A case against Shane Mosley being a Hall of Fame Boxer

Shaun wrote:Impressive Wins:
Oscar De La Hoya 1
Antonio Margarito
Luis Collazo

Unimpressive Wins:
Fernando Vargas 1 (cut stopped a close fight)
Fernando Vargas 2 (weight drained, shot Vargas)
Ricardo Mayorga (fight would have been scored a draw if Mayorga won final round)

Controversial Matches:
Oscar De La Hoya 2 (most had Oscar winning... and Shane was on PED's).

Losses:
Vernon Forrest (twice)
Winky Wright (twice)
Miguel Cotto
Floyd Mayweather Jr. (got destroyed)
Manny Pacquiao (didn't even show up to fight)
Sergio Mora (I'm putting this in the losses, because a draw vs Mora is a loss to me)

This is not a hall of fame resume to me. Thoughts?

Of current fighters, who has a HoF resume to you?

Shane's a HoFer. He was a dominant lightweight champion. The Oscar wins were huge. The Margo win was big. Making a distinction between impressive vs. unimpressive wins can become very subjective.

I see him a lot like I see Holy. Dominant in his first weight class. Beat some top fighters when he moved up. Fought everyone. Shane's been unfortunate to finish off the tail end of his career with two potential ATGs.

gomez1012 wrote:He shouldn't get it just bc of PED crap

This might make sense.

If Oscar is HOF, then Shane is. They both dominated the lower weight classes, then moved up to win titles. Shane clearly (pun intended) beat Oscar, but was dominated when he went up too far. Oscar was never even close to being dominant at 147.

flapanther2001 wrote:If Oscar is HOF, then Shane is. They both dominated the lower weight classes, then moved up to win titles. Shane clearly (pun intended) beat Oscar, but was dominated when he went up too far. Oscar was never even close to being dominant at 147.

if he was using PEDs then i dont count those wins and oscar clearly won the second fight.

powerpuncher wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:If Oscar is HOF, then Shane is. They both dominated the lower weight classes, then moved up to win titles. Shane clearly (pun intended) beat Oscar, but was dominated when he went up too far. Oscar was never even close to being dominant at 147.

if he was using PEDs then i dont count those wins and oscar clearly won the second fight.

I agree that Oscar won the 2nd fight, but our opinions don't matter...it's a W for Mosley.

resume wise oscar outshines shane yes by a good margin..both everyone claims was dominate at 135 or so.who was more dominate..oscar was.shane was dominate over shit and over oscars leftovers.first sooner said says best win at 135 may of been leija.shane won via ko in 1998..oscar koed him in 2 but in 1995.vargas shane kos him in 2006 oscar koes him in 2002.moyago shane kos him in 12 in 2008 oscar kos him in 6 in 2006.shane beats molina in 1998 where it was said molina was on the slide down oscar beats him in 1995..a lot of downslide can happen in 3 years.both fought rivera .shane in 1999 oscar in 1997...yes camacho was older but still can fight big time chavez older also both both thoses guys are still better at that stage then anyone shane fought at 135...paez also who was a good entertaing fighter..opps shane forgot to fight him since he feasted on oscars leftovers...lets add quantry who was at his peak when oscar beat him..whitaker is a all time great....oscar had the better career and resume.so if oscar cant cut the mustard in the hall panther based on his resume then how the heck does shane do it...at 135 thoses were shanes biggest wins.all oscar leftovers..

also at 147 thoses fighters were mentioned as big shane wins.

dmar5143 wrote:resume wise oscar outshines shane yes by a good margin..both everyone claims was dominate at 135 or so.who was more dominate..oscar was.shane was dominate over shit and over oscars leftovers.first sooner said says best win at 135 may of been leija.shane won via ko in 1998..oscar koed him in 2 but in 1995.vargas shane kos him in 2006 oscar koes him in 2002.moyago shane kos him in 12 in 2008 oscar kos him in 6 in 2006.shane beats molina in 1998 where it was said molina was on the slide down oscar beats him in 1995..a lot of downslide can happen in 3 years.both fought rivera .shane in 1999 oscar in 1997...yes camacho was older but still can fight big time chavez older also both both thoses guys are still better at that stage then anyone shane fought at 135...paez also who was a good entertaing fighter..opps shane forgot to fight him since he feasted on oscars leftovers...lets add quantry who was at his peak when oscar beat him..whitaker is a all time great....oscar had the better career and resume.so if oscar cant cut the mustard in the hall panther based on his resume then how the heck does shane do it...at 135 thoses were shanes biggest wins.all oscar leftovers..

Wow!! I said he gets in. WTF?

flapanther2001 wrote:If Oscar is HOF, then Shane is. They both dominated the lower weight classes, then moved up to win titles. Shane clearly (pun intended) beat Oscar, but was dominated when he went up too far. Oscar was never even close to being dominant at 147.

