Canelo Alvarez vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr.: Somebody help me out here

I'm slightly confused as to why this fight is exciting so many people.

(1) MW is a defensive whiz and still has most of his speed left. He doesn't have a glass jaw nor is he feather fisted. The only way to beat a man like this is to outhustle him (This is the reason Pac was avoided.). I don't believe he can be beat with power alone. I enjoy watching Alvarez fight, always have. However, he lacks the speed necessary to out-hustle MW. So how's Canelo supposed to win?

(2) Why was Duran able to fight Ray Leonard in Montreal? Well, to say Duran was great is to say that Mozart was a pretty good composer. That said, a mixture of power, SPEED and MOVEMENT got Duran in the fight and he rocked Ray all night. Granted, I don't think MW is Ray Leonard, but how's Alvarez supposed to consistently attack MW? He doesn't possess the speed or movement to do this.

(3) The only chance I can give this fighter (Alvarez) is to rush MW to the ropes and put in on the line in nearly every round. I doubt he does this, though if he does at least we'll see some excitement.

(4) I'm looking at this fight as a rematch between MW and a bigger, stronger but less talented Juan M. Marquez. I'd like to be wrong. Somebody help me out.

frank im with this school of thought that at 147 or 154 you have to pick Floyd until proven wrong.alvarez yes has power and size to his advantage.his defence in his last fight suprized everyone including trout.he hits well to the body and that's an area that Floyd can be vulnerable at..the first few rounds may be strategy and tech wize favor Floyd perhaps but this kid will outhussle him overall.floyd is not a volume puncher.alvarez has shown improvement in his jab and that could work effectively against Floyd.he can pin Floyd against the ropes Floyd cant fight well there and mix punches to the body and head.counter floyds right had lead with a left hook and we got a fight..
there are very few fighters or experts picking alvarez yet the odds are only 3-1 meaning fans like alvarezs chances and laying a few bucks on that.
this fight for a good year has been on a lot of fans wish list.thats why the excitement.alvarez hand speed isn't that slow with a one punch or 2 punch combo.in bunches maybe yes.unlike RG alvarez will pull the trigger and not get discouraged.
theres a big difference in alvarez and jmm.marquez cannot fight moving forward against a counterpuncher.alvarez can.
stamina over the long haul may hurt alvarez.i don't know how well that is.plenty of guys are picking floyd via a walk in the park like the RG fight.there in for a suprize there.
if anyones a better and a big Floyd fan 3-1 is the best price you will ever see.the price is right on Floyd.
I think we are going to see a competitive fight.

I'm thinking Canelo wins 4 or 5 rounds but won't win the fight. He hasn't displayed a great workrate in the past and he will need to in this fight.

the thing that intrigues me is how much pop alvarez has on his jabs. floyd (as with all shoulder roll fighters) is most vulnerable to the jab IMO, meaning if you are going to hit him flush in the face its probably going to be with the jab. canelo lands heavy jabs often, in fact i think the jab is what he dropped trout with if i remember right? maybe not, im too lazy to look it up right now lol. its an interesting fight because, canelo is big enough to bully and bull rush floyd to the ropes if he wants to, the kids legs are like tree trunks, if im his trainer im telling him to rush floyd to the ropes or corner and pound away as much as possible. canelos punches will do more damage to floyd than floyds will to canelo, so if you gotta eat a couple to give a couple go for it. floyd is very good on the ropes yes, but canelos feet are dreadfully slow compared to floyds, he needs to neutralize that advantage pushing him to the ropes and cutting off the ring does that. canelo is a very live dog IMO. hes not just coming for a paycheck like most floyd opponents, hes coming to fucking fight and the kids got balls, may be in over his head but we will see. oscar at 154 gave floyd hell, overall at this point, i think id take this version of canelo over that version of oscar (prime oscar wipes the ring with canelo). floyd responded better than i thought he ever would when busted up by cotto, but lets see how he holds up to canelos power which exceeds cottos i think. i wouldnt be shocked by a canelo KO, and i also wouldnt be shocked by a floyd shutout, thats why this fight intrigues me, i really have no clue how its really going to play out. my official prediction is canelo gets to him and busts him up a bit, floyd may win but i think he touches canvas at least once.

