Cris Collinsworth is obviously a boxing fan

Not only does he constantly use boxing references, and properly. But in Eagles-Vikings game tonight, he comparing how boxing body shots take their toll on you in the later rounds.

I noticed that too. And he is DEAD right.

Running QB's don't win championships because A) they can't complete a full season and B) they get hit 5 times as often as a pocket QB and one cannot possibly stay sharp or maintain optimum small motor coordination being banged around like the NFL monster defenders bang one around.

Unless your built like Big Ben. I have never seen a QB throw off linebacks and tackles and make plays like he constantly does.

marbleheadmaui wrote:I noticed that too. And he is DEAD right.

Running QB's don't win championships because A) they can't complete a full season and B) they get hit 5 times as often as a pocket QB and one cannot possibly stay sharp or maintain optimum small motor coordination being banged around like the NFL monster defenders bang one around.

You're right up to now, but the new generation of big young QBs coming up (Cam Newton, Tim Tebow even though he sucks, etc.) might change that dynamic. If these guys can take the pounding like a running back and hang in there for a season, I think you'll see offensive coordinators put together the Xs and Os that allow them to have sucess throwing less accurate passes based on how their running threat spreads out the defense.

No need to stick it in the bulls-eye every time ala Tom Brady if you can create the right matchups by keeping the safey's mind on having to tackle some 240lb. monster running at them from an empty backfield.

P.S. - I like Collinsworth too, and his son Austin is playing great special teams for Notre Dame this year. Will probably crack the roster at WR next season.

GrantZilla wrote:Unless your built like Big Ben. I have never seen a QB throw off linebacks and tackles and make plays like he constantly does.

True but Big Ben doesn't run downfield much.

Tobe wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:I noticed that too. And he is DEAD right.

Running QB's don't win championships because A) they can't complete a full season and B) they get hit 5 times as often as a pocket QB and one cannot possibly stay sharp or maintain optimum small motor coordination being banged around like the NFL monster defenders bang one around.

You're right up to now, but the new generation of big young QBs coming up (Cam Newton, Tim Tebow even though he sucks, etc.) might change that dynamic. If these guys can take the pounding like a running back and hang in there for a season, I think you'll see offensive coordinators put together the Xs and Os that allow them to have sucess throwing less accurate passes based on how their running threat spreads out the defense.

No need to stick it in the bulls-eye every time ala Tom Brady if you can create the right matchups by keeping the safey's mind on having to tackle some 240lb. monster running at them from an empty backfield.

P.S. - I like Collinsworth too, and his son Austin is playing great special teams for Notre Dame this year. Will probably crack the roster at WR next season.

If that happens you are right the whole dynamic changes. But people have been trying the running QB thing for what? 40 years now? Bobby Douglas, Randall Cunningham, Vince Young (all big guys) and now Vick etc. I don't think it is POSSIBLE for people to thrive playing that way given how pro-pass the current rules are.

I wanna see someone bring back the triple option and see how that flies in the NFL. Come on Buffalo, Carolina - what do you have to lose?

Tobe wrote:I wanna see someone bring back the triple option and see how that flies in the NFL. Come on Buffalo, Carolina - what do you have to lose?

When Chuck Fairbanks went from coach of Oklahoma to the New England Patriots in like 1973/74 he brought the triple option with him and forced Jim Plunkett of all people to run it. Plunkett got absolutely drilled in the preseason and that basically ended his career with the Pats..

Can you imagine being an option QB, taking the snap, running down the line and optioning James Harrison or Tyrell Suggs or Clay Matthews? Talk about scary.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Tobe wrote:I wanna see someone bring back the triple option and see how that flies in the NFL. Come on Buffalo, Carolina - what do you have to lose?

When Chuck Fairbanks went from coach of Oklahoma to the New England Patriots in like 1973/74 he brought the triple option with him and forced Jim Plunkett of all people to run it. Plunkett got absolutely drilled in the preseason and that basically ended his career with the Pats..

Can you imagine being an option QB, taking the snap, running down the line and optioning James Harrison or Tyrell Suggs or Clay Matthews? Talk about scary.

No doubt - you can't have a real "QB" running that; it'd be more like running the "Wildcat" on every snap, where the guy under center is more of a running back who occassionally throws than a pure passer. I just think you'd be at a big advantage running such a different offense - coaches would have to gameplan just for you, and on short weeks you'd be able to beat some teams that are better than you based on your scheme alone.

RB also rotate. Days of having just one RB getting the rock is over, unless you want that RB to be totaly shot within one or two seasons.

QBs may be getting bigger and stronger, so have defenders.

You can't be rotating your franchise QB every other play like a RB.

Tobe wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Tobe wrote:I wanna see someone bring back the triple option and see how that flies in the NFL. Come on Buffalo, Carolina - what do you have to lose?

When Chuck Fairbanks went from coach of Oklahoma to the New England Patriots in like 1973/74 he brought the triple option with him and forced Jim Plunkett of all people to run it. Plunkett got absolutely drilled in the preseason and that basically ended his career with the Pats..