...this implies shane was dominate in the 147 class.he only was not dominate when he went up to 154..and that oscar was inferior to shane at 147..not realy true.first shanes 3 big wins at welter were oscar leftovers and one by several years a leftover.oscar beat them first so that dont make shane dominate over oscar..he lost to cotto twice to forest while oscar beat sweet pea and quantry..shane was dominated by floyd at 147 oscar at 154 gave floyd a good fight.the rest of there wins at 147 is nothing to right home about.so niether was dominate so to speak at that weight class and clearly as you implied shane was not more dominate then oscar at 147.saying oscar wasnt dominate at 147 but shane was untill he moved up to 154 just isnt true..oscar has the edge at 147..neither i consider a dominate in the true scense of the word.

dmar5143 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:If Oscar is HOF, then Shane is. They both dominated the lower weight classes, then moved up to win titles. Shane clearly (pun intended) beat Oscar, but was dominated when he went up too far. Oscar was never even close to being dominant at 147.

...this implies shane was dominate in the 147 class.he only was not dominate when he went up to 154..and that oscar was inferior to shane at 147..not realy true.first shanes 3 big wins at welter were oscar leftovers and one by several years a leftover.oscar beat them first so that dont make shane dominate over oscar..he lost to cotto twice to forest while oscar beat sweet pea and quantry..shane was dominated by floyd at 147 oscar at 154 gave floyd a good fight.the rest of there wins at 147 is nothing to right home about.so niether was dominate so to speak at that weight class and clearly as you implied shane was not more dominate then oscar at 147.saying oscar wasnt dominate at 147 but shane was untill he moved up to 154 just isnt true..oscar has the edge at 147..neither i consider a dominate in the true scense of the word.

That's what I've been saying. Neither was dominant at 147, but Shane beat Oscar at that weight. I always wondered why Oscar never fought Vernon Forrest (RIP), instead fighting an ancient Castillejo & Campas?

Rum Capital wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:You didn't mention his career at lightweight at all. During his reign he was unbeatable at 135 before he moved up, and when he did, he beat ODLH in only his 3rd fight at 147. Where'd you learn to break down a career, the Teddy Atlas school of prejudice?

But really he never fought anyone of note at 135. The best guy might have been Jesse James Leija.

wtf?? hell no john john molina even though john was at the end of his career but even in his prime shane would have been too strong.
shane also beat wilfredo rivera at welter who was no slouch just ask fernando vargas and pernell whittakker.

So he is a HOF guy because he beat Rivera?

Soonermark890 wrote:

Rum Capital wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:You didn't mention his career at lightweight at all. During his reign he was unbeatable at 135 before he moved up, and when he did, he beat ODLH in only his 3rd fight at 147. Where'd you learn to break down a career, the Teddy Atlas school of prejudice?

But really he never fought anyone of note at 135. The best guy might have been Jesse James Leija.

wtf?? hell no john john molina even though john was at the end of his career but even in his prime shane would have been too strong.
shane also beat wilfredo rivera at welter who was no slouch just ask fernando vargas and pernell whittakker.

So he is a HOF guy because he beat Rivera?

Certainly not....but he beat Oscar...twice!!!

flapanther2001 wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

Rum Capital wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:You didn't mention his career at lightweight at all. During his reign he was unbeatable at 135 before he moved up, and when he did, he beat ODLH in only his 3rd fight at 147. Where'd you learn to break down a career, the Teddy Atlas school of prejudice?

But really he never fought anyone of note at 135. The best guy might have been Jesse James Leija.

wtf?? hell no john john molina even though john was at the end of his career but even in his prime shane would have been too strong.
shane also beat wilfredo rivera at welter who was no slouch just ask fernando vargas and pernell whittakker.

So he is a HOF guy because he beat Rivera?

Certainly not....but he beat Oscar...twice!!!

No he beat Oscar once. The second time we all know he lost and he was on PED's.

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

Rum Capital wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:You didn't mention his career at lightweight at all. During his reign he was unbeatable at 135 before he moved up, and when he did, he beat ODLH in only his 3rd fight at 147. Where'd you learn to break down a career, the Teddy Atlas school of prejudice?

But really he never fought anyone of note at 135. The best guy might have been Jesse James Leija.

wtf?? hell no john john molina even though john was at the end of his career but even in his prime shane would have been too strong.
shane also beat wilfredo rivera at welter who was no slouch just ask fernando vargas and pernell whittakker.

So he is a HOF guy because he beat Rivera?

Certainly not....but he beat Oscar...twice!!!

No he beat Oscar once. The second time we all know he lost and he was on PED's.

Silly me. I guess I'll have to remember that in our "discussions" only our opinions count, not the actual outcome of fights. Sort of like the guys that claim Castillo "beat" Mayweather because in their opinion.......what was I thinking?

Soonermark890 wrote:

Rum Capital wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:You didn't mention his career at lightweight at all. During his reign he was unbeatable at 135 before he moved up, and when he did, he beat ODLH in only his 3rd fight at 147. Where'd you learn to break down a career, the Teddy Atlas school of prejudice?

But really he never fought anyone of note at 135. The best guy might have been Jesse James Leija.

wtf?? hell no john john molina even though john was at the end of his career but even in his prime shane would have been too strong.
shane also beat wilfredo rivera at welter who was no slouch just ask fernando vargas and pernell whittakker.

