Pascal-Hopkins rematch for WBC "Diamond" strap

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=26427&more=1

But yeah, Rossy, you go ahead and keep recognizing this shit.

what a disgusting self promoting patting yourself on the back BS statement from the wbc..a most famous desireable and NEW diamond belt..bo-hops the new champ in emertis or what the hell that means..who did he beat to get that jones jr..non profit is right since jose pockets maybe most of the income..
we are the folks who are only interested in the good of boxing it sounds like..if you are then please for the good of boxing go hang yourself with the diamond belt please..

So dmar, you still think HBO and networks should ignore The Ring? WBC is a "sanctioning body" after all.

ring is a magazine only with no authority and thats valid reason enough for hbo to recognize them as just that which i agree with..i will recognize tradition only that championships are won and lost in the ring and not created by anyone..ill recognize one legit solid universal ruling authority only and there is none..ring is a magazine and part of that is none...
i recognize baseballs footballs and basketballs commisions cause its one effective ruling authority..i dont recognize sports illustrated or baseball digest.there a magazine like ring..
grant you have gone on record here saying in posts that one ruling body wont work in boxing..you gave the reason cause boxing is global..soo is golf..but ring magazine is the anser..all will recognize that instead of a ruling body..recognize it why..maybe because it has no authority to enforce anything.nothing.
the commisons 5 or 6 of them are a joke..everyone understands that..to recognize any magazine as the final word without any authority is a bigger joke..hbo understands that also..you do not..
my position on commisions and 1 effective ruling body and ring is clear and constant..
its no different then wanting to recognize the ny times or the washington post not as a newspaper with opinions but as a government or governing body..

dmar, you clearly have no idea how sanctioning bodies work. You obviously think they have some authority and power, when they do not.

In US, States are the ones that sanction fights, not ABC belts. They are the ones that grant licences.

ABC belts have no more authority then The Ring does. Only reason why fighters go along with thier bullshit and their bullshit manditories because value their trinket. Or their promoter does.

Promoters are the ones that decide who fights who. No sanctioning body can force a fighter to fight someone they don't want to. They'll ditch the belt, like Bowe did. Happens all the time. Or do what Mayweather did soon get enough status and tell ABC belts to fuck off, they ain't gonna pay their fees.

Only time sanctioning body ruled over boxing was when it was mob ran, and promoters were physicaly threatened or blacklisted if they didn't go along.

Back when people knew who Champs were was because media recognized The Ring, and outside source of rankings. And the Ring Champs.

The Ring rankings no different then BCS rankings. AP Standings,ect.

Let me ask you, rather get your rankings in-house or from outside source?

look grant please dont tell me what i said or know..one ruling body like baseball that has the final say..one champion has only has been recognized for years and decades before ring magazine ever existed..please dont make it sound like ring started that and thats the way it should be because of ring..one real legit ruling body i said many times.what part of that dont you understand..one like baseball and other major sports has with full acountabilty enforceable and the final say..thats whats neccesary for boxing to have any credibilty and some integrity because as of now it has none.zero.untill then the farse will increse...ring magazines role and other leading boxing mags should push for that monthy in every issue and outline these commisions actions that are destroying boxing and its credibilty..if ring has any role outside of articles on fights thats what it should be..
when they announce fights its says sanctioned by the wbc and the ny state boxing commision..it dont say ring magazine..there just that a magazine..if you want to give all authority to a magazine instead of one only ruling body or commision like baseball has for example then thank god you have nooo say in anything as far as policy cause you would destroy boxing more then these commisions are..

You are totaly clueless, all I got to say.

You think WBO, which current title Pac-Man has, has any authority on him? Are you kidding me.

One ruling body huh, like NBA? I'm sorry, is NBA a global sport? Do you think people in Latin countries give a fuck about the NBA?

States are ones that sanction fights, not ABC belts. They have ZERO AUTHORITY! They are not ones grant licences in the US. All they do is collect sanctioning fees.

