NFL star to become professional boxer. NFL star to get horrible beating.

Ray Edwards, Defensive End for the Minnisota Vikes, is reported to have a professional HW boxing match on May 20th of this year. For all your "Larry Merchant believers" who think that all our HW champs are in the NFL or the NBA, I will predict the following: Without even watching one round of this man fight, I'm very confident that if he is signed to fight the sparring partner of let's say, "Eddie Chambers", he'll be outclassed and beaten rather severely. My call.

I never believed in this "NBA + NFL = HW Boxing Champ" bullshit, not because of what I've heard or read, but because of what I've seen. Nobody loved Too Tall Jones more than I did, but as a boxer..... and there's many more where he came from as "Mark Gastineau", will tell you. For those of you who missed Mark's amazing debut, he was slapped around rather dangerously by an over the hill and overweight sparring partner from the "Larry Holmes" camp. The sparring partner looked more like a fat, middle - aged C.E.O. than a boxer. Scary fight.

If only we could just get some line backer to secretly tackle Wladimir while Haye distracts the ref WWE style

Ali wrote:If only we could just get some line backer to secretly tackle Wladimir while Haye distracts the ref WWE style

Now that's a strategy. However, I honestly don't think Haye will need much help in this endeavor. Win, lose or draw, Haye will make a powerful statement against Wlad.

Frank wrote:

Ali wrote:If only we could just get some line backer to secretly tackle Wladimir while Haye distracts the ref WWE style

Now that's a strategy. However, I honestly don't think Haye will need much help in this endeavor. Win, lose or draw, Haye will make a powerful statement against Wlad.

Music to my ears Frank

I think Edwards will be okay. They won't match him up too tough.

The basketball/football player argument is fairly simple: the best physical athletes would likely succeed in a very physical sport like boxing. It's not saying that these guys could just switch and be the best boxers in the world whenever they felt like it. It's saying that if they grew up in a gym and had a little bit of toughness and dedication to the sport, they would likely do very well.

Gastineau's record looks pretty good on boxrec. Especially considering he began his pro career at 35 after retiring from football. I'm guessing Tim Anderson is the guy who slapped him around? He lost his last fight to Alonzo Highsmith, another guy who looks like he did alright becoming a boxer and fighting bums after retiring from football. The argument is that guys like Gastineau and Hightower might have been legitimately good if they'd boxed their whole lives instead of after retiring.

Gumby wrote:I think Edwards will be okay. They won't match him up too tough.

The basketball/football player argument is fairly simple: the best physical athletes would likely succeed in a very physical sport like boxing. It's not saying that these guys could just switch and be the best boxers in the world whenever they felt like it. It's saying that if they grew up in a gym and had a little bit of toughness and dedication to the sport, they would likely do very well.

Gastineau's record looks pretty good on boxrec. Especially considering he began his pro career at 35 after retiring from football. I'm guessing Tim Anderson is the guy who slapped him around? He lost his last fight to Alonzo Highsmith, another guy who looks like he did alright becoming a boxer and fighting bums after retiring from football. The argument is that guys like Gastineau and Hightower might have been legitimately good if they'd boxed their whole lives instead of after retiring.

Finally...someone with some common sense!!! Nobody, Larry Merchant included, ever said that an NFL or NBA player could make an impact in boxing. If some of these extraordinary athletes had chosen boxing instead of football or basketball as their choice of sport, they would have been decent Hwt fighters.

flapanther2001 wrote:

Gumby wrote:I think Edwards will be okay. They won't match him up too tough.

The basketball/football player argument is fairly simple: the best physical athletes would likely succeed in a very physical sport like boxing. It's not saying that these guys could just switch and be the best boxers in the world whenever they felt like it. It's saying that if they grew up in a gym and had a little bit of toughness and dedication to the sport, they would likely do very well.

Gastineau's record looks pretty good on boxrec. Especially considering he began his pro career at 35 after retiring from football. I'm guessing Tim Anderson is the guy who slapped him around? He lost his last fight to Alonzo Highsmith, another guy who looks like he did alright becoming a boxer and fighting bums after retiring from football. The argument is that guys like Gastineau and Hightower might have been legitimately good if they'd boxed their whole lives instead of after retiring.

Finally...someone with some common sense!!! Nobody, Larry Merchant included, ever said that an NFL or NBA player could make an impact in boxing. If some of these extraordinary athletes had chosen boxing instead of football or basketball as their choice of sport, they would have been decent Hwt fighters.