Canelo will only win the rounds if he gets a KD on Mayweather, and that is very unlikely to happen. Mayweather will hit and move for 12 rounds. Canelos hands arent quick enough to land on Floyd. Floyd is going to win every round. Canelo likes to box and thats where he will fail because Mayweather is 10X better than him at boxing. Canelo needs to fight at close range and rough up Floyd on the inside if he wants to make it a fight, but I've never seen Canelo fight like that against anyone. 120-108 Mayweather. THis fight is a mismatch because of styles.

i think that this fight can probably be summed up like the rest of floyds fights. once floyd lands a few counter punches, canelo will think twice before bull rushing him. canelo will have to be fortunate and land early to somehow throw floyd off his gameplan which will be very difficult. so yes, canelo has a chance, but not a big chance.

It's the biggest marquee fight to be made in boxing right now how can you not get excited for it?

Read the thread.

Dmar, do you think Canelo is smart enough to go to the body all night? That would be my strategy if i was fighting Floyd. I would rush and bull him into the ropes and just blast his body over and over. Forget the head Floyd protects that way to much.

Sooner, I'm not dmar, however I think Alvarez should bull MW to the ropes and yes, concentrate on the body. Also, MWs head is not out of the question, you just have to aim higher on the head. The chin is not available, but the rest of the head is. This is why Cotto was able to bust his nose.

If I'm Alvarez, I don't even try and make this a chess match. I bully MW to the ropes. If MW has anything to hurt me with, he has to prove it because my only chance is to outmuscle him on the ropes. (Note: MW is not feather fisted. Also, I don't know why he hasn't thrown that left hook lately. Maybe he's been saving it for this fight.)

I doubt Alvarez fights this type of fight. He may try it later in the fight after MW has built a substantial lead, but my thinking is it will be too late.

My take.

i think alvarez and his trainer are smarter than they are given credit for. he completely changed his style for the trout fight, no one including trout, expected him to fight that way with all the head movement and such an improved defense. id bet that they will throw something new at floyd. yes floyd has seen it all before, but alvarez can steal the first 3 rounds like most floyd opponents and get out to an early lead, while floyd tries to get his timing down. ive always thought floyd basically gives away the first few rounds just to get a feel for his opponent, so why not completely change styles at round 4? make him start his adjusting over. yes he can still beat you on his natural ability, but make him even a little bit uncomfortable. you cannot beat floyd by fighting the same style for 12 rounds, hes seen it all he can handle it all, its like a pitcher who throws 100 mph throwing nothing but fastballs. eventually big league hitters are going to tee off on it, they can hit 100mph. floyd will start to tee off on you if you dont mix it up. bull rush for a few rounds, then step back and box/counter for a couple sure you may get beat up a bit but change floyds sights, throw his timing off, then go back to the bull rush and you may be able to catch him. thatd be my strategy if im canelos trainer at least. take the first few he gives you, then give him a few, do the floyd to floyd, then go back to what worked. he gets your timing down, then change your timing and make him readjust later on. hes a tremendous boxer, but hes human lol i think canelos teams going to put together a solid strategy to beat floyd i really do. canelo needs to know going in that he probably wont win enough rounds to get a decision, accept that right out of the gate, and try to set up the home run shot all night. you got 36 minutes to land a bomb or 2, most floyd opponents get into trying to win rounds. f winning rounds try to bust his ass up til he cant get off the canvas. canelo has the punch to put floyd down, his defense is crackable now, and i think canelo puts a nice big chink in his armor on september 14

Hey guys I also wonder if Canelo is gifted enough to do what Oscar did to Floyd? Oscar knew exactly how to beat him. Honestly if I am Canelo I am watching that tape over and over to see what worked.

BG, that's a good assessment of the fight. I have no logical problem with it. However, it takes for granted that Alvarez will be able to control the action against the smartest ring general in the sport.

I agree that if Alvarez was able to control the action, it would go exactly how you stated. However, after MW puts a few combos on Alvarez, he may get a little confused.

We're (BG, me and Sooner) looking at this fight from the corner of Alvarez because we want to see a competitive fight. I think this makes for great conversation. However ( there's always a however or a nevertheless. LOL) I would bet my bottom dollar that Mayweather knows exactly how many ways Alvarez can come at him and he will prepare for those.

Look at the fight from Floyd's "point of view" and you may come away with a totally different idea about this thing.

