UPDATE: Bute-Pavlik almost set for November

Good considering Kessler and Bute cant come to terms

Bute vs Kessler can still happen next year.

what was the main reason why it didn't happen? seemed like SHO had that one ready to go

Groundhog wrote:what was the main reason why it didn't happen? seemed like SHO had that one ready to go

Money.

Pavlik is trying to cash in, he wont win this one. He'll be out of boxing in two years.

Ali wrote:

Groundhog wrote:what was the main reason why it didn't happen? seemed like SHO had that one ready to go

Money.

not easy to get a fight made between Kessler and Bute.

First of all is the location. Bute can pack the house in Canada. Kessler can pack the house in Denmark. Bute supposedly wouldn't go to Denmark (which makes sense for US tv audiences as a fight in Denmark won't be prime time here in the US but Canada would suffice).

So if the fight needs to be in Canada it isn't great for Kessler. In Denmark he is guaranteed to have probably half of the tv sets in the country watch his fight. But if the fight is in Canada, it won't be prime time in Denmark and that hurts viewership.

And the live gate. You have two guys who can pack the house at home. Kessler drew a very good crowd for a tune up fight. Bute stacks them in, in Canada. Kessler could fight someone else and draw 12-15k in Denmark, Bute could draw 15k in Canada against someone else. Putting either of them together in either Denmark or Canada isn't going to draw more than 17-18k. By having them fight the total live gate isn't going to get that much bigger and both guys (and their promotional companies) would be losing out on some good gate money (as they would likely have to split the gate).

I think there is nothing wrong with having this fight delayed. Kessler can fight someone better than his previous fight (and not on the level of Bute) and get better prepared. Bute can get rid of someone like Pavlik. We can see Kessler vs Bute around next March.

captainanddew wrote:
not easy to get a fight made between Kessler and Bute.

First of all is the location. Bute can pack the house in Canada. Kessler can pack the house in Denmark. Bute supposedly wouldn't go to Denmark (which makes sense for US tv audiences as a fight in Denmark won't be prime time here in the US but Canada would suffice).

So if the fight needs to be in Canada it isn't great for Kessler. In Denmark he is guaranteed to have probably half of the tv sets in the country watch his fight. But if the fight is in Canada, it won't be prime time in Denmark and that hurts viewership.

And the live gate. You have two guys who can pack the house at home. Kessler drew a very good crowd for a tune up fight. Bute stacks them in, in Canada. Kessler could fight someone else and draw 12-15k in Denmark, Bute could draw 15k in Canada against someone else. Putting either of them together in either Denmark or Canada isn't going to draw more than 17-18k. By having them fight the total live gate isn't going to get that much bigger and both guys (and their promotional companies) would be losing out on some good gate money (as they would likely have to split the gate).

I think there is nothing wrong with having this fight delayed. Kessler can fight someone better than his previous fight (and not on the level of Bute) and get better prepared. Bute can get rid of someone like Pavlik. We can see Kessler vs Bute around next March.

I agree. There has to be significant tv money behind this to make it worth both fighters' risk. I don't see that yet. A fight against Pavlik will make Bute larger in the US as well as Kessler taking a strap would make it the almighty "unification" match which is a pretty big marketing tool.

Froch could draw big money gates in the UK, but has been fighting the best away from home.

So Kessler going to fight another bum in Denmark. Bute going to fight Pavlik, who looked like shit in his last fight and is going to get destroyed.

Showtime went out of their way to build a fight between these two.

Stieglitz is hardly a bum.

Ali wrote:Stieglitz is hardly a bum.

He's also hardly a champion.

@captain

great post.

Kinda makes me appreciate the super six more. with all it's flaws. The fighters had to fight each other (well for the most part).

Gumby wrote:

Ali wrote:Stieglitz is hardly a bum.

He's also hardly a champion.

+1 Andrade whooped him pretty easily and these guys are steps behind Ward, Froch, Dirrell (yes I said it), Bute and Kessler. Cap makes a good point. I wouldnt mind seeing both men fight someone else in the mean while. Kessler fighting Stieglitz is still like a tune up and Bute fighting Pavlik is still a very solid fight for him.

Diego408 wrote:

Gumby wrote:

Ali wrote:Stieglitz is hardly a bum.

He's also hardly a champion.

