Evander Holyfield - did he use PEDs?

Evander was one of my favorite fighters of all time, but I really have to wonder how he transitioned from being the 1984 Light Heavyweight Olympic Bronze Medalist, to winning the cruiserweight title from Dwight Muhammad Qawi in his 12th fight as a Professional. (July-1986). What's even more astonishing, is Holyfield moving up to Heavyweight in 1988, and taking the undisputed Heavyweight Crown from Buster Douglas 2 years later in October of 1990.

I'm not trying to diss' Evander, or belittle his accomplishments, and there's no proof that he's ever used PEDs, just asking everyone's opinion: Did Evander "Juice" or did he just have good boxing genes?

My reflexive position on all these guys is guilt until innocence is proven. Especially with uber-competitive guys like Evander. One of the things I love about guys like him, Clemens, Jordan, Armstrong etc is that they are killers. They'd do anyhting to win. I think that makes them vulnerable to the temptation of stuff like this.

Can I prove it? Nope. Does my guess make me think less of him? Nope. It is only my guess. But if I had to lay down a bet?

marbleheadmaui wrote:My reflexive position on all these guys is guilt until innocence is proven. Especially with uber-competitive guys like Evander. One of the things I love about guys like him, Clemens, Jordan, Armstrong etc is that they are killers. They'd do anyhting to win. I think that makes them vulnerable to the temptation of stuff like this.

Can I prove it? Nope. Does my guess make me think less of him? Nope. It is only my guess. But if I had to lay down a bet?

+1 I cant add anything to what you said marble.

Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Boxing lawyer is here. Thank you sir for joining.

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Well as you know a lot more about Evander's attitudes than I ever will I am happy to defer to your opinion. I never saw anything about Evander putting on weight as a 22 year old that particularly troubled me. My attitude is more of a commentary on the times than anything else.

One presumably unrelated question. Does anyone know what really happened to his heart during the Moorer fight?

Soonermark890 wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Boxing lawyer is here. Thank you sir for joining.

WHO TF is THAT in your gif?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Boxing lawyer is here. Thank you sir for joining.

WHO TF is THAT in your gif?

I have no idea but its funny as hell to me. LOL

Soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Boxing lawyer is here. Thank you sir for joining.

WHO TF is THAT in your gif?

I have no idea but its funny as hell to me. LOL

The referee oughtta be SHOT! THAT'S why a ref wraps up a fighter and escorts him away. I mean a dazed guy does what he's trained to do. He gets up, gets in a fighting position and cocks a fist. What's the other guy to do?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Boxing lawyer is here. Thank you sir for joining.

WHO TF is THAT in your gif?

I have no idea but its funny as hell to me. LOL

The referee oughtta be SHOT! THAT'S why a ref wraps up a fighter and escorts him away. I mean a dazed guy does what he's trained to do. He gets up, gets in a fighting position and cocks a fist. What's the other guy to do?

I know but man the pause before he KO's him makes me laugh.

evanders strenth coach for years was fellow atlanta resident and admitted steroid user 7 times mr olympia lee haney..i have also read several times from reputable sources in the long past that hollified failed a few unoffical roids tests..the loss to moorer was blamed by evander as a heart problem..the cause likely was steroid use..sorry to burst everyones bubble.

These days, it doesn't seem to be a big deal to know a professional athlete or someone affiliated with professional sports in some way. With Health Gyms still in vogue, "Joe Sixpack" having conversations with dumb but rich jocks is not a big deal. If the average Joe is honest, he'll tell you a couple of things. (a) He never attended a health gym without being offered steroids. (b) Every professional athlete he knows is on PEDs. (c) An honest athlete or coach will tell you that it's impossible to compete on a professional level without PEDs. No, it's not just in bodybuilding. That's a true but sad reality. Another sad reality? If athletes stopped using, fans of the NBA and the NFL (not so much in boxing) would be shocked by the mediocre performances and attendance would go way down.

