jumping weight classes

ive made a few threads about jumping weight classes before but i realized something recently that i had never really thought about. many ATGs didnt really jump weight classes. they stayed at their weight for most of their career or only moved up one class. i wont include HWs since they dont have anywhere to move.

pep was at featherweight his whole career except he weighed more at the end of his career way past his prime. benny leonard was at lightweight his whole career before his comeback from retirement although he did fight for the welterweight title once but moved back down after that. marvin hagler and carlos monzon were at middleweight their whole careers. roberto duran stayed at lightweight for the first 10 years of his career. tommy loughran fought pretty much his entire career at light heavy. there are many other fighters like this.

there are also the fighters who just fought bigger men even if they werent in the weight class like greb or walker did. just gain a little weight for a fight then fight again at your natural weight class. it was just making me wonder how many ATGs actually moved weight classes? armstrong held 3 titles at once which again is the case of a smaller man beating bigger men. its not like now where fighters slowly get accustomed to a weight class and naturally get their body used to it.

i think that jumping weight classes has gone a little overboard to tell you the truth. i understand that sometimes 2 fighters 10 pounds apart is a decent amount of weight but couldnt they still fight? if you are a lightweight and want to fight a specific welterweight do you have to leave your division and not have to clean it out? i think that jumping weight classes is the easy way out. its easier to pick your opponents and to avoid others. do what marquez did. he fought mayweather at welter but went back to lightweight. how many fighters do that?

I agree, but seems we're in the minority.

To me, Bradley-Khan to decide who The Man is in their weight class is more important to me, and I think boxing, then Bradley fighting Pac for a paycheck in a weight class Bradley only fought once in.

Weigh class jumping going to happen because so many stupid nich weight classes. So the talent is spread thin. But when there are good fights to be made in your division I think it's bullshit. Unless a fighter physicaly can't make the weight.

good topic and i agree.first like ive said manny times there are too many phoney useless divisions.every 3 or 4 pounds.look 105 108 115 122 130 154 are not needed.so are the guys realy jumping up in weight class.3 frigging pounds.or 10 pounds your up to 4 weight classes.example from 112 to 122 thats 4 classes you fight in..its done for phoney titles.5 6 7 champs a division and the weight classes thin out divisions since we consider 112 115 two different classes.now everyone can be called a 3 division champ with 4 or 5 belts.theres plenty of fighters that fit that description when in reality they were never a real champ not once..get ride of thoses divisions and phoney titles and go back to same day weigh inns and this junk is eliminated a lot..
yep ive said 5- 10 pounds fight night weight wise isnt fighting a huge giant..like you said its been done with success many times over.
there has always been guys that went up in weight class because they simply no longer could not make the legitimate weight before.example ez charles fought in 3 carpentier in all 8 willie pastrano in 4 mcclarlin in 5 for example.but they were real weight classes and it was done not to fight for a phoney title thats 3 pounds away but because they no longer could make the same day weigh inns...yes most fighters in the past stayed in one division there entire career..manny fought in 2 but only after being in one class 8-10 years then moved up because they no longer legitimetly could make the weight..
everytime i hear a fighter announced former feather former super feather former super bantam champ for example i want to strangle the fucking announcer because the guys not a real former champ in anything..that fits 100 fighters today.
this mockery will continue untill doomsday unless a huge outcry and a real world wide one only legit body establishes sanity back to the game.donaire stat=reted at what 115 which means feather in my book.he weighed 134 fight nite for 118 title.118 122 126 130 135 thats 5 classes today..he fights for 6 more years he be fighting at 140 but weighing more..so instead of maybe 2 real classes hell be in six...i wanna puke.

There aren't as many fighters as there were in thebdays of Leonard, Pep and to a lesser extent Hagler and Duran. Back ten you could find ten guys in the same weight class that could all compete at a high level and all competed for a lone belt. Boxing numbers have diminished so fighters have to seek out other opportunities and challenges in order to earn a living.

GrantZilla wrote:I agree, but seems we're in the minority.

To me, Bradley-Khan to decide who The Man is in their weight class is more important to me, and I think boxing, then Bradley fighting Pac for a paycheck in a weight class Bradley only fought once in.

Weigh class jumping going to happen because so many stupid nich weight classes. So the talent is spread thin. But when there are good fights to be made in your division I think it's bullshit. Unless a fighter physicaly can't make the weight.

Yea you're in the minority.

Beating Pac would mean more than beating Khan.

I'll take Hugo Cazares. He's currently ranked number 1 at 115. What would mean more beating the number 2 guy Tomas Rojas or moving up and beating number 3 ranked p4p fighter in Nonito Donaire?

I am all for fighting and determining the best in each division. I like Bradley vs Khan as a fight.

But I'll be honest. Fighting Pac is determining the man at 140 in an alternate sense. Pac weighs 148 in the ring when he fights. He is outweighed by alot of the 140 pound guys (including Bradley).

Pac is a junior welter who eats and drinks normally up to the weigh in.

[quote="SlickMoney"]

GrantZilla wrote: I'll take Hugo Cazares. He's currently ranked number 1 at 115. What would mean more beating the number 2 guy Tomas Rojas or moving up and beating number 3 ranked p4p fighter in Nonito Donaire?

So you can't fight to become a legit/linear Champion in your division and take a fight with Donaire?

Get out of here

And I don't agree that there is a less number of good fighters, except in the heavier weights. Just the talent is all spread thin beween all the nich weight classes.

Take middleweight which is scarce of talent. If you got rid of the Jr Middle division, fighters either have to lose weight and fight at welter or fight at middle. Then if you got rid of Super Middle, same thing. Either try and make the middle limit, or go fight at Light HW.

