boxings biggest upsets

2 of the fights on there i wouldnt consider upsets in hindsight. those fights are tunney vs dempsey and zivic vs armstrong. i didnt live back then so i really have no idea what people thought or what i would have thought, but from my knowledge, yes dempsey was dominant but he was pretty inactive by the time he fought tunney who was a great fighter. maybe people didnt realize how good tunney was. and zivic was a good fighter too. he wasnt a bum. zivic has fought and beaten good opponents and also, that fight was later in armstrongs career and at welterweight so it wasnt his prime or his best weight.

thats my 2 cents. but again, i didnt live back then so i have no idea.

I wasn't alive when Cassius Clay aka Muhammad Ali, upset Sonny Liston. Though I've seen the fight a million times, read about all the details and witnessed every pre and post fight interview associated with it, I have to imagine that you still just had to be there.

A loud mouth, seemingly crazy guy who was knocked down in his last fight (Ali was knocked down by Cooper in round 4 in the fight prior to Liston.) and looks more like one of the "Little Rasacals" than a HW Champ, defeats a nearly invincible, mafia strong arm named Sonny Liston. Hell, Liston once threw a jab and took out 7 of his opponents teeth. He seemed to abuse "Floyd Patterson" who, though protected, was a lightning fast HW champ with a lethal left hook.

Enough about the stats and descriptions. I wasn't born but I do have a story. It comes from somebody who has never been much of a boxing fan. My mother, who was a nightclub singer at the time in "Atlantic City, NJ" was singing at "The Club Harlem." My father, who was a jazz pianist at the time, was also present. The "MC" interrupts the show to announce to a packed house that, "Sonny Liston" was unable to answer the bell for the 7th round. Hold on to your seats. You heard me right. We have a new Heavyweight Champion and his name is Cassius Clay." According to my folks, the announcement bought down the house into a hysterical laughter that would last for about 5 minutes.

As I said, I think you just had to be there. If we have anyone who was a live witness to this on the board, I'd love to hear your story.

powerpuncher wrote:2 of the fights on there i wouldnt consider upsets in hindsight. those fights are tunney vs dempsey and zivic vs armstrong. i didnt live back then so i really have no idea what people thought or what i would have thought, but from my knowledge, yes dempsey was dominant but he was pretty inactive by the time he fought tunney who was a great fighter. maybe people didnt realize how good tunney was. and zivic was a good fighter too. he wasnt a bum. zivic has fought and beaten good opponents and also, that fight was later in armstrongs career and at welterweight so it wasnt his prime or his best weight.

thats my 2 cents. but again, i didnt live back then so i have no idea.

...powerpuncher good points..ill agree.the lewis rahdman fight should be amoung them for lewis fight night was 24-1 favorite.i dont remember the odds of the first tunney fight but big time inactivity hurt jack for he was out of the ring almost 3 years and was living the hollywood soft life.i do have the entire coverage of the second fight from the ny times.thats in the days papers realy covered fights in complete detail.today thats non existent...after the fight dempsey said he would appeal to the illinios boxing commision for jack felt he koed gene and was robbed of the ko..
reported fight crowd of almost 150 000 people and a unreal live gate of 2.8 million way back then.why thats like saying a 70 million dollar live gate today..lol immagine what that fight would of done in a ppv..actualy hell it didnt need it.the coverage of that fight by the way was on the FRONT page not in the sports section.
on the braddock victory max baer said hes gonna retire and if he comes back max said to the reporter ill buy you a yacht...
on the coverage of dempsey wining the title jack was offered 10 000 a week for 12 weeks to appear in vaudville..in 1919 you know how much money that was.

frank i was a live witness to the clay-liston fight.i saw it with a few friends at that time it was called closed circuit tv.i had bet on clay and predicted the win..to me sonny was made by the newspapers a vastly overated fighter and puncher ...at the touching of gloves and the refs instructions ali made faces at liston..after the first or second round ali looked at the audience and opened his mouth wide..the confidence was there..it was no suprize to me and my friend nick morrow when the fight was stoped.you could see liston tireing bad and clay going flatfooted and hitting sonny with good shots.
the papers and general public created a unbeatable monster in liston which i realized he was not..in that months issue of esquire magaine a writer had a article on how liston not only would destroy clay but would defeat the holy trinity of louis dempsey and marciano with ease..the following month the writer apologized for his ignorance on boxing.
bushy graham in a talk with him a few days before the fight agreed with my thoughts.the guys got a great jab and goes to the body decent bushy said but hes not a huge puncher.bushy said this clay kid fights like i use to.he will make a monkey out of liston.bet the fight dan...so to the general public and the newspapers the fight was a huge upset..to bushy myself and a few others it wasnt.we expected a clay win.

