Ray Leonard's opponents at Welterweight

Ray Leonard opponents at welterweight.

Please list the opponents that Sugar Ray Robinson defeated at WW that were better than the following fighters.

1.Wilfred Benitez: At 17 years old, Wilfred Benitez, one of the greatest counterpunchers and defensive geniuses in the history of boxing, easily outboxes the legendary hall of fame fighter Antonio Cervantes . Wilfred becomes the youngest champ in history. Of course, this was only matched by his brilliant performance in outclassing the monster that was Carlos Palomino.

2.Roberto Duran: By all accounts, Roberto Duran may have been the greatest lightweight champ in history. I surly think he was. Upon challenging Ray Leonard, he had a record of 69-1 with 55 Kos.

3.Tommy Hearns: Never before, never again. A 6 ft. 2 welterweight who had the power of a heavyweight. Lightening fast ring general. At 32-0 with 30 Kos, maybe the most feared welterweight in history.

Hate to say it, but this thread may get about 1 response. Reason being, nobody can answer that question. LOL

frank give it a break..first did leanard realy beat duran.duran was losing by a point maybe when out of no where he said fuck it...gaviln twice ray beat him a greater fighter then bentiz..he beat jake lamotta 4 times when ray was at welter jake at middle.ray weight 145 or less in three of thoses wins.overall jake matches up well with thoses guys.marty servo twice.servo was darn good a former welter champ and ray handed him his first 2 losses.artlie levine was a middle contender ray was a welter..artie who.he would of koed hearns.yes tommy was a greater fighter no doubt then artie but artie was better then barkley who hit tommys glass chin.artie could hit ten times harder then barley.hit harder then duran at similar weights.much harder..georgie abrhams a top middle contender for years.ray was a welter..see back then welters fighting middles was common place.fritzie zivic twice..zivic was rough tough and extra dirty..george costner..who.ray beat him twice and for a 2 or so year period george could beat any welter not named robinson.ray won the title from tommy bell.a good fighter who was never the same after that..duran yes was a lightweight.so was sammy angott a great lightweight champ who ray beat twice..do you realy want to match up career wise who robinson beat vs leanord...lets add fullmer and basilio at a old age.olson 3 or 4 times.castelanni armstrong turpin ..again robinson beat more top elite fighters in shear numbers then leanard had fights in his whole career..he retired for 2 and a half years at the end of his prime..something like 131-3his prime was over.. yet he came back and beat great fighters top fighters for years well past his real prime.there is no comparrison in greatness at any weight.again leanard could not fight the career or the fights robinson had.he litterly would of been killed in the ring.

I limited the question to the welterweight division.

Frank wrote:I limited the question to the welterweight division.

....i ansered with rays fights with his weight at or under 147...lamotta qualifies.3of thoses fights ray was 145 or less..gaviln twice.etc etc.that should be enough right there.surely that was a accomplishment that leanard cant match.surely we are not going to penalize robinson for beating top middles as a welter are we.you would think that would be a disadvantage for robinson.since ray weighted 144 n half jake 160 or slighly over were not going to accept that..hmmm.especialy when several guys on here say a guys moving up in weight and is fighting a guy 3 to 5 pounds more and they say thats too big.16 pounds is a huge advantage in smaller guys especialy when the bigger guy also happens to be a all time great.ill ask you a question.when did ray leanard actualy do that how many times...none is the anser..

dmar5143 wrote:

Frank wrote:I limited the question to the welterweight division.

....i ansered with rays fights with his weight at or under 147...lamotta qualifies.3of thoses fights ray was 145 or less..gaviln twice.etc etc.that should be enough right there.surely that was a accomplishment that leanard cant match.surely we are not going to penalize robinson for beating top middles as a welter are we.you would think that would be a disadvantage for robinson.since ray weighted 144 n half jake 160 or slighly over were not going to accept that..hmmm.especialy when several guys on here say a guys moving up in weight and is fighting a guy 3 to 5 pounds more and they say thats too big.16 pounds is a huge advantage in smaller guys especialy when the bigger guy also happens to be a all time great.ill ask you a question.when did ray leanard actualy do that how many times...none is the anser..

