Question

Alot of boxing writers have stated that this is the first time in a while that Mayweather has faced a top welterweight who is in his prime. That is true.

But would you pick Ortiz vs the following guys of a few years ago?
2008 Cotto-version we saw in the Margarito fight
2008 Margarito-version we saw in the Cotto fight
PW at 147
2007 Kermit Cintron-prior to being beatdown by Margarito

I would definitely give him Cintron and probably Cotto. I think PW and Margo (with his special wraps) would take him.

Gumby wrote:I would definitely give him Cintron and probably Cotto. I think PW and Margo (with his special wraps) would take him.

My take is he would have beaten Cintron.

I make the Cotto fight a toss-up.
I would have favored Margarito and PW over him as I believe both of those guys could take his shots and keep coming.

I think Cotto beats Ortiz too. I think Margarito is a BAD matchup for him. Paul would beat Victor but in a closer fight than should be. I guess I will give Ortiz the victory against Cintron but I'm not completely convinced.

Maybe against Cintron, that's an intriguing fight.

Ortiz is a southpaw after all, and we know how Paul loves them

Margarito and Cotto eat Ortiz for breakfast though.

I think they all beat Ortiz. Cotto & Margarito wreck him to the body. Cintron hits too hard for Ortiz. PW jabs his way around him, Victor wouldn't reach him, plus, when he tastes a fighter's power, he backs off.

Williams got schooled by Quintana, he's not nearly as big or as talented as Ortiz is. I could see Victor giving him trouble.

Question 2: Why is it that Floyd didn't face PW at 147, Cheato or Cotto prior to their 2008 fight, or Cintron prior to the Margarito beatdown?

My view:
During 2007, Floyd could have fought PW, Margarito, Cotto, Cintron, Mosley, ODH, Hatton, Clottey, etc...

I understand the ODH and Hatton fights during that year, but who would honestly have said at that point that either ODH or Hatton were better than the other guys in a fight at 147 pounds???

Floyd beat the 2 cash cows and then "retired". Brilliant move.
PW got bored by middle 2008 and moved up in weight.
Cheato beat up Cintron
Cheato beat up Cotto

Floyd probably beats all of the guys above, but he didn't face them.

He retired, let them fight each other, and then after alot of carnage he decided to come back when the landscape was relatively clear.

Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Ali wrote:Williams got schooled by Quintana, he's not nearly as big or as talented as Ortiz is. I could see Victor giving him trouble.

Quintana is a better technical fighter than Ortiz.

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Cotto landed alot of big shots on Cheato over the first 6 rounds or so. Could Ortiz have stood up to those?

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Cotto landed alot of big shots on Cheato over the first 6 rounds or so. Could Ortiz have stood up to those?

Ask Marcos Maidana.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Cotto landed alot of big shots on Cheato over the first 6 rounds or so. Could Ortiz have stood up to those?

Ask Marcos Maidana.

Game...set and match!!!

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Cotto landed alot of big shots on Cheato over the first 6 rounds or so. Could Ortiz have stood up to those?

Ask Marcos Maidana.

I think Berto has more speed and power than Maidana and Ortiz kept fighting.

I think his team was making a mistake allowing him to fight at 140. Cutting that much weight isn't great for you and for most fighters being weight drained to that extent doesn't help a sketchy chin.

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Cotto landed alot of big shots on Cheato over the first 6 rounds or so. Could Ortiz have stood up to those?

Ask Marcos Maidana.

I think Berto has more speed and power than Maidana and Ortiz kept fighting.

I think his team was making a mistake allowing him to fight at 140. Cutting that much weight isn't great for you and for most fighters being weight drained to that extent doesn't help a sketchy chin.

Two years later. at 22 we didn't hear any problems with Ortiz making weight and he was a huge favorite in that fight. He gave Maidana a career with that fight. So, two years ago Ortiz should have been fighting at 147? I don't think so.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Cotto landed alot of big shots on Cheato over the first 6 rounds or so. Could Ortiz have stood up to those?

Ask Marcos Maidana.

I think Berto has more speed and power than Maidana and Ortiz kept fighting.

I think his team was making a mistake allowing him to fight at 140. Cutting that much weight isn't great for you and for most fighters being weight drained to that extent doesn't help a sketchy chin.

Two years later. at 22 we didn't hear any problems with Ortiz making weight and he was a huge favorite in that fight. He gave Maidana a career with that fight. So, two years ago Ortiz should have been fighting at 147? I don't think so.

there was rumors back then about him having problems making weight.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Unlike Mosley, Ortiz comes to fight (well since the Maidana fight ).

Diego408 wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Unlike Mosley, Ortiz comes to fight (well since the Peterson fight ).

Fixed

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Unlike Mosley, Ortiz comes to fight (well since the Peterson fight ).

Fixed

hahahaha I'll give you that actually.

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

Cotto landed alot of big shots on Cheato over the first 6 rounds or so. Could Ortiz have stood up to those?

Ask Marcos Maidana.

I think Berto has more speed and power than Maidana and Ortiz kept fighting.

I think his team was making a mistake allowing him to fight at 140. Cutting that much weight isn't great for you and for most fighters being weight drained to that extent doesn't help a sketchy chin.

Two years later. at 22 we didn't hear any problems with Ortiz making weight and he was a huge favorite in that fight. He gave Maidana a career with that fight. So, two years ago Ortiz should have been fighting at 147? I don't think so.

there was rumors back then about him having problems making weight.

Not the old "unsubstantiated rumor" ploy......I never heard of Ortiz having any problems with weight and I've followed his career from the beginning.

I know Roach has said that Ortiz should've been at 147 for years. He said that before the Berto fight.

captainanddew wrote:Question 2: Why is it that Floyd didn't face PW at 147, Cheato or Cotto prior to their 2008 fight, or Cintron prior to the Margarito beatdown?

I think Oscar at 154 was generally considered a bigger challenge than any of those guys at 147, and a way bigger fight. Hatton was a much bigger fight against a guy with more buzz who stylistically was supposed to be able to give Floyd trouble.

After that I think he wanted big fights. None of the guys listed could provide that and none them kept winning to get a shot against Floyd. Pacquiao did and we know what's happened with that.

Quick run down the list:

Cintron - Got beat by Margo in 05 and didn't beat any top fighters before losing to Margo again in 08.

Margo - Lost to Williams in 07, was promoted by Arum, and Floyd suspected there was something off with him (later got caught using plaster wraps).

Williams - No name freak who lost immediately after his big win against Margo.

Cotto - Lost to Margo late in 08. Had he won that fight I think he could've lured Floyd out of retirement.

When Floyd came back he took on JMM. The #2 p4p fighter at the time with an obvious connection to Pacquiao. Then Mosley who was probably the best welter (other than Pac) at the time and now Ortiz (same deal).

hardcorebee24 wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Margarito would beat Ortiz to death. As soon as Ortiz hits Cotto, Miguel will jump to survival mode like he did agaisnt Pacquiao. Williams Beats down Ortiz too. Ortiz also beats Cintron.

Cotto didn't fold when Shane hit him and ate shit from Margarito until it was too much. Cotto would fuck Ortiz up. Ortiz has beaten ONE guy who was unproven for the most part.

I just like how Ortiz matches up against Cotto. He's a little bit faster and a little bit stronger so I think he'd win a lot of the exchanges when they both mixed it up. Cotto's the better boxer but he fights in spurts too. Cotto's always had the bad habit of covering up with his head open with he gets caught flush and I think Ortiz had enough hand speed to make him pay for that.