Re: showtime championship boxing thread

**captainanddew** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:02 am

UBeeg9cats wrote:As long as something unforeseen doesn't happen in the rest of this fight, where can Williams go from here? Could he get the Kirkland-Molina winner? Would he want him?

He certainly shouldn't want to face Martinez a 3rd time.

hardcorebee24 Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:05 am

captainanddew wrote:William Detloff argued on ringtv.com in an article a couple of years ago that volume punchers burned out early. He had a list of examples. Jeff Fenech, Ray Mancini, Ricky Hatton, Juan Diaz, etc...

What does a volume puncher have to fall back on? Not outboxing guys, not big punchers and KOing guys. Guys that just train their ass off and try to outwork you.

PW is 30, he's taken alot of shots, been KO'd violently. He can still fight, but he is likely no longer near the top of any division he will campaign in.

He'll get a shot again after this. I say put Williams in there with Kirkland. That would be a good fight right now.

powerpuncher Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:07 am

hardcorebee24 wrote:
captainanddew wrote:William Detloff argued on ringtv.com in an article a couple of years ago that volume punchers burned out early. He had a list of examples. Jeff Fenech, Ray Mancini, Ricky Hatton, Juan Diaz, etc...

What does a volume puncher have to fall back on? Not outboxing guys, not big punchers and KOing guys. Guys that just train their ass off and try to outwork you.

PW is 30, he's taken alot of shots, been KO'd violently. He can still fight, but he is likely no longer near the top of any division he will campaign in.

He'll get a shot again after this. I say put Williams in there with Kirkland. That would be a good fight right now.

i agree. i would like to see it.

**captainanddew** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:07 am

PW is an interesting fighter. At 6 ft 2, with a very long reach, he should have been taught to box. If he jabbed and stayed on the outside he could outbox guys. But they have always taught him to just throw punches, forget defense, just offense.

**captainanddew** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:09 am

I think Kirkland beats Molina, but I don't assume anything. Molina had the draw against Lara (could argue he deserved to win). He slapped Cintron around for 12 rounds.

hardcorebee24 Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:11 am

captainanddew wrote:PW is an interesting fighter. At 6 ft 2, with a very long reach, he should have been taught to box. If he jabbed and stayed on the outside he could outbox guys. But they have always taught him to just throw punches, forget defense, just offense.

He doesn't have the power and torque on his punches to fight like that, or that's what his trainers and such have claimed. You can't teach power. The way he fights was the best was the best way for him to win. He's just a different unorthodox type of guy.

hardcorebee24 Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:12 am

captainanddew wrote:I think Kirkland beats Molina, but I don't assume anything. Molina had the draw against Lara (could argue he deserved to win). He slapped Cintron around for 12 rounds.

That's a good fight, both have a lot to prove. Molina is very good. To me that's a pick em fight.

**UBeeg9cats** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:13 am

good chins + weaker punches = no danger moments

powerpuncher Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:15 am

captainanddew wrote:I think Kirkland beats Molina, but I don't assume anything. Molina had the draw against Lara (could argue he deserved to win). He slapped Cintron around for 12 rounds.

i think that molina wins

**UBeeg9cats** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:18 am

Williams was matched correctly in this fight. He got to fight a lower tiered, weaker puncher that had a recent great win.

**captainanddew** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:21 am

UBeeg9cats wrote:Williams was matched correctly in this fight. He got to fight a lower tiered, weaker puncher that had a recent great win.

yup. Ishida prior to the Kirkland fight had fought for an interim belt. He landed a short shot and Kirkland didn't see it coming. Decent fighter but nothing dangerous.

**captainanddew** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:21 am

Memo to Paul Williams:

"NO I DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING".

Guest Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:22 am

"chavez, knowwhatimsayin....unintelligable,knowwhatimsayin....kirkland, knowwhatimsayin"

powerpuncher Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:22 am

i literally cant understand half of what williams says. the main thing i understand is when he says "you know what im sayin" every other sentence.

**captainanddew** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:22 am

damn, how many times can you say, "You know what I'm saying" in a 1 minute timespan.

hardcorebee24 Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:23 am

captainanddew wrote:
UBeeg9cats wrote:Williams was matched correctly in this fight. He got to fight a lower tiered, weaker puncher that had a recent great win.

yup. Ishida prior to the Kirkland fight had fought for an interim belt. He landed a short shot and Kirkland didn't see it coming. Decent fighter but nothing dangerous.

He's a bum that was supposed to be fodder for Kirkland and ended up winning, give me a break. This guy was no match for the most feared man across three divisions. Ishida is a joke that got lucky against an under trained up and comer.

**UBeeg9cats** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:26 am

hardcorebee24 wrote:
captainanddew wrote:
UBeeg9cats wrote:Williams was matched correctly in this fight. He got to fight a lower tiered, weaker puncher that had a recent great win.

yup. Ishida prior to the Kirkland fight had fought for an interim belt. He landed a short shot and Kirkland didn't see it coming. Decent fighter but nothing dangerous.

He's a bum that was supposed to be fodder for Kirkland and ended up winning, give me a break. This guy was no match for the most feared man across three divisions. Ishida is a joke that got lucky against an under trained up and comer.

