Pavlik returns March 31 ...Then Chavez?

I just have to say you guys have a lot more faith than I do in Pavlik coming back decent.

UBeeg9cats wrote:I just have to say you guys have a lot more faith than I do in Pavlik coming back decent.

the division aint that great and he was in the fight vs Martinez until Sergio went off on him in round 9

He'll be a player no doubt

gomez1012 wrote:

UBeeg9cats wrote:I just have to say you guys have a lot more faith than I do in Pavlik coming back decent.

the division aint that great and he was in the fight vs Martinez until Sergio went off on him in round 9

He'll be a player no doubt

Very true. I think he would've won the Sergio fight if he didn't get cut up. Good luck to him because he can make some interesting fights.

sounds like pavlik did what was expected of him and maybe then some.next hopefully is someone ranked 15-20 in either the 168 pound division or a middle who is willing to go to 164..

According to all reports he looked good. He was however fighting at light heavyweight. How do you guys think he does in that division? I think that Campillo or a Yuaef Mack type guy should be his next fight if he plans on hanging around that weight.

hardcorebee24 wrote:According to all reports he looked good. He was however fighting at light heavyweight. How do you guys think he does in that division? I think that Campillo or a Yuaef Mack type guy should be his next fight if he plans on hanging around that weight.

I think he will fight at super or less next fight but if he did stay at 175, he needs a washed up slugger with a name. Campillo destroys him.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:According to all reports he looked good. He was however fighting at light heavyweight. How do you guys think he does in that division? I think that Campillo or a Yuaef Mack type guy should be his next fight if he plans on hanging around that weight.

I think he will fight at super or less next fight but if he did stay at 175, he needs a washed up slugger with a name. Campillo destroys him.

Why do you say that? What big victories does Campillo have on record. He's not a big puncher and he gets hit alot. I think it would be a good fight.

Let's not get carried away here. As Collins' properly pointed out, Jaco was a bum who only had ONE fight since 2006.

Pavlik beating Jaco shows us nothing as far where Pavlik is at. Going off Pavlik's previous fights above Middle, he's shown to be even slower than he was at middle, which was pretty slow to begin with.

I just don't see Pavlik having success at Super Middle let alone at Light HW. His size and power is what him the Middleweight Championship. He will have neither benifit in the higher divisions, and will be slow as hell.

GrantZilla wrote:Let's not get carried away here. As Collins' properly pointed out, Jaco was a bum who only had ONE fight since 2006.

Pavlik beating Jaco shows us nothing as far where Pavlik is at. Going off Pavlik's previous fights above Middle, he's shown to be even slower than he was at middle, which was pretty slow to begin with.

I just don't see Pavlik having success at Super Middle let alone at Light HW. His size and power is what him the Middleweight Championship. He will have neither benifit in the higher divisions, and will be slow as hell.

I see him doing better at Lt. Heavy as long as the boys @ super middle stay put.

hardcorebee24 wrote:I see him doing better at Lt. Heavy as long as the boys @ super middle stay put.

He moves around like he's dragging a dead body. With extra weight he's shown to be even worst. He won't have any kind of real size advantage and his power will likely be a lot less at Light HW.

Light HW may be weak, but I'd pick Cloud and Pascal beating him, and Campillo schooling him.

GrantZilla wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:I see him doing better at Lt. Heavy as long as the boys @ super middle stay put.

He moves around like he's dragging a dead body. With extra weight he's shown to be even worst. He won't have any kind of real size advantage and his power will likely be a lot less at Light HW.

Light HW may be weak, but I'd pick Cloud and Pascal beating him, and Campillo schooling him.

I'd take action on that...

hardcorebee24 wrote:I'd take action on that...

What's the point? He isn't going to fight any of those guys. Arum will see to it.

GrantZilla wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:I'd take action on that...

What's the point? He isn't going to fight any of those guys. Arum will see to it.

Cynicism isn't part of the bet. Arum will get this guy either a rematch with Martinez or a super middle. This is contingent on his next three fights and his health. If Pavlik can get ready and in shape he can make Arum money, win or lose. Campillo doesn't really impress me that much, neither does Cloud. Cloud is there, he is in front of you and we haven't seen if he can take a shot yet or not and he hasn't KO'd anyone of note. There are no real bangers at Lt. Heavy. Pascal probably has the most power in the top tier. We are going to see Cloud's mettle. Campillo we know what he has. Let's see what Garcia can do with Pavlik. We all criticized Loew and said Pavlik would be better off without him. I see a wide open Lt Heavyweight division with a flawed or old top tier. To me it's ripe for the picking if the boys at 168 stay put, because I think Ward, Bute, and Froch would all do well in that division.

I think you are giving Pavlik too much credit. In retrospect Pavlik's best wins are not that impressive. Miranda(who every decent fighter beats) and Taylor. Taylor is not a bad fighter, but Pavlik was tailor made for him. And Taylor went on to get KO'd by the likes of Abe, who's shown to be a limited fighter, and Froch.

Pavlik is as limited as Cloud. Difference is, Cloud is a legit Light HW, Pavlik is not. Garcia might improve Pavlik in some areas, but I think it's too late. You can't teach speed.