Soonermark890 wrote:Dmar, do you think Canelo is smart enough to go to the body all night? That would be my strategy if i was fighting Floyd. I would rush and bull him into the ropes and just blast his body over and over. Forget the head Floyd protects that way to much.

...sooner yes a body attack on a constant basis is one of the musts.everyone here thus far is saying alvarez should bull rush Floyd.thats a amateurish move that will cost alvarez the fight.there are lets say 4 things at least in training they need to work on until it becomes automatic.1.knowlege of distance.alvarez has basic knowledge that needs to be enhanced.first it isn't a must to be in close before you attack the body.it can be done very effective at mid range to start with.slip a jab by bending the knees and one fast step at a angle moving forward as you throw with bad intentions a right to the body that's exposed .same can be done countering floyds right hand lead.a hook over the top or again a hook to the body that's exposed.2.jab your way in.floyd does have a problem if a guy works of a jab closes distance with it but punches in combos off it..Oscar did it well then didn't use it the second half of the fight.it cost him a win.even Ortiz backed him up into the ropes but hes one dumb fighter.there are 2 things to do when floyds in a defence mold against the ropes.hook shots around the elbows which can be devastating..a uppercut up the middle will get Floyd 3 out of 4 times.notice when up against the ropes Floyd stands straight up.leans head back and is in no position to punch back.several times Oscar headhunted instead of placing shots intelligently...remember ortizs headbutt.it should of been a uppercut instead.2 perfect examples of mastering that is Marciano and basilio..
floyds defence is not one of a pep a sweet pea or even a gavilyn.its good when you got guys who don't fight intelligently and play follow the leader.floyd would have his hands full against a basiillo or a Armstrong.yes he will get hit and more often then you think.alvarez isn't a master like them but a strong training camp working on that and we got a fight.
for those who think a few right jand leads will stop alvarez from being aggressive I disagee.unless alvarez is a no balls type of fighter or doesn't execute or work a game plan that's not going to happen..would basilio Armstrong or even a fritzie zivic be discourage by a right hand lead and by a guy who is not a volume puncher.hell no.its the other way around.floyd gets discourage by the constant pressure apllied intelligently..thats one style that is floyds dilemma 3.smart angles with a simple movement..a straight right hand down the pike countering a Floyd jab.a simple move forward a bit and to the left creates a golden opportunity to land thoses.again duran Marciano Armstrong basilio andothers executed that to perfection.4.dont headhunt.the opportunity will present itself.just punch and hit something.hit the bicepts the sholders the forearms.ask archie moore roland lastarza lou ambers for example how effective that is.
this fight is not gonna be won or lost in the ring.it will be won or lost in alvarezs training camp..if a Charlie goldman or a lou duva for example where in alvarezs camp look for a upset.
alvarez suprized everyone with a first rate defence against trout.now use a intelligent offense excecuted time and time again in camp until it becomes automatic.
this is a fight where a great trainer and camp does make a difference..
I think in alvarez they have a willing pupil..the question is do they have a real teacher.

Frank wrote:BG, that's a good assessment of the fight. I have no logical problem with it. However, it takes for granted that Alvarez will be able to control the action against the smartest ring general in the sport.

I agree that if Alvarez was able to control the action, it would go exactly how you stated. However, after MW puts a few combos on Alvarez, he may get a little confused.

We're (BG, me and Sooner)  looking at this fight from the corner of Alvarez because we want to see a competitive fight. I think this makes for great conversation. However ( there's always a however or a nevertheless. LOL) I would bet my bottom dollar that Mayweather knows exactly how many ways Alvarez can come at him and he will prepare for those.

Look at the fight from Floyd's "point of view" and you may come away with a totally different idea about this thing.

true frank, floyds been fighting since he was in diapers. everything and anything you throw at him, he has seen before and most all of them he has an answer for. i know im asking a lot of alvarez to try and control the pace of the fight against the best ring general in the game today but i just feel like no one even tries to agianst floyd. by round 4 everyone concedes to fight his fight, switch it up throw him a curveball, what do you have to lose? theres no shame in going balls to the wall and getting KOd id rather see that than just be in survival mode for the last 8 rounds like shane and guerrero did. looking at it from floyds corner there isnt much advice to give him. be yourself stick and move, use the whole ring, and dont get trapped on the ropes and youll potshot to an easy UD.

dmar5143 wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:Dmar, do you think Canelo is smart enough to go to the body all night? That would be my strategy if i was fighting Floyd. I would rush and bull him into the ropes and just blast his body over and over. Forget the head Floyd protects that way to much.

