Who did Calzaghe have to beat to gain respect?

I like Calzaghe and have him in the same class as Bhop and RJJ. They are three guys with overlapping careers and I think he did enough to be included in that trio. He's the low man on that totem for me but he's there. My argument for that is:

1. He beat both of them head to head - Yes Bhop and RJJ were not in their prime, but was Joe C? He won those fights fair and square. Longevity is a factor in determining accomplishments, and Joe showed the has skill set would have been a problem for both those guys at any point in their careers.
   
2. He was the man in his division - Who else did he have to beat at 168? There are the obvious fights he didn't make but those go both ways.
   
3. He was damn good - He was tough physically and mentally, relentless, skilled, and tactical. He rose to every challenge.

Lastly he was exciting. People can hate his style, but I always enjoyed knowing he was going to fight and he provided plenty of memorable moments.

I think we can say that Hopkins was and is still in his prime. He just happens to have a 15 year prime.

Let's first determine what is "respect."

I think the guy probably belongs in the HOF. That makes him in my mind one of the top 250 fighters of all-time. That's a fair bit of respect in my view.

The limitations on Calzaghe are

1. He never even faced the other European undefeated fighter in his division. I mean come on man!
2. He never beat a HOF fighter in their prime...unless you want to argue BHOP is such a freak he was in his prime in his forties
3. He fought 46 times, not an excessive amount.

Had he fought Stevie Collins, Frankie Liles, Jones earlier and of course Ottke it would have meant a lot.

I think Calzaghe was tough as nails but he waited WAAAAYYYYYYYY too long to have signature wins. I think we can all agree that Lacy was overrated going into that fight but those are the type of wins/fights Calzaghe needed years before. His best 2 wins are BHop and Kessler and they came at 35+. Roy is the only guy that I feel confident picking against Calzaghe at SMW prime against prime. Hopkins, Toney, Benn, or even Eubank (in prime) are all 50-50 at best to me. I honestly wish I could have seen more of Joe to get a better evaluation of him.

I would not say Calslappy beat Hopkins past his prime because thats completely false. Hopkins was the same guy we knew 10 years ago today. Slappys style beats Hops every time. Roy Jones in his prime completely demolishes Slappy though and also beat Hops in his prime. Even though I feel Slappy was better than Hops, Hops accomplishments are miles ahead of Joe.

Slappys style was very affective, even if he didnt have much pop. His activity was his Defense.

Facing Glen Johnson and Kelly Pavlik would have helped.

Dawson emerged just as Joe was ready to retire.

I can't hold not facing Jones in his prime against him. It isn't as if Roy was really into facing challenges in his prime!!!

As for BHOP. You'd have to argue his prime was at 160. He wasn't moving up in weight and Calzaghe can't make 160. He wasn't ever going to be able to fight BHOP until BHOP was past his prime and moved up (he was still darn good when Calzaghe edged him out).

joe i feel is a legit future hall of famer.he beat 10 ranked fighters that ring had ranked and several other decent fighters that other orginazations ranked..a champ a lineal one in two different divisions and 10 years a title holder at 168..10 years.46-0 also..he did enough to earn all our respects..yes he could of had 3 or 4 fights along the way against certain guys to enhense that respect perhaps..lets say we dont hold in in the high regard-respect of a robinson pep greb charles moore etc etc but non the less i feel he did enough to earn our respect..
he did many things well and a few i didnt care for but overall kudos to joe..he earned it.

the thing was that bhop and jones didnt need calzaghe for their careers to be a success. they were already popular and if either one would have fought and beaten him then calzaghe would have just been another victim of theirs and wouldnt have been considered that great. calzaghe needed them to be held in a higher regard. there were a few people that he should have fought that have already been mentioned (ottke, johnson, pavlik, maybe dawson), but he just faced some pretty good competition instead.

he would probably always beat hopkins but it was above hopkins best weight and styles just dont match up well for hopkins. i think that hopkins is a better fighter though. jones would have destroyed calzaghe because he leaves himself way too open and jones is way too fast and would have landed over and over. he would have been able to slow down calzaghe.

Out Slappy Joe's 10 year, 20 title defenses, he only beat TWO top ten ranked fighters! Lacy and Kessler

TWO!

In entire career, he's beaten 5 top ten ranked fighters. Eubanks, Lacy, Kessler, Jones Jr(who managed to get back in rankings after his win over blown up Tito) and Hops.

add michell bilka manfredo woodhall and reid who where ranked by ring magazine in the top ten.plus 4 or 5 others that were ranked in the top ten by other originazations and on the fringe of rings top ten or 15...

Bumfredo was not ranked when Slappy fought him in 2007. Neither was Reid. He had lost to Markus Beyer and dropped off. No shocker he retired after losing to Slappy.

Bika wasn't either in the top ten when Slappy Joe fought him.

Gumby wrote:I like Calzaghe and have him in the same class as Bhop and RJJ. They are three guys with overlapping careers and I think he did enough to be included in that trio. He's the low man on that totem for me but he's there. My argument for that is:

1. He beat both of them head to head - Yes Bhop and RJJ were not in their prime, but was Joe C? He won those fights fair and square. Longevity is a factor in determining accomplishments, and Joe showed the has skill set would have been a problem for both those guys at any point in their careers.
   
2. He was the man in his division - Who else did he have to beat at 168? There are the obvious fights he didn't make but those go both ways.
   
3. He was damn good - He was tough physically and mentally, relentless, skilled, and tactical. He rose to every challenge.

Lastly he was exciting. People can hate his style, but I always enjoyed knowing he was going to fight and he provided plenty of memorable moments.

I agree 100 percent. Joe wanted to make all the money he could before he took a chance. Also, to my knowledge,nobody was exactly calling him out for a superfight. His exposure of Jeff Lacy was masterful. Funny, but I don't recall many fighters calling out Lacy during that time.

Also, I don't recall Joe challenging Roy Jones or Bernard Hopkins during their primes, however I don't recall either fighter seeking him out either.

Kessler, #1 vs #2 at SMW going at it in an electric fight