dmar5143 wrote:frank i was a live witness to the clay-liston fight.i saw it with a few friends at that time it was called closed circuit tv.i had bet on clay and predicted the win..to me sonny was made by the newspapers a vastly overated fighter and puncher ...at the touching of gloves and the refs instructions ali made faces at liston..after the first or second round ali looked at the audience and opened his mouth wide..the confidence was there..it was no suprize to me and my friend nick morrow when the fight was stoped.you could see liston tireing bad and clay going flatfooted and hitting sonny with good shots.
the papers and general public created a unbeatable monster in liston which i realized he was not..in that months issue of esquire magaine a writer had a article on how liston not only would destroy clay but would defeat the holy trinity of louis dempsey and marciano with ease..the following month the writer apologized for his ignorance on boxing.
bushy graham in a talk with him a few days before the fight agreed with my thoughts.the guys got a great jab and goes to the body decent bushy said but hes not a huge puncher.bushy said this clay kid fights like i use to.he will make a monkey out of liston.bet the fight dan...so to the general public and the newspapers the fight was a huge upset..to bushy myself and a few others it wasnt.we expected a clay win.

Incredible, dmar. Only one writer out of all the "Boxing Press" picked Clay to win. The odds were 7-1 Liston. You guys should've made out like bandits.
This makes me question what an upset is in the first place.

The sporting press seems to be very impressed with punching power primarily in the HW division. A HW with a big punch that can land consistently looks invincible when he wins. However, boxing is a self defense technique created to defeat a man like Sonny Liston, who telegraphs punches and relies on power to win. Has there ever been a "Boxing Press" that knew boxing? For example, Tyson also telegraphed his punches and came in with his head straight up. He was taylor made for a fundamentally sound boxer who had no fear of him. Though the odds of the Tyson - Douglass fight were 45-1 Tyson, Angelo Dundee actually picked Douglass to win based on the reasons stated above.

I know hindsight makes geniuses out of us all, however when I look back at any upsets where the boxer defeated the hammer fisted slugger, I really fail to see where it's that big of an upset. It seems to be the rule and not the exception.

A real upset, at least in my opinion, sort of reflects the "Rocky movies." We have a sound, fundamental boxer capable of lightening speed and 10 punch combos vs. a limited slugger whose only talent is strength and determination. Somehow the puncher takes the beating of a life time and beats the boxer. This rarely happens in the HW division. It almost happened when a fighter named "Mike Weaver" took on "Larry Holmes." Weaver had a record of 20-8 and was stopped by both Bobick brothers. Holmes was undefeated and apparently facing his easiest opponent. Weaver gave him a beating seemed to dominate a good part of the fight. However, as time would prove, Weaver did have considerable skills.

Maybe I'm getting carried away, but when I think of Walcott - Marciano, I think of an incredible upset. No need to go over the "Tale of the Tape" for that one. It seems to me that if you knew the sport, you predicted an easy win for Walcott. I think Marciano's career was an upset in and of itself.

frank we did..

Frank wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:frank i was a live witness to the clay-liston fight.i saw it with a few friends at that time it was called closed circuit tv.i had bet on clay and predicted the win..to me sonny was made by the newspapers a vastly overated fighter and puncher ...at the touching of gloves and the refs instructions ali made faces at liston..after the first or second round ali looked at the audience and opened his mouth wide..the confidence was there..it was no suprize to me and my friend nick morrow when the fight was stoped.you could see liston tireing bad and clay going flatfooted and hitting sonny with good shots.
the papers and general public created a unbeatable monster in liston which i realized he was not..in that months issue of esquire magaine a writer had a article on how liston not only would destroy clay but would defeat the holy trinity of louis dempsey and marciano with ease..the following month the writer apologized for his ignorance on boxing.
bushy graham in a talk with him a few days before the fight agreed with my thoughts.the guys got a great jab and goes to the body decent bushy said but hes not a huge puncher.bushy said this clay kid fights like i use to.he will make a monkey out of liston.bet the fight dan...so to the general public and the newspapers the fight was a huge upset..to bushy myself and a few others it wasnt.we expected a clay win.