+1 Andrade whooped him pretty easily and these guys are steps behind Ward, Froch, Dirrell (yes I said it), Bute and Kessler. Cap makes a good point. I wouldnt mind seeing both men fight someone else in the mean while. Kessler fighting Stieglitz is still like a tune up and Bute fighting Pavlik is still a very solid fight for him.

Not realy. Pavlik looked like shit in his last fight, and is not even close to being ready, if he ever will be, taking on the top Super Middles.

It'd be a one-sided ass kicking from Bute

All that has to be agreed on is venue. Pavlik's camp has stated they'd be willing to go to Canada. Also Pavlik is wondering if he should take a tune-up first. Arum advised that he shouldn't.

RIP Pavlik.
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=28392&more=1

Assuming this means Pac vs JMM is on Showtime

Top Rank planning a huge November for them

Vazquez vs Arce II & Salido vs JML II
Bute vs Pavlik
JMM vs Pac

gomez1012 wrote:Assuming this means Pac vs JMM is on Showtime

Top Rank planning a huge November for them

Vazquez vs Arce II & Salido vs JML II
Bute vs Pavlik
JMM vs Pac

Better yet make that the WHOLE PPV card!! Don King style! I would pay 60 bucks for that card. Arum should go the Dana White route and pay Pac and JMM 250k each, Vasquez & arce 50k, Bute & Paclik 100k and tell them to make up the rest of the money in sponsors and fight of the night and ko of the night honors!!

be nice but still great, two cards on Showtime and the PPV which I hope has decent under card

Props to Kelly for taking such a dangerous and big fight after his traumatic year.

Can Kelly survive those body shots ?? I doubt it.

I have to give Kelly the credit for taking a big fight, but he's custom made for a counter-puncher like Bute: slow, one-dimensional attack, poor defense. Add that to the fact that he won't have a size advantage and it's a likely mid-round KO for Bute.

Kelly needs more in-ring advice than "DOUBLE THE FUCKING JAB"

NJBeatdown86 wrote:I have to give Kelly the credit for taking a big fight, but he's custom made for a counter-puncher like Bute: slow, one-dimensional attack, poor defense. Add that to the fact that he won't have a size advantage and it's a likely mid-round KO for Bute.

Kelly needs more in-ring advice than "DOUBLE THE FUCKING JAB"

lol, its actually a great plan for Bute though

I give him a shot, Brinkley gave him some difficulty, Pavlik will def make things interesting

Pavlik has shown nothing that he will do well at Super Middle. He's slower then he was at middle, which is saying something. He moves like he's dragging a dead body. His power is all but gone. Because he needs a stationary target to land his power shot, and he's too slow to set that up.

GrantZilla wrote:Pavlik has shown nothing that he will do well at Super Middle. He's slower then he was at middle, which is saying something. He moves like he's dragging a dead body. His power is all but gone. Because he needs a stationary target to land his power shot, and he's too slow to set that up.

I believe it was Kieran who was doing the live chat for espn during the last PPV (which had Pavlik on undercard). He remarked that a matchmaker from one of the promotional companies had told him after the Pavlik fight something along the lines of "Pavlik's timing is gone". And it did appear to be.

I can understand the feeling here. Bute has been running over guys, while Kelly is just getting his feet wet after a layoff and didn't look so good against Gomez.

But here's a little food for thought. First of all that kid he fought was a weird fighter. You figure you're fighting a guy named Alfonso Lopez out of Texas, that he's not gonna be a defensive cutie. This kid was just a lot more awkward then they thought, the type of opponent who can make any fighter coming off a layoff look bad.

Secondly, consider how different Pavlik's career would be today if he fought the same guys Bute beat. He'd be undefeated too. And I bet he wouldn't have been pushed to the brink by Andrade.

Pavlik has beat and lost to a level of fighter that Bute has never been exposed to. Even Kelly's weaker middleweight title opponents like Rubio would represent Bute's best opponent to date. Bute has talent for sure, but he hasn't really beaten anybody, has he?

I just think it's strange how we give fighters shit for not fighting anybody. Then at the same time, everyone is all over this Bute guy, while mocking a fighter who has fought exponentially tougher guys. I could be wrong. Maybe Bute wins. But if Kelly puts him on his ass, I'm not gonna be shocked.

Bute's style is all wrong for Pavlik - I can't seem him handling the southpaw's power and combinations (especially the body shots) at all.

I've been saying for a while Bute needed to step up the competition, and I guess Pavlik is a step up, but I'd still be surprized if he loses to Kelly. Still, I'm interested in seeing it.