...sooner yes a body attack on a constant basis is one of the musts.everyone here thus far is saying alvarez should bull rush Floyd.thats  a amateurish move that will cost alvarez the fight.there are lets say 4 things  at least  in training they need to work on until it becomes automatic.1.knowlege of distance.alvarez has basic knowledge that needs to be enhanced.first it isn't a must to be in close before you attack the body.it can be done very effective at mid range to start with.slip a jab by bending the knees and one fast step at a angle moving forward as you throw with bad intentions a right to the body that's exposed .same can be done countering floyds right hand lead.a hook over the top or again a hook to the body that's exposed.2.jab your way in.floyd does have a problem if a guy works of a jab closes distance with it but punches in combos off it..Oscar did it well then didn't use it the second half of the fight.it cost him a win.even Ortiz backed him up into the ropes but hes one dumb fighter.there are 2 things to do when floyds in a defence mold against the ropes.hook shots around the elbows which can be devastating..a uppercut up the middle will get Floyd 3 out of 4 times.notice when up against the ropes Floyd stands straight up.leans head back and is in no position to punch back.several times Oscar headhunted instead of placing shots intelligently...remember ortizs headbutt.it should of been a uppercut instead.2 perfect examples of mastering that is Marciano and basilio..
floyds defence is not one of a pep a sweet pea or even a gavilyn.its good when you got guys who don't fight intelligently and play follow the leader.floyd would have his hands full against a basiillo or a Armstrong.yes he will get hit and more often then you think.alvarez isn't a master like them but a strong training camp working on that and we got a fight.
for those who think a few right jand leads will stop alvarez from being aggressive I disagee.unless alvarez is a no balls type of fighter or doesn't execute or work a game plan that's not going to happen..would basilio Armstrong or even a fritzie zivic be discourage by a right hand lead and by a guy who is not a volume puncher.hell no.its the other way around.floyd gets discourage by the constant pressure apllied intelligently..thats one style that is floyds dilemma 3.smart angles with a simple movement..a straight right hand down the pike countering a Floyd jab.a simple move forward a bit and to the left creates a golden opportunity to land thoses.again duran Marciano Armstrong basilio andothers executed that to perfection.4.dont headhunt.the opportunity will present itself.just punch and hit something.hit the bicepts the sholders the forearms.ask archie moore roland lastarza lou ambers for example how effective that is.
this fight is not gonna be won or lost in the ring.it will be won or lost in alvarezs training camp..if a Charlie goldman or a lou duva for example where in alvarezs camp look for a upset.
alvarez suprized everyone with a first rate defence against trout.now use a intelligent offense excecuted time and time again in camp until it becomes automatic.
this is a fight where a great trainer  and camp does make a difference..
I think in alvarez they have a willing pupil..the question is do they have a real teacher.

i completely agree that it is a bit amateurish to bull rush, but who cares really? alvarez is not going to outbox floyd, no way no how. his advantages are size, strength and power. floyds footwork and footspeed will give him fits if he cant cut down the ring. thats why i think a mix of styles is best for alvarez, bully him a little, box a little, bully a little more, keep him guessing. if alvarez tries to box floyd all night, he gets his face beaten to a pulp and lands very few shots himself. his hands are slower than floyds, floyd will catch his punches all night long. hes gotta get close andthrow from odd angles where floyd cant see them coming. the further away you are the easier it is for the other guy to see what you are throwing and react. inside you can throw shots that are out of sight and sneak them in. mid range is def a good option because the shots will have more pop on them. i truly think alvarez wants to be great and is willing to listen to his trainers which is a huge plus for him. he shocked me against trout by being a totally different fighter. before that i kind of took him as a kid who had everything handed to him and thought he could do no wrong. hes not that at all. oscar is fully invested in this kid and he will have every resource at his disposal. for 22 years old hes done pretty damn well for himself. win or lose i think hes got a very bright future. hell he hits hard already by the time he fully matures around 25-26, hes going to be throwing serious hurting bombs. im excited for the fight and if the undercard shapes up to have some of the fights they are discussing itll be a damn good night on sept 14

Well, I admit this thread has enhanced my interest.