So middleweight and Light Heavyweight would be stacked.

SlickMoney wrote:

GrantZilla wrote:I agree, but seems we're in the minority.

To me, Bradley-Khan to decide who The Man is in their weight class is more important to me, and I think boxing, then Bradley fighting Pac for a paycheck in a weight class Bradley only fought once in.

Weigh class jumping going to happen because so many stupid nich weight classes. So the talent is spread thin. But when there are good fights to be made in your division I think it's bullshit. Unless a fighter physicaly can't make the weight.

Yea you're in the minority.

Beating Pac would mean more than beating Khan.

I'll take Hugo Cazares. He's currently ranked number 1 at 115. What would mean more beating the number 2 guy Tomas Rojas or moving up and beating number 3 ranked p4p fighter in Nonito Donaire?

im fine with that but the problem is that he shouldnt stay at 118. if he just wants to fight donaire to show that he is better then im all for it but it doesnt mean that there arent more people at 115 that he should avoid either.

the middles will still not be stacked grant.the 154 have nothing exceptional.the LH yes would be a excellent division.the guys fighting at 168 cannot make 160.fight night there 180 plus plus.the 140 pounders have been around for over 70 years and will be deep but the 147 division will still be mediocre.the 135 would show improvment the 118 for sure and 126 solid.

dmar5143 wrote:the middles will still not be stacked grant.the 154 have nothing exceptional.the LH yes would be a excellent division.the guys fighting at 168 cannot make 160.fight night there 180 plus plus.the 140 pounders have been around for over 70 years and will be deep but the 147 division will still be mediocre.the 135 would show improvment the 118 for sure and 126 solid.

i dont know why people dont just realize that less weight classes mean more good match ups and less avoiding match ups. i think that breaking records has become such a fad that we forget that greatness isnt just about breaking records but about just being great. i couldnt care less how many weight classes you have had a trinket in. i will be more impressed if you just always fight the best in YOUR OWN weight class.

powerpuncher yep..reality is the matchups you stated that could be made and fighters would not hop divisions and stay mostly in one untill years later they may outgrow that one..

Unless the divisions are reduced I can't see alot of divisions being cleaned out.

Hopefully Andre Ward tries to dominate Super Middleweight instead of jumping straight up to LHW after the Bute fight.

I don't mind the weight classes nearly as much as multiple belts. They allow top fighters to avoid each other so easily. Guys wouldn't jump a weight class if they haven't "accomplished" something at that weight class.

From some reports this year, it sounded like the WBC was almost broke. If they go, it might have an adverse effect on the others too. Of course, it might have a postive effect too.

Ali wrote:Unless the divisions are reduced I can't see alot of divisions being cleaned out.

Hopefully Andre Ward tries to dominate Super Middleweight instead of jumping straight up to LHW after the Bute fight.

i agree but at least if ward won the tournament by beating froch and abe then fought bute and won then he would have beaten pretty much every top super middle. but i agree that he should stay down in weight and clean out the rest of the division unless it gets super weak and the LHW division somehow starts to blossom.

Don't get me wrong Ward would definitely have a case for moving up, but I just want to see a dominant champ in a division that isn't HW.

Martinez could dominate MW or JMW but he's allowed the Williams knockout to go straight to his head.

Even though both sides have merit, it just seems like as soon as a fighter wins a belt, he's looking to cash out against a bigger name fighter right away. Nobody, with the exception of a few, wants to stick around & defend his title against the contenders in his weight class.

flapanther2001 wrote:Even though both sides have merit, it just seems like as soon as a fighter wins a belt, he's looking to cash out against a bigger name fighter right away. Nobody, with the exception of a few, wants to stick around & defend his title against the contenders in his weight class.

+1

boxing needs a 100 percent total dictator who will ensure good matchups and enforce contracts and will eliminate 6 divisions and nuke the boxing commisions..grant and i are avalible..

I just don't see how can get rid of weight classes now. Like government programs. Once they implement them, it's nearly impossible to get rid of them.

Even if say US created a single commission, doesn't mean their rules would apply to other countries.

dmar5143 wrote:boxing needs a 100 percent total dictator who will ensure good matchups and enforce contracts and will eliminate 6 divisions and nuke the boxing commisions..grant and i are avalible..

Boxing needs..

flapanther2001 wrote:Even though both sides have merit, it just seems like as soon as a fighter wins a belt, he's looking to cash out against a bigger name fighter right away. Nobody, with the exception of a few, wants to stick around & defend his title against the contenders in his weight class.

which is weird because you would still make good money and you would build up to make even more money when a super fight comes along. when you try to cash out too early like bradley is trying, then you are actually losing money in the long run if he ends up becoming more popular.

yep powerpuncher.unfortunely bradleys doing everything to make himself unpopular.maybe hbo should say to bradley heres our 2 and 2 only approved fights if you dont fight kahn.1 ortiz 2.wlad.

Notice how these fighters are all HBO created greedy fuck monsters.

Mayweather, getting paid well on HBO when he was starting out yet had nerve to call it "slave wages"

Wink, Williams, Dawson, now Bradley.

Dawson was fighting reguarly when was on Showtime and not over-paid. What's he been doing now? Sitting on his ass waiting for his HBO payday.

What's Martinez doing? Sitting on his ass, waiting for his HBO payday.

On facebook, Grant put for people that inspire him, Ross Greenburg.

Ali wrote:Don't get me wrong Ward would definitely have a case for moving up, but I just want to see a dominant champ in a division that isn't HW.

Martinez could dominate MW or JMW but he's allowed the Williams knockout to go straight to his head.

Really? He just fought a guy that no one else would have fought and KO'd him (Zidzurik sp). Who should he fight that makes sense? Sturm wont give him the time of day.