my thoughts...

first of all, manny definitely impressed me tonight. i could tell that he was hurt sometimes but he stayed composed and fought through it. i was surprised that he could weather the storm that margo put on him once in a while. so congrats to manny for a great win.

he had good footwork in this fight. it wasnt as all over the place as it usually is. im still wondering though about him fighting certain types of fighters. im impressed that he has beaten all of these big fighters but what about a fighter that is his size that is great? these fights have shown me that i think that smaller opponents are a bigger weakness for manny because of the fact that he is quick and has good enough power to even keep off big guys. all of the bigger opponents have either just followed him around the ring or just stood in one place.

smaller fighters like marquez and morales could actually land punches because they were obviously quicker. they were also more accurate and could counter. thats why i said that manny would have lost to mosley and thats why they turned down that fight. thats why i think that he would lose to mayweather. he hasnt fought a big guy yet that could actually box well (other than de la hoya but he was completely drained and old).

so i think that we are forgetting one important thing. styles make fights. i truly believe that if pac would have stayed down in weight more and tried to clear out divisions, it would have been more difficult for him to do than to go up and beat bigger and slower opponents. again, im not taking away from pac. it was a great win and what he has done has been amazing. im just putting out there that i personally think that this was an easier road for him when for most other fighters, it would have been a much harder road.

The two things that impressed me most last night were Manny's chin and ability to get out of trouble. Just when I thought Manny was on cruise control Margo rocked him and got him against the ropes. He started landing shots that were hurting Pac and would've dropped a lot of good fighters but Pac survived. He handled a number of big shots well throughout the fight. Also, after that first scare he was able to fight Margo in spurts when he got cornered, stun Margo, and slip away with his speed, leaving Margo out of position and exposed. I had no idea Manny could do that.

There was NO holding in the entire fight.

powerpuncher wrote:i truly believe that if pac would have stayed down in weight more and tried to clear out divisions, it would have been more difficult for him to do than to go up and beat bigger and slower opponents. again, im not taking away from pac. it was a great win and what he has done has been amazing. im just putting out there that i personally think that this was an easier road for him when for most other fighters, it would have been a much harder road.

His road has been easier because the guys he has fought were all in various stages of being out of their prime and some of them plain not good (I'm looking at you Margo). However, Pac would've destroyed people at the lighter weights. Assuming he made the same technical changes he has over the past few years no one from 126-135 would last 12 rounds. He beat all of the best there already as a significantly more flawed fighter.

I really could not disagree more strongly. The ONLY way I think your view could be right is if you attribute Manny's extraordinary technical improvements to gaining weight. I think that's a hard case to make.

Did you see how Manny destroyed a 165 pounder's face? Yes he landed over 400 shots to do so, but he has become a LETHAL two handed puncher. JMM had better hope Manny doesn't agree to a third fight because JMM will get carried out on a stretcher. And if Margarito and Cotto couldn't dissuade Manny, how the hell would a smaller, lighter hitting guy?

Impossible to know for sure of course but I think your position isn't defensible...or mine isn't...but one of us is WRONG dammit!

Manny's right hand is equal to the left. You couldn't have imagined that even 5 years ago.

Manny is in his prime NOW. Not against MAB, Morales 1,2,3 or either fight with JMM. Manny and his current 2010 skill set is all time great, the previous Pacquiao was an all generation great.

hardcorebee24 wrote:Manny is in his prime NOW. Not against MAB, Morales 1,2,3 or either fight with JMM. Manny and his current 2010 skill set is all time great, the previous Pacquiao was an all generation great.

That seems completely impossible...but I think you're right.

marbleheadmaui wrote:I really could not disagree more strongly. The ONLY way I think your view could be right is if you attribute Manny's extraordinary technical improvements to gaining weight. I think that's a hard case to make.

Did you see how Manny destroyed a 165 pounder's face? Yes he landed over 400 shots to do so, but he has become a LETHAL two handed puncher. JMM had better hope Manny doesn't agree to a third fight because JMM will get carried out on a stretcher. And if Margarito and Cotto couldn't dissuade Manny, how the hell would a smaller, lighter hitting guy?

Impossible to know for sure of course but I think your position isn't defensible...or mine isn't...but one of us is WRONG dammit!

and i agree that we cant know for sure. its one of those things that he has gotten better but would he really be dominating as much against guys who who faster and harder to hit? i think that has been a huge advantage for manny at the higher weight classes.

lets look at who he has fought at the higher weight classes:

de la hoya: way past his prime and was totally dehydrated. he didnt really even show much in that fight other than that oscar couldnt catch him.

hatton: good win definitely. showed that he carried good power up in weight.

cotto: another good win against a good opponent but i still think that cotto was traumatized by margo and wasnt the same fighter. still impressive.

clottey: clottey didnt throw so that fight showed me nothing

margo: showed me that pac is tough.

his opponents havent necessarily been top rate at this higher weight class. morales and marquez were on a completely different level than any of the above fighters. so has pac gotten better? for sure. but we are basing this off of worse competition just at a higher weight class.

morales and marquez were on a completely different level than any of the above fighters. so has pac gotten better? for sure. but we are basing this off of worse competition just at a higher weight class.[/quote]


Were Morales and Marquez the best fighters Pac has faced? Yes. It is hard to find any guys better than Morales, Marquez and Barerra. Those 3 Mexicans are undoubtedly top 10 of the past 15 years. But it isn't as if the guys he faced above 130 were chumps. They were some of the best there was out there.

powerpuncher wrote:its one of those things that he has gotten better but would he really be dominating as much against guys who who faster and harder to hit? i think that has been a huge advantage for manny at the higher weight classes.

I think he would have been more dominant in the lower weights. No one makes it past 6 rounds. Yes those guys are harder to hit, but Pacquiao was always able to hit them...I don't think that him getting significantly better would change that. Pac was always the fastest and strongest guy in the division. Throw in his improved skills and with his power and accuracy he would eventually connect. The punches he has been hurting these bigger fighters with would be retiring smaller fighters. And given the punches he's shown he can take, there is no one who has been in the division whose punches he couldn't easily walk through.