We all know that's what Larry Merchant meant. The opposite point of view states that these are two extremely different disciplines. Which is to say that, accomplishing excellence in one is no clue that someone could actually do the other.

Truth be told, football players are often times the most popular students in any given high school. That would be the boxers first choice. Most of them either lacked the size or the ability to perform in football and basketball which is one of the reasons they took up boxing in the first place.

frank i agree totaly with you on this issue..on the haye -wlad thing i suspect you may be right...football and basketball have been around for years.almost as long as boxing.look at all the colledge programs in both sports .theres plenty.always was.then the pros.now after colledge how come these guys dont become fighters.90-99 percent dont make the pros..and im not talking just now.how about the 40s 50s 60s ..where was the cry then about these sports are taking away our fighters.not just heavyweights.do the math.since the 50s the end of a great golden age of boxing the population of the usa has more then doubled..dispite that we have less then half the fighters of that era fighting over twice as many divisions.the same also goes for world population and the amount of fighters.we can give perhaps several reasons why the decline of fighters and other sports is not one of them.i dont care what excuse boxing folks make up.
one fighter that was a former pro football player in the late 50s early 60s was charley powell.he had modest success as a HW to the point of being a viable oppenent..he also in his prime was koed in 48 seconds by mike dejohn hiting the deck 3 times in the first round.i saw that fight..
the old adage fighters are born there not made in general is very true.i dont think we can put the blame on social-economic issues either since the past few years its declined to the point of a minor depression.that is always one reson we claim why a certain era was loaded with great fighters..
the simple anser there is NO interest or very little interest in being a fighter..the amount of fighters today vs the population growth spells that out.thoses that believe its football basketball soccer etc etc taking away our fighters will still believe that excuse..again thoses sports have been around for ages.and in abundance..
on edwards and the kid from notre dame good luck.as soon as football starts there career is basicaly over.either that or the first time they meet a fighter with decent mediocre talent thell get koed..yep kayoed...frank your correct and thoses that wish to dabble in excuses on the topic of other sports are taking away our fighters fine..its BS ..boxing has gone the way of another once popular sport.horseracing.lack of interest..

Ok here is my only point we really need to make on this is ATHLETES. The better the numbers and group of athletes you have the more potential you have to improve what ever that sport is. The NFL and NBA has all the most athletic big men in the world. So that is the reason we say thats were are HW champ are.

sooner not realy since thoses sports ALWAYS had what you said.the bigger guys combined with atheltic abilty so to speak..where was the cry of that in the 60s where were folks saying butkus or nitchke or deacan jones should of been hw champ or the 50s saying gino marchetti jim brown or big daddy lipscomb took away our heavyweight champ or ditto bronco nagerski i a few years earlier.just seeing shaq at 7 foot 2 320 pounds thats big and with atheltic abilty train for a month and oscar washed up almost a foot and a half shorter and 150 pounds lighter slap him all over the ring..excuses excuses..again fooitball guys basketrball guys have been around forever..
of course the depleating interest in the sport the fact that the worlds population has doubled and we have less then half the fighters we had before means nothing huh.did all thoses folks become football players basketball players.the decline in numbers of fighters is huge in all divisions...maybe a soldier an accountant a lawyer a iron worker took away our fighters..like frank i agree.its a bullshit excuse.

dmar5143 wrote:frank i agree totaly with you on this issue..on the haye -wlad thing i suspect you may be right...football and basketball have been around for years.almost as long as boxing.look at all the colledge programs in both sports .theres plenty.always was.then the pros.now after colledge how come these guys dont become fighters.90-99 percent dont make the pros..and im not talking just now.how about the 40s 50s 60s ..where was the cry then about these sports are taking away our fighters.not just heavyweights.do the math.since the 50s the end of a great golden age of boxing the population of the usa has more then doubled..dispite that we have less then half the fighters of that era fighting over twice as many divisions.the same also goes for world population and the amount of fighters.we can give perhaps several reasons why the decline of fighters and other sports is not one of them.i dont care what excuse boxing folks make up.
one fighter that was a former pro football player in the late 50s early 60s was charley powell.he had modest success as a HW to the point of being a viable oppenent..he also in his prime was koed in 48 seconds by mike dejohn hiting the deck 3 times in the first round.i saw that fight..
the old adage fighters are born there not made in general is very true.i dont think we can put the blame on social-economic issues either since the past few years its declined to the point of a minor depression.that is always one reson we claim why a certain era was loaded with great fighters..
the simple anser there is NO interest or very little interest in being a fighter..the amount of fighters today vs the population growth spells that out.thoses that believe its football basketball soccer etc etc taking away our fighters will still believe that excuse..again thoses sports have been around for ages.and in abundance..
on edwards and the kid from notre dame good luck.as soon as football starts there career is basicaly over.either that or the first time they meet a fighter with decent mediocre talent thell get koed..yep kayoed...frank your correct and thoses that wish to dabble in excuses on the topic of other sports are taking away our fighters fine..its BS ..boxing has gone the way of another once popular sport.horseracing.lack of interest..

