ON SECOND THOUGHT

Some thoughts from watching JMM-Katsidis again.

-JMM doing great bodywork with both hands from the start

-Katsidis is trying to land that big left hook

-The Katsidis corner is REALLY good. Calm, limited number of instructions.

-Nacho Beristain is talking bodywork, bodywork, bodywork

-JMM moves in arcs, Katsidis in straight lines

-Katsidis did NOT move his feet when he landed that hook. If he had stepped and shifted his weight even more than he did? It may have been light's out.

-JMM's ability to recuperate is Bobby Chacon-like. Unreal. Katsidis window only last about 20 seconds.

-JMM on the ropes does NOT do what 99.9% of fighters do and square up. He is against the ropes and STILL in the proper stance. Amazing.

-Before the end of round three JMM lifted Katsidis off the mat with an uppercut.

-The JMM bodywork is simply exemplary, textbook stuff.

-Katsidis is a warrior. JMM must have lived like a Spartan his whole life to be fighting this way at 37.

-One thing that come through the second time around is that this is NOT a battle between the tough and the skilled. JMM is just as tough as Katsidis.

-By the end of round five JMM is dominating the very fight Katsidis wanted to fight. katsidis' electricity is fading.

-In the sixth JMM is whack-whack-whacking to the body. Thudding shots. There is NOTHING the Mexican cannot do with his left hand. Somewhere Tommy Loughran is smiling.

-Katsidis makes his stand in the seventh...and can't win the round. JMM is starting to ruin the Aussie's face.

-HUGE left hook by JMM with five seconds to go in the eighth. Best punch of the night for JMM.

-With 1:45 to go in round nine JMM makes his move onto his front foot! A four punch combination by JMM from just off the ropes rattles the Aussie and JMM transitions from counterpuncher to predator. He did the very same thing against Casamayor and Juan Diaz. What makes this really exceptional is Marquez does this only once in each fight. He sees something leave the other man and changes the dynamic and finishes the fight. Really a rare quality.

Watching this the second time around, this is a less competitive fight and more of a clinical annihilation.

-Michael Katsidis is a courageous man. JMM is a great fighter.

-JMM on the ropes does NOT do what 99.9% of fighters do and square up. He is against the ropes and STILL in the proper stance. Amazing.


He gets very good leverage and extension when fighting in close off of the ropes. Every time they were on the ropes, Katsidis would land but usually without full power, but Marquez was able to get better leverage and extension on his shots in the phone booth they were fighting in. Great stuff.

captainanddew wrote:
-JMM on the ropes does NOT do what 99.9% of fighters do and square up. He is against the ropes and STILL in the proper stance. Amazing.


He gets very good leverage and extension when fighting in close off of the ropes. Every time they were on the ropes, Katsidis would land but usually without full power, but Marquez was able to get better leverage and extension on his shots in the phone booth they were fighting in. Great stuff.

I wonder if JMM planned that. Because he was AT the ropes, but not really ON the ropes. In that position Katsidis couldn't really use forward momentum so I suppose it negated some of the Aussie's strength. Are Nacho and JMM THAT smart??????

i totally fell asleep halfway during the Ward vs Bika fight so i missed this fight and i can't find any links

from your description it sounds like a classic Marquez masterpiece. his opponents always look competitive when the reality is that Marquez is in total control and measuring them up. Once he has your movements figured out then it is just target practice for him. Down 3 times in the 1st against Manny but gets himself together and starts outboxing him. So calm and composed. he does nothing flashy but he does all of the basics sooo well. Out of Marquez, Barrera and Morales i think that Marquez lays claim to being the best Mexican fighter

dbudge wrote:i totally fell asleep halfway during the Ward vs Bika fight so i missed this fight and i can't find any links

from your description it sounds like a classic Marquez masterpiece. his opponents always look competitive when the reality is that Marquez is in total control and measuring them up. Once he has your movements figured out then it is just target practice for him. Down 3 times in the 1st against Manny but gets himself together and starts outboxing him. So calm and composed. he does nothing flashy but he does all of the basics sooo well. Out of Marquez, Barrera and Morales i think that Marquez lays claim to being the best Mexican fighter