Dmar, I'm not debating here, just trying to understand. (I don't debate.) You're saying that Jake LaMotta and Kid Gavilan were better than Hearns, Duran and Benitez at WW, correct? I'm not looking for an article, though yours is very interesting and informative. I'm looking for names.

Also, while Robinson's defeat of MWs as a WW is amazing to say the least, I'm looking for Robinson's WW opponents in this thread. Those opponents that were better than the three I mentioned. Nobody would question that as a whole, Robinson is more accomplished than Leonard.

you know what im saying..robinsons weight was at welter or below for thoses fights.yes gaviln at welter was greater then duran and benitz.robinson beat him twice.at welter..lamotta fights were a greater accomplishment then rays win over duran if you want to call that a win..the guy beat ray when he moved up in class to welter did he not.lamotta i feel and so do others that he was a greater fighter then hearns who by the way beat leanord the second time in reality.so when a small welter beats a full fledged all time great middle you say its no good since ray robinson was the only one at or below welter in thoses fights.he accomplished thoses wins as a welterweight.thats fact.its not debate frank.its your trying to narrow a talk to suit your needs.if robinson weighted 145 pounds and beat rex layne a top heavyweight that dont count.lol.heaven forbid he did it as a welterweight did he not.
ifyour trying to say ray leanard was a greater welter then robinson you just may stand alone in that line of reasoning.by your line of reasoning armstrong didnt win the welter title.see he wasnt at welter.he weight slighly over 133..that dont count then.he was a lightweight.not a welter nor even 140 pounder..

frank ill say gaviln.greater then bentiz or duran at welter.bentiz moved up in class after the leanard fight and his only notable win at welter was palomino.weston mediocre...duran after the second leanard fight moved up in weight.he had maybe total 8 fights at welter including 2 with ray so nothing exceptional at welter outside of beating ray.ill add henry armstrong.yes hank was not at his peak when he fought robinson but still in the last year before that fight he beat zivic willie joyce tippy larkin lou jenkins and sammy angott and lost a descion to beau jack..thoses fights leading up to robinson are more impressive wins then both duran and benitz had at welter.i hope this helps and ill still stand by what robinson did fighting at 147 or less and beating top middles to add a little sause to the hamburger.

I think those three fighters are pretty special, and its what makes Leonard a special fighter despite having a pretty short career.

Only Kid Gavilan at 147 would be on the same level as those three. Robinson fought several guys who were a step below those three, but a step above most of the other guys Ray fought.

boxinglawyer wrote: I think those three fighters are pretty special, and its what makes Leonard a special fighter despite having a pretty short career.

Only Kid Gavilan at 147 would be on the same level as those three. Robinson fought several guys who were a step below those three, but a step above most of the other guys Ray fought.

Agreed.

boxinglawyer wrote: I think those three fighters are pretty special, and its what makes Leonard a special fighter despite having a pretty short career.

Only Kid Gavilan at 147 would be on the same level as those three. Robinson fought several guys who were a step below those three, but a step above most of the other guys Ray fought.

this is what i was thinking. gavilan was a beast and robinson beat him twice. i have to disagree with dmar though that gavilan was better than duran even at welterweight. duran IMO is the greatest lightweight ever (top 10 fighter ever IMO also) and still was a monster of a fighter at welter. he still had a ton of power and the same skill. i would definitely say that gavilan was better than benitez though.

i think that overall, robinsons run at welter was better because of its longevity and how he beat many tough opponents, but i believe that duran was a better fighter than anybody that robinson ever face although he came up in weight. with that said, im sure that beating lamotta, fullmer, or basilio was probably a tougher challenge even though they werent as great as duran. i also think that if hearns fought robinson it would turn out a lot like the leonard fight. hearns' length, power, and speed would bother robinson, but robinson would eventually get to him and win by KO.