The first sanctioning body in the US didn't come around until 1921! Before that, it was the people's champion. Sullivan was Champion when there was no formal boxing title existed. It was the people and the media that crowned him Champion after he defeated Paddy Ryan.

How it's always been.

Say had NBA like originization in the US. What going stop fighter from fighting for some title from another country? Zero. In fact, what happens today.

No sanctioning body can force any fighter to fight someone they don't want to. Period. A fighter doesn't want to fight his manditory. He dumps the belt. What Spinks did so he could bigger money fight with a rematch with Ali.

So stop acting like some magic sanctioning body in US going to fix things. All it will be is another sanctioning body. And boxing sure as fuck doesn't need anymore.

And I guess got to drill this into your head. THERE WAS NO RANKINGS IN BOXING BEFORE THE RING! ZERO!

a ruling body a world wide commison that will have authority.not a magazine..whos says it cant work..you .a person who if you had tunnel vison it would be an improvement over noo vision..your arguements are baseless.jack dempsey was considered world champion not a peoples champ.stop making up fiction..again since you cannot tell the differnce from a ruling body with full authority over a sanctioning commision or a magazine then theres no sence disgussing problems that exist with someone who1.tap dances and doesnt stay to the point of disgussion and 2.claims that if all agree world wide to accept that it wont work..hides behind soo called usa only but refuses to accept golf as a global sport with accepted rules..3. its negative to the point of dismissing europe as a major player in boxing.4.who thinks that the usa only is the place to fight and that european fans should watch there fighters fight here at 4 or 5 am because its too inconvient for the million viewers of boxing here to watch it at 5 pm on a saturday.5.who claims that fighters should develope a home fan base and fight in front of them but wants to take the biggest fan base perhaps in the world between wlad and adamek who want to fight for that fan base in europe and take that away from then to fight in new jersey and then furture adds insult to there fans by saying they should watch it at 4 am in the morning..its easy for them right but impossible for fans in the usa to watch it at 5 pm in the afternoon..and you call yourself a boxing fan..noo your a selfish fan that wants all fights of any signifcance to be fought here in the usa yet you claim boxing is a global sport..im done disgussing things with a person that lacks vision and adds insults to the largest group of boxing fans in numbers in the world which now happens to be europe...and wants a magazine to be the ultimate word in boxing instead of a potential global one unifing rulling body with full authority..your policies and thoughts are as destructive as the 6 commisions we have now..end of disgussion and take that narrow mind and attempt to think of something construtive instead of destructive...

dmar, why don't you learn some fucking boxing history.

There was no ruling sanctioning body when Dempsey become champ. New York State Athletic Commission formed in 1920. Then was California State Athletic Commission. National Boxing Association which later become World Boxing Association didn't form until 1921.

Dempsey was regarded as Champ because he beat Willard, who beat Jack Johnson, ect. They were the people's Champion. And media regarded them as such.

Other countries had their own Champions. Had British Heavyweight Champion. Joe Beckett was British HW Champ when Dempsey was Champ. So there goes your universal claims.

So why were Dempsey, Louis, ect regarded as the real Champ? Because they were ones that were recongized as the Champions. By the media and by the people.

I never fucking said The Ring should rule over boxing. I said media and networks need to get on the same page and represent to the people who the real champs are and who real top fighters in the divisions are. The Ring is the best way to do it.

But go on wishing for that magic sanctioning body that will take over the world of boxing and fix all it's problems. I happen to not live in fantasy land.

Jack Johnson's refusal to honor an agreement made by his manager to defend against the British champion led the National Sporting Club in London, the most powerful body in boxing outside the USA, to withdraw recognition of Johnson as champion. They matched Canadian Sam Langford and the British champion William "Iron" Hague for their version of the title. Langford beat Hague on a fourth round knockout in London on May 24, 1909. Langford returned home to America and never pressed his claim to the title...note this article said britan recognized johnson as the worlds heavyweight champ..not hague.he was recognized as the british heavyweight champ not the worlds champ..just like chuvalo was heavyweight champ of canada only ditto brian london for the british.johnnson was at one time the european HW champion.not world champion..YOU learn your boxing history..