So he is a HOF guy because he beat Rivera?

hell no im just saying his lightweight career is often overlooked and then he jumped from lightweight to welter skipping jr. welter
do i tihnk he should go the hof?? hell no but let's not forget how easy it is for many of these guys to enter the hof now. i believe fat dan votes and the moron said he would vote for gatti and......CASAMAYOR!!!!!!!!!!

With today's standards Winky Wright will get into the HOF.

Shhhh listen, that my friends is the sound of Marble kicking his dog.

whether or not mosley beat oscar twice (even though he used PEDs and he should have lost the second fight) it doesnt automatically mean that shane had a better welterweight career. forrest beat mosley twice but he didnt have that great of a welter career. if you look at the fights at 147, oscar's opponents are superior to shanes. and oscar had a better record at welter.

flapanther2001 wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

Rum Capital wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:You didn't mention his career at lightweight at all. During his reign he was unbeatable at 135 before he moved up, and when he did, he beat ODLH in only his 3rd fight at 147. Where'd you learn to break down a career, the Teddy Atlas school of prejudice?

But really he never fought anyone of note at 135. The best guy might have been Jesse James Leija.

wtf?? hell no john john molina even though john was at the end of his career but even in his prime shane would have been too strong.
shane also beat wilfredo rivera at welter who was no slouch just ask fernando vargas and pernell whittakker.

So he is a HOF guy because he beat Rivera?

Certainly not....but he beat Oscar...twice!!!

No he beat Oscar once. The second time we all know he lost and he was on PED's.

Silly me. I guess I'll have to remember that in our "discussions" only our opinions count, not the actual outcome of fights. Sort of like the guys that claim Castillo "beat" Mayweather because in their opinion.......what was I thinking?

I like how you didnt address the PED issue. He cheated. Last time I checked that forfeits that loss anyways regardless of anything else.

A few things that speak loudly for Shane Mosley being in the HOF:

Being the de facto number-one guy in at least 2 weight classes (135/147)

Being the top pound-for pound guy in the sport for even a short period.

Being the first guy to really beat Oscar.

Those are things that are not easy to disregard. In fact, there are a lot of guys in the HOF who never did this much. How high on the PFP list was Barry McGuigan at his heights?

To be a top pfp and not wind up getting into the HOF requires you to flame out like Donald Curry. Mosley didn't do that. He stayed relevant for a long time. He will get in and it will be more or less a no-brainer.

ScottLevinson wrote:A few things that speak loudly for Shane Mosley being in the HOF:

Being the de facto number-one guy in at least 2 weight classes (135/147)

Being the top pound-for pound guy in the sport for even a short period.

Being the first guy to really beat Oscar.

Those are things that are not easy to disregard. In fact, there are a lot of guys in the HOF who never did this much. How high on the PFP list was Barry McGuigan at his heights?

To be a top pfp and not wind up getting into the HOF requires you to flame out like Donald Curry. Mosley didn't do that. He stayed relevant for a long time. He will get in and it will be more or less a no-brainer.

he was never #1 p4p was he?

Gomez, I'm not sure, but I thought Mosley was getting a lot of recognition as the top pfp guy right after he beat DLH and as the boxing world tired of RJJ's safety-first approach as it pertained to opponents.

interesting he cant anser a yes or no anser without a smile or smirk on his face.nor anser it immediatley.it seems gee im searching to say maybe or another excuse anser outside yes.gee i guess i knew it was something it could of been epo yes..you allow someone to inject something in you without asking or them saying what it is before hand.thats exactly what his anser realy says...
barry mc guiggin and yes others like braddock ingo etc etc dont belong in the hall.
mosley hasnt been realy relatvent for years..8-7-1 i think in the last 8 years.ranked very very high on p4p lists for what.yep he was the first to beat oscar..who was the first to beat hagler or monzon two far far greater fighters then mosley ever thought he could be..thoses guys are not in the hall.this epo reason is one big reason to say no and the first to beat oscar is not a strong reason to be in the hall.sorry.he will be voted in sorry but thats true....to say he belongs is a no brainer means myself and others who believe there are reasons why he should not then have no brains.thats exactly what that statement says..
again for the forth time ill state this.thoses implying margo cheated in all his fights must give shane the same treatment then.hes given a pass..so lets not call margo elcheato.lets say hes elcheato2.mosley elcheato1.

yes briefly hes was number 1 p4p..so was an old friend of mine who was defacto the best and rated number 1 bantham in the world 3 staight years and two of thoses years there was no champ and 2 years before that ranked number 2.there was no mythical p4p back then but it was jack dempsey who did the rankings for the first 4 or 5 years for ring magazine and dempsey said after reffing one of his fights this is the greatest fighter i ever saw..so that i guess is a case for number 1 p4p.the 118 was loaded at that time so was 126...my friends not in the hall either..

ScottLevinson wrote:Gomez, I'm not sure, but I thought Mosley was getting a lot of recognition as the top pfp guy right after he beat DLH and as the boxing world tired of RJJ's safety-first approach as it pertained to opponents.

He was, but he was juicing!