Exactly our point. He's 3rd or 4th tiered guy but people in boxing have heard of him because of Kirkland. No real danger but a good fighter to come back from 3 weak performances since Darth Haymon can get it on tv.

hardcorebee24 Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:31 am

UBeeg9cats wrote:
hardcorebee24 wrote:
captainanddew wrote:
UBeeg9cats wrote:Williams was matched correctly in this fight. He got to fight a lower tiered, weaker puncher that had a recent great win.

yup. Ishida prior to the Kirkland fight had fought for an interim belt. He landed a short shot and Kirkland didn't see it coming. Decent fighter but nothing dangerous.

He's a bum that was supposed to be fodder for Kirkland and ended up winning, give me a break. This guy was no match for the most feared man across three divisions. Ishida is a joke that got lucky against an under trained up and comer.

Exactly our point. He's 3rd or 4th tiered guy but people in boxing have heard of him because of Kirkland. No real danger but a good fighter to come back from 3 weak performances since Darth Haymon can get it on tv.

What's is the point in having this guy as a match-up with a headliner? Fuck all this bullshit, sorry if PW can't carry a good fight with a good fighter he has no business being on TV.

**captainanddew** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:33 am

hardcorebee24 wrote:
UBeeg9cats wrote:
hardcorebee24 wrote:
captainanddew wrote:
UBeeg9cats wrote:Williams was matched correctly in this fight. He got to fight a lower tiered, weaker puncher that had a recent great win.

yup. Ishida prior to the Kirkland fight had fought for an interim belt. He landed a short shot and Kirkland didn't see it coming. Decent fighter but nothing dangerous.

He's a bum that was supposed to be fodder for Kirkland and ended up winning, give me a break. This guy was no match for the most feared man across three divisions. Ishida is a joke that got lucky against an under trained up and comer.

Exactly our point. He's 3rd or 4th tiered guy but people in boxing have heard of him because of Kirkland. No real danger but a good fighter to come back from 3 weak performances since Darth Haymon can get it on tv.

What's is the point in having this guy as a match-up with a headliner? Fuck all this bullshit, sorry if PW can't carry a good fight with a good fighter he has no business being on TV.

PW can't carry shit. Never really could. Haymon been getting him big paydays for years. It isn't as if he garnered huge ratings for HBO, drew huge crowds to watch him fight, etc....

Sith Lord Haymon got Berto huge paydays for what amounted to stay busy fights.

**UBeeg9cats** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:37 am

hardcorebee24 wrote:

What's is the point in having this guy as a match-up with a headliner? Fuck all this bullshit, sorry if PW can't carry a good fight with a good fighter he has no business being on TV.

For a guy bumping threads about being right about Bradley ducking Khan for Pacquaio, you are being somewhat hypocritical. Williams's promoter and adviser both still want to make money off of him. They need to get him on tv. There was a solid chance he had nothing left so putting him on against a higher quality fighter means you only get one last hit off of him. They put him against a guy the network miraculously accepted and Paul could beat even in a reduced state. Williams's last 3 performances put him in a position for a softer-touch, comeback fight. Those performances were not good enough to earn him a higher quality opponent. Don't blame Williams for Showtime putting it on the air. Besides, I thought today was a fun day of fights.

**gomez1012** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 am

Williams vs Chavez Jr, Kirkland, Sturm, Margarito II, Cotto

all fan friendly fights regardless of what you think of Williams at this point

Shaun Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:48 am

GrantZilla wrote:Taver is the best announcer in the business. Jesus, who would have thought

I said years before Tarver became an announcer that he would be very good.

hardcorebee24 Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:49 am

Today we saw another robbery and a guy that will never make a dent in a divison again, both made boxing look bad on tv again. I never said I was right about Bradley and one thing has zero to fucking do with the other. Bradley tripled his goddamn worth in bitching out meaning he knew something all the armchair experts didn't. Hes an opponent not a headliner. Its different because of that. Its still Pacquiaos fight, people will watch for Pacquiao people wouldnt and don't care about Bradley and would care less about him fighting Khan.

**gomez1012** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:55 am

hardcorebee24 wrote:Today we saw another robbery and a guy that will never make a dent in a divison again, both made boxing look bad on tv again. I never said I was right about Bradley and one thing has zero to fucking do with the other. Bradley tripled his goddamn worth in bitching out meaning he knew something all the armchair experts didn't. Hes an opponent not a headliner. Its different because of that. Its still Pacquiaos fight, people will watch for Pacquiao people wouldnt and don't care about Bradley and would care less about him fighting Khan.

this is true

**UBeeg9cats** Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:56 am

hardcorebee24 wrote:Today we saw another robbery and a guy that will never make a dent in a divison again, both made boxing look bad on tv again. I never said I was right about Bradley and one thing has zero to fucking do with the other. Bradley tripled his goddamn worth in bitching out meaning he knew something all the armchair experts didn't. Hes an opponent not a headliner. Its different because of that. Its still Pacquiaos fight, people will watch for Pacquiao people wouldnt and don't care about Bradley and would care less about him fighting Khan.

The result of the Cloud fight sucked but Campillo shouldn't have taken the last 2 rounds off against the named fighter with a dirty promoter. Fight all 12 rounds and he wins. Williams can and very well might factor in 154 soon. You say Bradley tripled his worth by fighting Pac and you are right. However, Williams also probably came close to tripling his worth. He could land a bigger fight like a Chavez or Canelo now. If he fights Kirkland for probably not much more money than Ishida and gets KO'ed, he would retire. He would've been worthless after a weaker payday. This is making Williams and more importantly Haymon money so it is the way they will go.

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