Learn your history pal. Tommy Burns was HW Champ at the time, and no sanctioning body made him one. It was because he beat Marvin Hart who was crowned Champ in a tournament after Jeffries retired. To add legitimacy to the public, Jeffries refereed the fight.

Even so, public still considered Jeffries the champ. That was silenced when Johnson beat Jeffries.

But you go right ahead keep pretending sanctioning bodies have any authority. They have zero. Did Arum go apply to WBC to get MargoCheato re-licenced? No. It was up to the States, who are the ones that sanction fights.

BTW, when Johnson fled to Europe to avoid jail, he was still regarded as the HW Champ because nobody had beat him. He was not the Champ be any sanctioning body.

keep the disagreement civil.

grant please learn how to read..you said there were several HW champs of the world.the canadians had one the brits etc etc..this article proved you wrong.im not talking about santioning bodies you are..

They did. There was British HW Champ when Dempsey, Louis, ect were Champs.

But they were not regarded as The Champ.

Today, the media will regard anyone with a trinket as a champion. And that's whole point I'm getting at.

Media needs get on same page about who real Champs are and who real top fighters are.

When got British Media and even US media calling David Haye a HW Champ because got a trinket that should belong to Wlad, is why casual fans are turned off by boxing. Because they have no fucking idea who is and who isn't Champ.

GrantZilla wrote:You are totaly clueless, all I got to say.

You think WBO, which current title Pac-Man has, has any authority on him? Are you kidding me.

I think that belts and sanctioning bodies have had an impact on Pac's matchmaking. They aren't the deciding factor, but they certainly have influenced his career.

GrantZilla wrote:No sanctioning body can force any fighter to fight someone they don't want to. Period. A fighter doesn't want to fight his manditory. He dumps the belt. What Spinks did so he could bigger money fight with a rematch with Ali.

The sanctioning bodies influence the sport a lot more than you're giving them credit. The majority of fighters and their promoters value belts. Belt holders take mandatories all the time instead of taking the consensus best fight. Whether it's to keep a belt, to avoid a difficult fight, make more $, etc., it happens. A lot of times sanctioning bodies will even strip fighters of their belt for taking on challenges or trying to become a champions, which hurts their willingness to try. Other title holders might not even been ranked by another organization, it's ridiculous. For ranked non-belt holders, there's a good chance they'll take a title-eliminator fight as opposed to an equal or bigger fight with someone who can't get them closer to a belt.

One overseeing sanctioning body could solidify a unified ranking system. Especially when the belt holders are all ranked together near the top. There wouldl be a lot more pressure for them to fight each other. Let's look at Berto. He could try and become a champion at WW, but what's the incentive? He's just as likely to get a big fight by taking on somewhat known, non-threatening opponents. The system is so convoluted that title holders aren't recognized or respected. If going to Europe meant he could get to Pac or Floyd I'm sure he'd be much more willing, or at least look much worse for not trying to do so. He can use the Boise State, "I beat everyone in front of me" case because he's not forced to fight credible opponents.

Right now boxing is like the college football system (which I think works great for college). I look at these sanctioning bodies like conferences. Some are real weak, but have a great fighter who never gets exposure or gets tested. Some have guys taking on tough challengers just to never get a shot at the title. The bowls (title fights) can showcase the best in the sport, but not always against the toughest competition and feature a lot of mismatch fights (Stanford-V Tech, LSU-Texas A&M, etc.). You can generally get a sense of who the absolute best are, but after that it's hard to say. One governing body or a unified ranking system would force a playoffs (best fighting the best), where the best would be forced to prove it.

Short answer: the sanctioning bodies don't have official power over sanctioning fights, but they have a lot of power in dictating which fights will be sanctioned. The way they've influenced which fights get made is handicapping the sport.

good points and posts and reasoning gumby..i can go along with that..makes sence.

