Surprisingly not very much. I think most people would expect him to talk more about Tyson than he actually does. I get the impression he didn't want to be too closely tied to him in his biography.

Some really great stories in there though, like the time he was about to murder Donnie LaLonde (seriously, outside his door with a gun)

guys search amazon..some great boxing books cheap.i just bought hands of stone for 1.63 used plus 3.99 shipping..

How did Ingemar Johansson ever get in?I'd pick Tyson over Ingo any day of the week.

Here's a question - what is Tyson's best win?

A tiny, scared Spinks?

An old-as-dirt Holmes?

Bonecrusher Smith?

Frank Bruno?!

Tobe wrote:Here's a question - what is Tyson's best win?

A tiny, scared Spinks?

An old-as-dirt Holmes?

Bonecrusher Smith?

Frank Bruno?!

I can see your point,but Larry Holmes(one of my favorites);had a paltry resume(outside of Norton).

WinstonSmith wrote:

Tobe wrote:Here's a question - what is Tyson's best win?

A tiny, scared Spinks?

An old-as-dirt Holmes?

Bonecrusher Smith?

Frank Bruno?!

I can see your point,but Larry Holmes(one of my favorites);had a paltry resume(outside of Norton).

Larry's got some good wins on there - Spinks, Norton, Shavers, Cooney, Ray Mercer, etc (not to mention the half-dead version of Ali). Certainly better than Tyson, IMO.

mikes 2 best wins in my mind are the 2 bruno fights.

yes ingos in so is braddock..both dont belong in the hall unless they visit as a paid tourist.

Tobe wrote:

WinstonSmith wrote:

Tobe wrote:Here's a question - what is Tyson's best win?

A tiny, scared Spinks?

An old-as-dirt Holmes?

Bonecrusher Smith?

Frank Bruno?!

I can see your point,but Larry Holmes(one of my favorites);had a paltry resume(outside of Norton).

Larry's got some good wins on there - Spinks, Norton, Shavers, Cooney, Ray Mercer, etc (not to mention the half-dead version of Ali). Certainly better than Tyson, IMO.

He also fought guys like Evangelista,Zanon,Jones and LeDoux.Not entirely Larry's fault,but world beaters they weren't.