I think you were dead right until your last line

JMM's resume isn't really close to the other two in my view.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:i totally fell asleep halfway during the Ward vs Bika fight so i missed this fight and i can't find any links

from your description it sounds like a classic Marquez masterpiece. his opponents always look competitive when the reality is that Marquez is in total control and measuring them up. Once he has your movements figured out then it is just target practice for him. Down 3 times in the 1st against Manny but gets himself together and starts outboxing him. So calm and composed. he does nothing flashy but he does all of the basics sooo well. Out of Marquez, Barrera and Morales i think that Marquez lays claim to being the best Mexican fighter

I think you were dead right until your last line

JMM's resume isn't really close to the other two in my view.

i don't think his resume is too far off. his lognetivity is what's impressive to me. whereas Morales and Barrera had sharp declines, Marquez has seemed to get better. i guess you have to say that Barrera and Morales had the better competition including eachother to build their resumes against, it's pretty hard to argue against that so once again i bow down to your superior knowledge

I noticed at the end of the fight last night when Merchant was interviewing Katsitis, he asked him a question about his brother and Kats started tearing up, and said something to the effect that: "I could hardly make it to the ring tonight". Geeezuz, I felt for the guy, when you take all that grief into consideration, i'd say Kats put on an extemely gutsy performance.
Anyway, I wish Kats all the best with his life, but maybe he should fight a few more times against a lesser opponents and call it a career, he's taken a lot of punishment.

dbudge wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:i totally fell asleep halfway during the Ward vs Bika fight so i missed this fight and i can't find any links

from your description it sounds like a classic Marquez masterpiece. his opponents always look competitive when the reality is that Marquez is in total control and measuring them up. Once he has your movements figured out then it is just target practice for him. Down 3 times in the 1st against Manny but gets himself together and starts outboxing him. So calm and composed. he does nothing flashy but he does all of the basics sooo well. Out of Marquez, Barrera and Morales i think that Marquez lays claim to being the best Mexican fighter

I think you were dead right until your last line

JMM's resume isn't really close to the other two in my view.

i don't think his resume is too far off. his lognetivity is what's impressive to me. whereas Morales and Barrera had sharp declines, Marquez has seemed to get better. i guess you have to say that Barrera and Morales had the better competition including eachother to build their resumes against, it's pretty hard to argue against that so once again i bow down to your superior knowledge

The bold really is extraordinary.

Ring wrote:I noticed at the end of the fight last night when Merchant was interviewing Katsitis, he asked him a question about his brother and Kats started tearing up, and said something to the effect that: "I could hardly make it to the ring tonight". Geeezuz, I felt for the guy, when you take all that grief into consideration, i'd say Kats put on an extemely gutsy performance.
Anyway, I wish Kats all the best with his life, but maybe he should fight a few more times against a lesser opponents and call it a career, he's taken a lot of punishment.

I love Larry Merchant, but that question really was unfair. On the chat last night I said in terms of heart Katsidis is a modern day Carmen Basilio. I stand by that.

marbleheadmaui wrote:Watching this the second time around, this is a less competitive fight and more of a clinical annihilation.

That's much easier to say in retrospect. I think everyone thought Marquez would outbox and outclass Katsidis. The question was whether Katsidis could endure it and wear JMM down. Marquez smothered that idea, but the big KD made it seem like Kat was never out of it until he really started to fade.

Ring wrote:Anyway, I wish Kats all the best with his life, but maybe he should fight a few more times against a lesser opponents and call it a career, he's taken a lot of punishment.

I want him to keep fighting the best. He's too exciting and valuable to the sport. I also wish him emotional peace because you could see how torn up he was talking about his brother. He handled himself like a man should. In the ring and out of it.

Gumby wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:Watching this the second time around, this is a less competitive fight and more of a clinical annihilation.

That's much easier to say in retrospect. I think everyone thought Marquez would outbox and outclass Katsidis. The question was whether Katsidis could endure it and wear JMM down. Marquez smothered that idea, but the big KD made it seem like Kat was never out of it until he really started to fade.

Ring wrote:Anyway, I wish Kats all the best with his life, but maybe he should fight a few more times against a lesser opponents and call it a career, he's taken a lot of punishment.

I want him to keep fighting the best. He's too exciting and valuable to the sport. I also wish him emotional peace because you could see how torn up he was talking about his brother. He handled himself like a man should. In the ring and out of it.

On the bold. Ain't THAT the truth?

Katsidis knocks out any other lightweight in the world last night.

Am I the only one who was surprised as fuck that JMM had no marks on his face after the fight? I mean this guy looked buss'd at the end of both Diaz fights, but was pretty much clean after this one.