Gumby, that's the point I'm getting at. Sanctioning bodies only have power because certain promoters are in bed with certain sanctioning bodies. Shaw in bed with IBF for example. So of course, he has his fighters go for that trinket.

What I'm saying is, if media ignored these belts, and just got on same page on who real Champs were and who real top fighters were, can bet fighters would stop going after them.

Why would want to pay sanctioning fee and fight BS manditories if networks and media refuse to accept them as Champ or telivise their bullshit manditory fights?

GrantZilla wrote:Gumby, that's the point I'm getting at. Sanctioning bodies only have power because certain promoters are in bed with certain sanctioning bodies. Shaw in bed with IBF for example. So of course, he has his fighters go for that trinket.

What I'm saying is, if media ignored these belts, and just got on same page on who real Champs were and who real top fighters were, can bet fighters would stop going after them.

Why would want to pay sanctioning fee and fight BS manditories if networks and media refuse to accept them as Champ or telivise their bullshit manditory fights?

Aren't the networks in bed with the same promoters though? Showtime seems to get it which is why they've become so respected recently. HBO, however, controls most of the big fights/fighters and just takes whatever they're given.

GrantZilla wrote:Gumby, that's the point I'm getting at. Sanctioning bodies only have power because certain promoters are in bed with certain sanctioning bodies. Shaw in bed with IBF for example. So of course, he has his fighters go for that trinket.

What I'm saying is, if media ignored these belts, and just got on same page on who real Champs were and who real top fighters were, can bet fighters would stop going after them.

Why would want to pay sanctioning fee and fight BS manditories if networks and media refuse to accept them as Champ or telivise their bullshit manditory fights?

Like I was saying in the other thread - the question becomes who actually ranks fighters? What's to prevent a "Champ" from ducking someone if there isn't any one organization that can rank a guy #1 if he deserves to be? Does this exist now - no. Did it ever - no, not really. But the thing is it NEEDS to exist to save a what is a dying sport at this point.

Of course sanctioning bodies as they exist today are B.S. - everyone agrees on that. The point is how to replace them with something that works? Media can't just be the final say, even if it is respected media like Ring magazine. Why not? Because magazines and newspapers and TV stations are there to do one thing - sell soap. Without advertisment money they don't exist. Therefore if they are wholly in charge of rankings than rankings become (to some extent) popularity contests. Guys with boring styles or from places outside the admen's target area (i.e. the US or at least Western Europe) are at a real disadvantage in such a system.

Like I said before, the solution to my mind would have to look something like this (and forgive me, this is just a rough outline, lots of tweaking needed):
1) A government sanctioned, global organization that works with local authorities like State Commissions to sanction and approve fights and also provides objective rankings based on an agreed upon system taking into account record, competition, performance and all other relevant factors. This could draw on input from experts in the media, but perhaps that's only a percentage of the overall ranking. Gumby (I think) was talking in the other thread about the college football system pre-BCS and I think he had some good points on taking from that model for this.

2) And not unrelated, would be a viable, worldwide boxers union which allows fighters to have a pension and certain protections from managers, promoters, etc. as well as the collective power to only recongize this yet-to-be-created global authority and fight in bouts sanctioned by it.

tobe thats somewhat along the lines im thinking of..i agree..its a must or further confushion and destruction will occur.

Tobe, do you realize that what your talking about already been done. What WBC was created for. It was formed to create an international boxing organization that would achieve the unity of all commissions of the world to control the expansion of boxing.

It was approved and sanctioned by world governments, but look how fast become corrupted and now a total joke.

All your talking about is creating yet another sanctioning body.

All I'm saying is, these ABC belts won't go away. Got government people paying them off in certain countries for christ sake.

But if media and networks got on same page as far as who real champions were and who top fighters were. It'd make them irrelevant. Maybe some of them would go bankrupt, and others would get their shit together.

Do we know when the rematch will be?

For me the #1 fighter at 175 could easily be determined

Cloud vs Dawson
Pascal vs Hopkins II

Winners meet