I don't really have a problem with any post on here. Dmar and BG have different views. I'll say this. Though I'm not changing my opinion about what Alvarez needs to do, he should come prepared to do everything that BG and Dmar suggest. The problem with a lot of fighters is that they come in with one strategy. If something doesn't work against MW, SWITCH up and switch fast to another attack.

Don't be a slave to pre fight prep. Some of the best advice I ever heard Angelo Dundee give to both Ali and Leonard was the following: "It's working. Keep doing it." Even the most brilliant trainers must be honest if their attack isn't working. This is why I liked Leonard and even Aaron Pryor. If something wasn't working, they had the talent to switch their game plan.

heres my thing, its $75 for this fight, i usually watch it with a group of about 10 friends. usually throw in $20 a piece covers the fight food and bevs. if i watch and floyd potshots his way to an easy UD, fine its a master at work. im out $20 got a night of fights and to hang out with the boys. but if alvarez is the one to knock this cocky son of a bitch the fuck out and i missed it? id hate myself for not ponying up the cash lol granted thats exactly what floyd wants, you to watch to see him lose, i dont care. that would be amazing to see

BG thats a great night out for 20 dollars.10 guys lol lots of noise for sure.how many do you think would be rooting for Floyd.i wish I knew a bunch that would do that.ill catch a stream for 75 dollars is not my cup of tea but 20 your way yep.i wish I could be there.

dmar5143 wrote:BG thats a great night out for 20 dollars.10 guys lol lots of noise for sure.how many do you think would be rooting for Floyd.i wish I knew a bunch that would do that.ill catch a stream for 75 dollars is not my cup of tea but 20 your way yep.i wish I could be there.

yea its a good time. gets loud and energetic during the big fights. id say about 3-4 are big floyd guys, 3-4 are alvarez guys, the other 2 or 3 are ball busters and dont like either lol its mostly the group of guys i grew up training with at the boxing gym. we all still go and do the circuit classes and spar a bit to keep in shape. usually watch all the ppvs and big fights together. definitely lucky to have a group who shares the interest. some are more into the MMA these days so i gotta concede a bit and watch some of those cards as well but its all in fun. $75 is a lot for 1 person to pay especially if you arent attending the fight. never did the theatre thing but ive heard its a pretty cool scene too

i agree with everybodys assessments of the fight. like frank, i have no problem with the strategy ideas that everybody has, but it also comes down to who the better fighter is. again, i do think that canelo has a chance to win although its not a huge chance. you can have the best gameplan in the world, but if your opponent is just head and shoulders better than you, then your gameplan doesnt really matter. now im not saying that that is necessarily the case in this fight, but i am saying that floyd is definitely a better fighter and has a lot more experience in all aspects of the fight game.

i like what frank said about looking at it from mayweathers point of view. we can all look at what canelo has to do to win the fight, but thats because we are all assuming that floyd has pretty much won this fight already. the only way that canelo wins is either floyd losing a step (which doesnt seem likely since he looked sharp in his last fight) or canelo having a perfect gameplan in order to gain some sort of advantage over him.

i cant say that i will be shocked if canelo wins, but i would be surprised.

Very surprised, Power. LOL

I'm going to watch because Floyd is the best fighter of this generation. I can't stand the guy but he is damn good.

I can't understand why fighters don't throw hard shots at his right shoulder for the first 4 or 5 rounds. Floyd won't want to continue with the shoulder roll if his right shoulder gets turned to hamburger.

Norm1023 wrote:I'm going to watch because Floyd is the best fighter of this generation. I can't stand the guy but he is damn good.

I can't understand why fighters don't throw hard shots at his right shoulder for the first 4 or 5 rounds. Floyd won't want to continue with the shoulder roll if his right shoulder gets turned to hamburger.

Good call. I think also Dmar said something similar about that when a fighter gets in close to him. I cant believe I never thought of that one myself.

no friends that watch boxing so this will probably be a theatre for me. much cheaper than paying 75.00 at home. or if I get lazy I'll stream it.

Floyd is a great matchmaker (rivals the top guys in the business). He saw the Canelo train coming and thought, "I'll fight his ass now as this kid is getting better." In 15-18 months would have been better for Canelo.