Also, if I have to hear another Flod hugger talk about how Pacboy has never beaten a skilled fighter.. my head might just asplode like in the movie Scanners.

Groundhog wrote:Am I the only one who was surprised as fuck that JMM had no marks on his face after the fight? I mean this guy looked buss'd at the end of both Diaz fights, but was pretty much clean after this one.

Also, if I have to hear another Flod hugger talk about how Pacboy has never beaten a skilled fighter.. my head might just asplode like in the movie Scanners.

Just laugh at those morons and tell them it's too bad they are so clueless they've never seen Charchai Chionoi, Lehlo Ledwaba, MAB or JMM fight.

Watched the fight again. WTF is with Katsidis right hand though? It's like that Arreola technique lol.

Also, I saw Cyclops and Martinez sitting near ringside. Yes, Cyclops was wearing his shades.

I think I saw Guerrero too. He must be thinking "oh shit, do I really want this guy?"

Also seen Floyd's "adviser" Leonard at the fight with a WOMAN!!! Trying to hush the rumors I guess!!

Groundhog wrote:Watched the fight again. WTF is with Katsidis right hand though? It's like that Arreola technique lol.

Also, I saw Cyclops and Martinez sitting near ringside. Yes, Cyclops was wearing his shades.

I think I saw Guerrero too. He must be thinking "oh shit, do I really want this guy?"

yeah I don't know what is with the flying elbow technique. How can that feel natural to someone?

i have always thought that Katsidis fights using a "crab-like" technique

dbudge wrote:i have always thought that Katsidis fights using a "crab-like" technique

Yeah, he does. But he doesn't fight out of a deep enough crouch to really make it obvious.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:i have always thought that Katsidis fights using a "crab-like" technique

Yeah, he does. But he doesn't fight out of a deep enough crouch to really make it obvious.

i've only just watched your gif, the way he lands 3 left hooks in a row up on his toes with full ferocity is a highly impressive combination of balance, power and technique. if i tried 3 lefts in a row like that up on my toes i'd end up stumbling away to my right hopelessly

dbudge wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:i have always thought that Katsidis fights using a "crab-like" technique

Yeah, he does. But he doesn't fight out of a deep enough crouch to really make it obvious.

i've only just watched your gif, the way he lands 3 left hooks in a row up on his toes with full ferocity is a highly impressive combination of balance, power and technique. if i tried 3 lefts in a row like that up on my toes i'd end up stumbling away to my right hopelessly

Yup. Now look just a few seconds earlier. He tries and misses a lights out, leaping hook and lands with such perfect balance that HE is the guy who throws the next three punches. Think Chappie trained Louis well or what?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:i have always thought that Katsidis fights using a "crab-like" technique

Yeah, he does. But he doesn't fight out of a deep enough crouch to really make it obvious.

i've only just watched your gif, the way he lands 3 left hooks in a row up on his toes with full ferocity is a highly impressive combination of balance, power and technique. if i tried 3 lefts in a row like that up on my toes i'd end up stumbling away to my right hopelessly

Yup. Now look just a few seconds earlier. He tries and misses a lights out, leaping hook and lands with such perfect balance that HE is the guy who throws the next three punches. Think Chappie trained Louis well or what?

yeh it is incredible. the way he keeps himself balanced after that attempted haymaker is not an easy thing to do, momentum can be a bitch! the fact that he was still head on with his feet firmly planted after that is impressive enough but to then get up on his toes and land 3 shots in quick succession with such power and not have to reset his feet is truly something beautiful to admire

dbudge wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

dbudge wrote:i have always thought that Katsidis fights using a "crab-like" technique

Yeah, he does. But he doesn't fight out of a deep enough crouch to really make it obvious.

i've only just watched your gif, the way he lands 3 left hooks in a row up on his toes with full ferocity is a highly impressive combination of balance, power and technique. if i tried 3 lefts in a row like that up on my toes i'd end up stumbling away to my right hopelessly

Yup. Now look just a few seconds earlier. He tries and misses a lights out, leaping hook and lands with such perfect balance that HE is the guy who throws the next three punches. Think Chappie trained Louis well or what?

yeh it is incredible. the way he keeps himself balanced after that attempted haymaker is not an easy thing to do, momentum can be a bitch! the fact that he was still head on with his feet firmly planted after that is impressive enough but to then get up on his toes and land 3 shots in quick succession with such power and not have to reset his feet is truly something beautiful to admire

Craft, craft, craft. Louis is one of those guys who gets better and better the more you watch him.