Ya think I'm crazy? Watch an older NBA all star game (One with "Wilt the Silt" and "Spencer Haywood") and compare them to today's NBA stars. Then, be honest with yourself. At this point in time, our sport can proudly hold it's head higher than any other PED infiltrated sport. Why? Ali, Frazier, Louis, Robinson and countless other fighters who probably never used PEDs would kick the shit out of the current competition. Believe me, we're the only contact sport that can state that.

frank good points..several years ago i worked out for a long while in a serious gym 4 times a week where several competitive bodybuilders did..steroid use was huge and was disgussed in the open many times..i was never offered any because they knew i was a strong anti steroid guy..oddly several of them use to ask advise for training certain muscle groups because i was from the john grimek school of thought that 1001 exersises were effective over the same old same old thing over the years.
i did love the fact when doing squats then quater squats the poundage would go up to 735 and thoses guys could not get it off the squat rack..even back then some 25 years ago high school kids were using them in a alarming fashion...boxing has stood the test of time..

marbleheadmaui wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Well as you know a lot more about Evander's attitudes than I ever will I am happy to defer to your opinion. I never saw anything about Evander putting on weight as a 22 year old that particularly troubled me. My attitude is more of a commentary on the times than anything else.

One presumably unrelated question. Does anyone know what really happened to his heart during the Moorer fight?

It was a messed up deal. Holyfield actually had a couple things going on in that fight and the combined symptoms led the attending physicians to a presumptive diagnosis of Cardio Myopathy. Holyfield had all the signs. Pain in his left shoulder and chest, dizziness, blurred vision, and most frightening, x-rays showed an enlarged heart.
When it was all sorted out, what had actually happened was very similar to what happened to Evander in a couple of his other bouts, most notably his fights with Dokes and Qawi. Through the course of the fight, he had become SEVERELY dehydrated. He was given IV fluids to rehydrate him far to fast and the result was a build up of fluid in his body that lead to water/fluid collecting in several places in his body, the most notable as you might have guessed, around the sac lining of the heart. On X-rays is showed up as an enlarged heart. These were the only x-rays taken, so build up of fluid elswhere was not immediately detected. The other problem was a torn muscle in his left shoulder and bicep. They were diagnosed later on when the pain did not subside as expected. When it was all put together, along with his victimization by Benny Hinn (story for another day),it made for great TV and when it was later resolved and diagnosed properly by the Mayo clinic, the truth was widely ignored. This the myth of the "heart attack" lives on.

boxing lawyer nice detailed report..

boxinglawyer wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote: Evander did not use PEDS to make it to heavy. He worked damn hard. He would actually go DOWN in weight between fights because he lost wieght when he stopped lifting.
Now, I have a personal theory about his later career that is UNPROVEN and SPECULATION only on my part. If, and its a big if imo, Evander ever used, it was late in his career when injuries just wouldnt heal. He didnt do it to gain unfair advantage, Evander would never cheat. He would have done it to "get back" to where he thought he should be. Evander can, and has, rationalized some pretty off the wall stuff before.

Well as you know a lot more about Evander's attitudes than I ever will I am happy to defer to your opinion. I never saw anything about Evander putting on weight as a 22 year old that particularly troubled me. My attitude is more of a commentary on the times than anything else.

One presumably unrelated question. Does anyone know what really happened to his heart during the Moorer fight?

It was a messed up deal. Holyfield actually had a couple things going on in that fight and the combined symptoms led the attending physicians to a presumptive diagnosis of Cardio Myopathy. Holyfield had all the signs. Pain in his left shoulder and chest, dizziness, blurred vision, and most frightening, x-rays showed an enlarged heart.
When it was all sorted out, what had actually happened was very similar to what happened to Evander in a couple of his other bouts, most notably his fights with Dokes and Qawi. Through the course of the fight, he had become SEVERELY dehydrated. He was given IV fluids to rehydrate him far to fast and the result was a build up of fluid in his body that lead to water/fluid collecting in several places in his body, the most notable as you might have guessed, around the sac lining of the heart. On X-rays is showed up as an enlarged heart. These were the only x-rays taken, so build up of fluid elswhere was not immediately detected. The other problem was a torn muscle in his left shoulder and bicep. They were diagnosed later on when the pain did not subside as expected. When it was all put together, along with his victimization by Benny Hinn (story for another day),it made for great TV and when it was later resolved and diagnosed properly by the Mayo clinic, the truth was widely ignored. This the myth of the "heart attack" lives on.

Many thanks!