Great points here, dmar. I love the population growth argument.

I agree that there is a lack of interest in becoming a fighter.

Most athletes are in sports for money. In Boxing, we have a handful of successful fighters who make a fortune. The rest are contenders who are vying for a shot at the crown or a decent pay day. Look at the difference between the income of a professional boxer vs. an NFL football player. This is one of the reasons I believe that interest in becoming a fighter has declined.

There can be thousands of examples of why this is, however I think one will suffice. Who would you rather be today? The 10th best HW in the world, or the 10th best Defensive Lineman in the NFL. The first athlete is unknown and odds are he may retire that way. The latter is an All Pro and is paid a fortune.

Boxing is the most difficult and competitive sport in the world which is why I think most athletes who have the potential to fight these days, do not. As I noted long ago, if there are boxing champs in the NFL, they're probably bench warmers. The two sports are entirely different.

I agree with dmar. I think that most guys who have potential to be great champs just lack the interest in the sport.

you are big and athletic. What sports offer more? Football and basketball. Can get a scholarship and even if you don't make pros, hopefully you graduate and get a decent job. If you make the pros (even though careers are short on avg), you can make a hefty chunk of change.

Boxing-to make as much as the avg 3-4 year nba or nfl career, you have to be very, very good. And if you aren't, your career ends and you will have years of getting punched in the face to show for it.

In my opinion it's just that boxing is not a part of American culture.

If you are a bnechwarmer for a major league sport you still get paid a massive amount of money. Also, you aren't expected to make clutch plays or anything, you don't get that much playing time, you have to be good enough to beat 99% of the average joes out there and not be bad enough to be released, but suck against the elite.

Compared to a boxer, if you are a journeyman, you fight for mediocre purses, oftentimes take beatings, and are occasionally matched against the elite fighter who will bust your ass.

Not to mention, benchwarmer gets the best seats in the house

dmar5143 wrote:where was the cry of that in the 60s where were folks saying butkus or nitchke or deacan jones should of been hw champ or the 50s saying gino marchetti jim brown or big daddy lipscomb took away our heavyweight champ or ditto bronco nagerski i a few years earlier.

There was no outcry because US boxers were good. Plus there wasn't as much of an emphasis on measurable athleticism. The guys who we have representing us right now are unskilled non-athletes. Then you see guys in other sports who are super skilled super athletes, it's easy to go "why isn't anyone like that boxing?"

Physical athleticism has become more important in all sports. In boxing, we look at fighters and go "he's fast, he's strong, etc." Those are measurable skills that determine success in boxing. Yes there's a lot more to it, but those things matter. Berto and Ortiz are headlining a fight tonight, two guys that come more from the athlete mold than the boxing mold. I think if the best athletes in the US were boxing, they'd be good.

dmar5143 wrote:of course the depleating interest in the sport the fact that the worlds population has doubled and we have less then half the fighters we had before means nothing huh.did all thoses folks become football players basketball players.the decline in numbers of fighters is huge in all divisions...maybe a soldier an accountant a lawyer a iron worker took away our fighters..like frank i agree.its a bullshit excuse.

I agree that the fading popularity has hurt more than the lack of athletes. However, I think physical ability matters and you're more likely to find success in boxing with a guy whose athletic. Especially if it was a freakish athlete like some of the top guys in other sports. I think Pacquiao and some of the guys at the lighter weights (Gamboa, Donaire, Gary Rusell Jr., Berto, Amir Khan, etc.) could fall into that category. In MMA, I put Jon Jones on that level and he's become a champ. You can watch boxing and other combat sports and see that athleticism matters.

dmar, football, basketball, and baseball were heavily segregated all the way into the '70s.

The NFL in the 70s was made up of almost 70% whites. Same with basketball. Same with baseball.

Boxing was still the best option for poor black athletes to make money. Same way it was the best option for poor white immigrants to make money up until after the Depression.

Do to Civil Rights, and more and more desegregation, and blacks situation improving, they moved into other easier sports that don't involve getting punched in the face. The same happened to poor whites and white immigrants after the Depression when their economic situation improved.