Incredible, dmar. Only one writer out of all the "Boxing Press" picked Clay to win. The odds were 7-1 Liston. You guys should've made out like bandits.
This makes me question what an upset is in the first place.

The sporting press seems to be very impressed with punching power primarily in the HW division. A HW with a big punch that can land consistently looks invincible when he wins. However, boxing is a self defense technique created to defeat a man like Sonny Liston, who telegraphs punches and relies on power to win. Has there ever been a "Boxing Press" that knew boxing? For example, Tyson also telegraphed his punches and came in with his head straight up. He was taylor made for a fundamentally sound boxer who had no fear of him. Though the odds of the Tyson - Douglass fight were 45-1 Tyson, Angelo Dundee actually picked Douglass to win based on the reasons stated above. I know hindsight makes geniuses out of us all, however when I look back at any upsets where the boxer defeated the hammer fisted slugger, I really fail to see where it's that big of an upset. It seems to be the rule and not the exception.

A real upset, at least in my opinion, sort of reflects the "Rocky movies." We have a sound, fundamental boxer capable of lightening speed and 10 punch combos vs. a limited slugger whose only talent is strength and determination. Somehow the puncher takes the beating of a life time and beats the boxer. This rarely happens in the HW division. It almost happened when a fighter named "Mike Weaver" took on "Larry Holmes." Weaver had a record of 20-8 and was stopped by both Bobick brothers. Holmes was undefeated and apparently facing his easiest opponent. Weaver gave him a beating seemed to dominate a good part of the fight. However, as time would prove, Weaver did have considerable skills.

Maybe I'm getting carried away, but when I think of Walcott - Marciano, I think of an incredible upset. No need to go over the "Tale of the Tape" for that one. It seems to me that if you knew the sport, you predicted an easy win for Walcott. I think Marciano's career was an upset in and of itself.

First I had heard of Angelo Dundee picking Douglas. I knew only of Eddie Futch going on record loudly and to anyone that would listen that Douglas would win by KO. Ron Borges also was on record.

The Great John L. was a bloated fighter whose skills had dissipated from the excesses of drink by the time Corbett got to him.Not a huge surprise IMHO

Well Im not 80 like the rest of you lol but one of the biggest upsets to me is DLH geting punished by Pacquaio. It was really a circus fight and everyone thought DLH would take it easily. DLH got a black eye in sparring and claimed it was Ortiz that did that to him. Valero came out and said it was him and refused to sign with GBP and went to Top Rank instead because he felt disrespected that DLH would lie to hype up his boy. He called DLH lazy, called a Pacquaio knock out and even got the round right. This is crazy to me, especially coming from this Loco.

Diego408 wrote:Well Im not 80 like the rest of you lol but one of the biggest upsets to me is DLH geting punished by Pacquaio. It was really a circus fight and everyone thought DLH would take it easily. DLH got a black eye in sparring and claimed it was Ortiz that did that to him. Valero came out and said it was him and refused to sign with GBP and went to Top Rank instead because he felt disrespected that DLH would lie to hype up his boy. He called DLH lazy, called a Pacquaio knock out and even got the round right. This is crazy to me, especially coming from this Loco.

really? dlh was not only drained for that fight but he was completely finished. i mean credit to pacquiao because nobody really expected what took place that night.

Rum Capital wrote:

Diego408 wrote:Well Im not 80 like the rest of you lol but one of the biggest upsets to me is DLH geting punished by Pacquaio. It was really a circus fight and everyone thought DLH would take it easily. DLH got a black eye in sparring and claimed it was Ortiz that did that to him. Valero came out and said it was him and refused to sign with GBP and went to Top Rank instead because he felt disrespected that DLH would lie to hype up his boy. He called DLH lazy, called a Pacquaio knock out and even got the round right. This is crazy to me, especially coming from this Loco.

really? dlh was not only drained for that fight but he was completely finished. i mean credit to pacquiao because nobody really expected what took place that night.

A lot of people didnt expect DLH to be drained. Pacquaio was the under dog of the fight and everyone expected DLH to win. Who would of known DLH would have come in at the same weight on fight night as he did in the weigh in. Hes an idiot for that, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.