Let's add on not like Pavlik got an iron chin. He has a lot of heart, but he was damn near KO'd by Taylor, who isn't a huge puncher, at middleweight. How would his chin handle getting hit by legit Light HWs?

Sorry, I'm going to need to see more than him beating up on a handpicked bum like Jaco to say he can hang at Light HW.

GrantZilla wrote:I think you are giving Pavlik too much credit. In retrospect Pavlik's best wins are not that impressive. Miranda(who every decent fighter beats) and Taylor. Taylor is not a bad fighter, but Pavlik was tailor made for him. And Taylor went on to get KO'd by the likes of Abe, who's shown to be a limited fighter, and Froch.

Pavlik is as limited as Cloud. Difference is, Cloud is a legit Light HW, Pavlik is not. Garcia might improve Pavlik in some areas, but I think it's too late. You can't teach speed.

Let's add on not like Pavlik got an iron chin. He has a lot of heart, but he was damn near KO'd by Taylor, who isn't a huge puncher, at middleweight. How would his chin handle getting hit by legit Light HWs?

Sorry, I'm going to need to see more than him beating up on a handpicked bum like Jaco to say he can hang at Light HW.

I said already it's a three fight plan and my point is that he'd do better at Lt heavy than super middle is all. I see him having an easier time against slower less skilled and less seasoned guys at Lt heavy.

the fight was at 170. It wasn't designed to be so he can fight at 175 going forward.


Just by looking at boxrec, Froch had some fights at 170 or 171 on the way up in his career. Was he intending to fight at 175?No.

It was just prior to the time that any stupid belts were on the line? Commonwealth, major, etc....

Guys fight a pound or 2 above the weight limit alot of the time when there is no belt on the line.

FNF have alot of fights where the guys both weigh in under 142. Why? No belts on the line. Both sides agree to a couple of pounds above 140.

its realy hard to judge pavlik based on this fight.the guy quit after the second knockdown.the ref asked are you ok and he said yes im done.it looks like garcia has made some adjustments in kelly.his reflexes looked decent.his footwork and moveabilty improved and a better defensive reaction to on coming punches.the guy surely was far from a test of any kind for kelly non the less his handspeed showed some inprovement for that one punch.he looked very fit also.lets see what the next 2 fights bring as far as a upgraded opposition.i liked the improvements i saw.lets not count pavlik out in any class from 160 168 and especialy at 175.its too early yet to make some of the judgements stated in this thread.garcia has made improvements over jack his former trainer.if he stays focused and motivated kelly can be competetive for sure and against anyone.im not counting him out just yet especialy since i feel garcia has in mind more improvements in kelly without changing kellys style.i wish him luck in everything.

I wish we could see Pavlik vs. Andrade, I've been dreaming of that fight for years.

Actually considering where both guys careers are at the moment Pavlik vs. Abraham makes sense, pity it'll never happen.

He's not going to 175. HIs fights will be at 168 when there is a legit opponent.

The opponent was unbelievably weak. That being said, his hands and feet looked quicker than his last fight. In that fight, his feet looked absolutely stuck in quicksand from the first minute.

Kessler moving up to 175 for a bullshit trinket. How long till Froch, Bute, and Ward move up?

If they do, Pavlik could be in a situation akin to what happened at 160; that being a weak division.

168 was pretty strong with Ward, Bute, Froch, Kessler, but when they start moving up (which very well may happen in the next year), the division becomes much weaker and is mediocre like 160 was when Pavlik was there.

captainanddew wrote:He's not going to 175. HIs fights will be at 168 when there is a legit opponent.

The opponent was unbelievably weak. That being said, his hands and feet looked quicker than his last fight. In that fight, his feet looked absolutely stuck in quicksand from the first minute.

Kessler moving up to 175 for a bullshit trinket. How long till Froch, Bute, and Ward move up?

If they do, Pavlik could be in a situation akin to what happened at 160; that being a weak division.

168 was pretty strong with Ward, Bute, Froch, Kessler, but when they start moving up (which very well may happen in the next year), the division becomes much weaker and is mediocre like 160 was when Pavlik was there.

It'll still have young guys like Groves, DeGale and Dirrell.

Hagler's Bald Head wrote:

captainanddew wrote:He's not going to 175. HIs fights will be at 168 when there is a legit opponent.

The opponent was unbelievably weak. That being said, his hands and feet looked quicker than his last fight. In that fight, his feet looked absolutely stuck in quicksand from the first minute.

Kessler moving up to 175 for a bullshit trinket. How long till Froch, Bute, and Ward move up?

If they do, Pavlik could be in a situation akin to what happened at 160; that being a weak division.

168 was pretty strong with Ward, Bute, Froch, Kessler, but when they start moving up (which very well may happen in the next year), the division becomes much weaker and is mediocre like 160 was when Pavlik was there.

It'll still have young guys like Groves, DeGale and Dirrell.

I've watched Groves and Degale and Pavlik beats both of them. Neither strikes me as having the tools to be a great fighter.

Dirrell boxes Pavlik silly.