Boxing thrives in oppressed areas. Why Latin, Asian, and East Euro countries are dominating.

No HW Champ is growing up in the Suburbs and going to college on a scholorship. A HW Champ that does not make. And don't mention the Klits. They are around by default

grant look all sports as you noted had intergration at that time and for several years.the point is not just the heavyweights are declining but all of boxing in participation.ALL of it.baseball football and hockey and basketball all have expanded at least double what it was in the fifties.boxing is 45 percent of what it was world wide dispite world population doubling.other sports expanded to keep pace with the expanding population and athletics that are capable of playing at a high level.boxing has not.its regressed not only in overall talent but in partcipation in ALL divisions..surely thoses other sports have not taken away fighters from 160 147 135 126 etc etc.
boxers gumby also have excellent athletic abilty.simply the interest in the sport not only from a fan point of view or publics point of view has declined greatly but actual partcipation in the sport has also followed that path.the interest has declined as well..that cannot be denide.where are our fighters in numbers.where are our fighters in numbers that are excellent making divisions deep well beyound a top ten.there not there because of declining interest in being a fighter.and in the sport.
sportwriters like to say the hws only are lost because of other sports...like frank said in so many words thats fancy BS.ALL divisions are suffering big time and thats fact and not fancy BS.the interest of being a fighter is at maybe its lowest point the past several years..
that more then any sport is the REAL reason there arent good HWS good middles or deep class of welters or LHS or lighweights..theres where the fault and blame lie..the numbers dont lie.
and its world wide.

there is also life outside the HW division..its always been boxings worst division mostly..i could care less if the usa ever has another champ in the HWS nor care less if the division sucks for 20 more years...if the middles the welters or 168 the lightweights etc all have excellent fighters im happy..the HWS is just a bonus..boxing is struggling to keep thoses better divisions afloat..deteration goes well beyound this HW division and shows roots in all divisions..no sport or sports are to blame for that deteriation.

I disagree that the talent below Light HW has decreased. The problem is, all the talent is spread out in nich weight classes.

Middleweight sucks because the talent is spread between Light Middle to Super Middle.

Imagine if it were only the traditional weight classes. Jr Middles either have to make Welter, or go fight at HW. Super Middles either have to make middle or go fight at Light HW.

of course you will disagree with anything i say lol...ive said many times before that if we eliminated 105 108 the 112 class would improve ..toss out 115 122 the bantams would be deep.the feathers the same not many 122 to get excited about going into the FW division but its debt should improve..135 not much improvement with no help from the 130 class.140 is a good division thats been around 75 years..that divison gets no improvement...
147 stays the same for most or all the 154 would be middles.combine the 154 n 160 and the division is the poorest ive ever seen...add 168 to the 175 and its a good division..beyound that its junk.the 168 guys are not droping down to middles..the bottom line is why are you not adressing the fact that the number of total fighters world wide in all divisions have decreased by at least 50 percent.non interest is the main reason and not other sports.that you hopefully could agree on.especialy when all sports have at least doubled in partcipation and teams going along with the doubling of the worlds population.that says something in itself..thats not hard to understand or realize.nor is any sport taking away in numbers fighters that should be participating in most of the divisions as i stated above in another post.

GrantZilla wrote:I disagree that the talent below Light HW has decreased. The problem is, all the talent is spread out in nich weight classes.

Middleweight sucks because the talent is spread between Light Middle to Super Middle.

Imagine if it were only the traditional weight classes. Jr Middles either have to make Welter, or go fight at HW. Super Middles either have to make middle or go fight at Light HW.

good point. If there was traditional weight classes most of the guys at 154 would be at 160. Bute would be at 175. Ward used to be at 160 and if forced to choose between 175 and 160, he might still be at 160. Abraham would definitely be at 160.

dmar, I disagree only with the sport not being as popular worldwide. Yes, it is not as popular in the US, but it's become more popular in other countries. Japan is booming. China is getting more and more into boxing, especialy after the last Olympics were their boxing team won gold for the first time. Australia has expiranced a Golden Age in boxing. I don't even have to bring up East Europ.

Boxing in a lot of these countries is 2nd only to soccer.

dmar, I get what you're saying. However, when I look at the US sports landscape, I see the best athletes elsewhere (probably from welterweight to heavyweight). I'm talking about guys with a high level of physical ability and skill in their respective sports. I'd like to see more of those guys in boxing.

I think those guys have more of a shot of being special. Cintron was an athlete who turned to boxing later. Same with Martinez. There are a lot of guys who I can find to prove that point.