Hagler and Hopkins???

The reason for this thread is damage control. Allow me to explain.

Once in a great while, I’ll miss a big fight as I did this weekend with Hopkins and Cloud. Granted, from all accounts Hopkins won the fight. Great.

However, there was a comment (I won’t say where) that stated the following; If you matched Hopkins and Marvelous Marvin Hagler’s records up, Hopkins has beaten better fighters and get this, more Hall of Famers.

I won’t comment on the above statement, however allow me to very quickly explain Marvin’s career once again, if for no other reason than my own satisfaction.

It’s true that Hagler’s list of title defenses were littered with mediocre MWs and exceptionally great welterweights. It happened for the following reason. During the mid 70s, Hugo Corro was the Middleweight Champion of the World, however he’d rather fuck a female gorilla in front of her husband than fight Marvin Hagler, or for that matter any quality MW. So these special fighters went to war with each other. For the most part, they either fought in Philly or Boston.

The names of the MWs who could’ve defeated the natural MWs who challenged Hagler for his title is a long one. Let me see, Eugene Watts, Willie Monroe, Bennie Briscoe, Cyclone Hart and Sugar Ray Seales would’ve easily beaten the Tony Sibson’s of the word, but guess what? Hagler knocked out all of the above MWs (with the exception of Bennie Briscoe who retired soon after losing a decision to Hagler.). In other words, as I've stated before, Hagler cleaned out the division before he became the Middleweight Champ.

This is known as a boxing site for people that know a little more about the history of the sport than let’s say, certain other sites. I’m just making sure it stays that way.

Any comments from Boxing Lawyer are welcomed on this subject. LOLOL

frank the comparrison is a joke.first ill disagree with you that marvin beat mediocre middles.in that era there was a lot of good middles.you mentioned a few..look mugabi seales hart briscoe monroe watts and 4 or 5 others were in there heyday when hagler fought them.more hall of shamers.maybe if you count oscar whos legit but not in the hall yet..lol then winky and maybe glen johnson will get in but to me there not hofamers.forget the jones win that dont count.in reality bo-hops best wins came after his 2 losses to taylor.yes he lost both thoses fights.bo-hops title defences are amoung the worst contenders that fought for the middle title.
bo hop is what i call indeed a great fighter.there are differnt levels of greatness.hagler is at a much higher level of greatness.especialy at middle.hopkins was a legit lineal 2 time lh champ.he marvels yes at 48..he got beat by dawson and to me dawsons nothing.so is cloud.so is pasqual.they have no clue on how to fight compared to a complete fighter.
hagler i rank 4th of all time at middle.he and monzon who i have at 3 can easly switch places.without soundy cocky or conceited i know plenty about this sport..anyone who does cannot have hagler off there list in the top 5 of middles.anywhere from 1 to 5..anyone who truly knows the sport cannot rank bo-hop at middle in the top ten.sorry he dont make my top 15 either.
lets please not get into a fantasy fight here.bo hop is not going to lull a hagler into doing nothing.at middle hagler had far more tools and just a smart ring wise maybe smarter.hopkins is a marvel yes .hes in a era where fighters are super built up by hbo showime the media and stupid fans.dawson pasqual cloud are jokes..look bo hops not fighting a tunney a charles a bob foster a archie more a billy conn sam langford etc etc mike spinks.all would clean his clock.a harold johnson and willie pastrano would of taken him to school.
my advice frank my friend lol is dont read other boards where its infested by morons.i feel hagler overall fought better competion.not only that its how he won against that competion by puting them to sleep not lulling them to sleep.

IMHO....Mustafa Hamsho beats most MW fighters in the last 20 years. Forget guys like Watts & Briscoe, they would be MW Champs in this day & age. Hagler fought plenty of great competition. Hopkins gets star points for his longevity, a testimony to his clean living and always staying in shape. He defied Father Time the right way, however, if you look at his MW title defenses, it was littered with average fighters. Not taking anything away from B-Hop, it was something that no other fighter was doing. Cleaning out his division. Hagler, did exactly the same, only against tougher guys.

flapanther2001 wrote:IMHO....Mustafa Hamsho beats most MW fighters in the last 20 years. Forget guys like Watts & Briscoe, they would be MW Champs in this day & age. Hagler fought plenty of great competition. Hopkins gets star points for his longevity, a testimony to his clean living and always staying in shape. He defied Father Time the right way, however, if you look at his MW title defenses, it was littered with average fighters. Not taking anything away from B-Hop, it was something that no other fighter was doing. Cleaning out his division. Hagler, did exactly the same, only against tougher guys.

agreed. good post.

bhop is for sure a HOFer. he just has too many things on his resume to keep him out. the interesting thing about hopkins though is that he really wasnt that great at his best. he was a smart fighter who wasnt super talented and figured out a way to beat most of his opponents. he just had trouble with any fighter who would either throw a lot of punches or would stay outside and use the jab. this is because he loved to slow down the pace of fights.

as dmar said, not trying to get into specifics for fantasy fights, but i just think bhop would struggle a whole lot with some of the great middleweights of the past. i dont think that he could slow down the fight like he likes to and they wouldnt let his dirty tactics deter them from trying to beat him.

powerpuncher wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:IMHO....Mustafa Hamsho beats most MW fighters in the last 20 years. Forget guys like Watts & Briscoe, they would be MW Champs in this day & age. Hagler fought plenty of great competition. Hopkins gets star points for his longevity, a testimony to his clean living and always staying in shape. He defied Father Time the right way, however, if you look at his MW title defenses, it was littered with average fighters. Not taking anything away from B-Hop, it was something that no other fighter was doing. Cleaning out his division. Hagler, did exactly the same, only against tougher guys.

agreed. good post.

bhop is for sure a HOFer. he just has too many things on his resume to keep him out. the interesting thing about hopkins though is that he really wasnt that great at his best. he was a smart fighter who wasnt super talented and figured out a way to beat most of his opponents. he just had trouble with any fighter who would either throw a lot of punches or would stay outside and use the jab. this is because he loved to slow down the pace of fights.

as dmar said, not trying to get into specifics for fantasy fights, but i just think bhop would struggle a whole lot with some of the great middleweights of the past. i dont think that he could slow down the fight like he likes to and they wouldnt let his dirty tactics deter them from trying to beat him.

I would love to see Hopkins/Hamsho. The ref would need combat pay.

I would love to see Hopkins/Hamsho. The ref would need combat pay.[/quote]

My money would be on Hamsho.

Hagler was PAST HIS PRIME when he won the middleweight title. His best years were prior to 81. Hagler aged very fast in the ring too, due to the HARD nature of his match-making and the toughness of his competition. Marvin, fighting at todays pace of one fight a year, and against the low-risk, high reward guys that Roy Jones and Mayweather have made the norm, would have been champion for 20 years.

Hopkins is a great fighter. He is a marvel and a wonder. What he has done is amazing and worthy of note. That said, he is a Full Level BELOW Marvin Hagler. Hagler belongs, as my friend says, among the top 5 middles of all time by the most stringent and demanding of standards. Nobody can deny this with any credibility. Hopkins, however, might not make the top 10 or 15.

FWIW, I make Hagler the number one or two guy in the deepest Jamdivision in the history of boxing. I switch off between him and Monzon depending on what day it is.

Also, I think Hopkins would have had his hands full with the likes of Mike McCallum, Sumbu Kalambay, Michael Nunn, and James Toney. Guys like Monzon, Conn, Ketchel, Grebb, Hagler, Robinson, and Conn just seem light years out of his reach..