Can you imagine being an option QB, taking the snap, running down the line and optioning James Harrison or Tyrell Suggs or Clay Matthews? Talk about scary.

No doubt - you can't have a real "QB" running that; it'd be more like running the "Wildcat" on every snap, where the guy under center is more of a running back who occassionally throws than a pure passer. I just think you'd be at a big advantage running such a different offense - coaches would have to gameplan just for you, and on short weeks you'd be able to beat some teams that are better than you based on your scheme alone.

I find it really interesting how in two years the Wildcat has pretty much disappeared as a force. Why? Defenses simply started crashing their ends inside when they saw a ballcarrier taking the snap. The NFL is just RUTHLESS about exposing weaknesses/limitations.

I think in any given week you are right, being odd or unusual can win a game. But over 20 weeks of someone getting to watch you (and that's BEFORE the playoffs) I don't know if it is sustainable. I mean if the offenses is 75% run? How long before there are eight or nine guys in the box for every play? Again, I think the problem is the rules so favor the passing game now what does the wishbone (or something like it) do when they get down 14-0 to a classic dropback passer?

marbleheadmaui wrote:I find it really interesting how in two years the Wildcat has pretty much disappeared as a force. Why? Defenses simply started crashing their ends inside when they saw a ballcarrier taking the snap. The NFL is just RUTHLESS about exposing weaknesses/limitations.

I think in any given week you are right, being odd or unusual can win a game. But over 20 weeks of someone getting to watch you (and that's BEFORE the playoffs) I don't know if it is sustainable. I mean if the offenses is 75% run? How long before there are eight or nine guys in the box for every play? Again, I think the problem is the rules so favor the passing game now what does the wishbone (or something like it) do when they get down 14-0 to a classic dropback passer?

Good points Marble. You're right about the rules as well - one holding call and you kill a drive with an option team. Also don't get the benefit of those pass interference calls that keep so many drives alive.

I guess I'm thinking of this more as a stop-gap for crappy teams with decent defenses and no QBs (Carolina for example). If you could keep an option attack going and hold on to the ball you might get a couple of cheap wins. And you'd have to put the ball up a few times early to keep the defense honest or else they would just crowd the box. But really they're doing that anyway as they're daring teams like the Panthers to throw it. Might as well go whole-hog and try your luck with a running attack; the option at least gives the D something to think about.

Tobe wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:I find it really interesting how in two years the Wildcat has pretty much disappeared as a force. Why? Defenses simply started crashing their ends inside when they saw a ballcarrier taking the snap. The NFL is just RUTHLESS about exposing weaknesses/limitations.

I think in any given week you are right, being odd or unusual can win a game. But over 20 weeks of someone getting to watch you (and that's BEFORE the playoffs) I don't know if it is sustainable. I mean if the offenses is 75% run? How long before there are eight or nine guys in the box for every play? Again, I think the problem is the rules so favor the passing game now what does the wishbone (or something like it) do when they get down 14-0 to a classic dropback passer?

Good points Marble. You're right about the rules as well - one holding call and you kill a drive with an option team. Also don't get the benefit of those pass interference calls that keep so many drives alive.

I guess I'm thinking of this more as a stop-gap for crappy teams with decent defenses and no QBs (Carolina for example). If you could keep an option attack going and hold on to the ball you might get a couple of cheap wins. And you'd have to put the ball up a few times early to keep the defense honest or else they would just crowd the box. But really they're doing that anyway as they're daring teams like the Panthers to throw it. Might as well go whole-hog and try your luck with a running attack; the option at least gives the D something to think about.

I've been advocating for the Devil here a bit. One of the things I like about collegew ball is the diversity of offenses. I just wonder in the pro game how many option QB's one would go through in a month. I mean those guys really are defenseless when they are in the act of pitching and I can just see James harrison killing some poor guy and screaming at their sideline "Who's Next?"

I gurantee, Eagles sign Vick to a big deal, and he get's a career ending injurry that year. Or debilitating one.

I found this whole thread really interesting. I'll go out on a limb and predict that some of these statements against a "running QB" will be proven this Sunday, when the Pack destroys the Eagles. I also agree that Vick has a short career.

Note: If Vick does manage to win this Sunday and he comes to Atanta, I'm seriously tempted to let a "Pit Bull" out on the field. It would be a sick but effective practical joke. Of course the dog would be a puppy for safety reasons.

Can somebody tell me how much time I'd get for that? I know this is crazy but I'm a passionate dog lover. Maybe not passionate enough to even do a day in a jail cell, but I'm thinking about it. On 2nd thought, I've seen some really hot babes that are fanatical dog lovers. I mean really hot. Somebody talk me out of this. - LOL Hey Sooner? Marble? Dmar? Where are you?!

Frank wrote:I found this whole thread really interesting. I'll go out on a limb and predict that some of these statements against a "running QB" will be proven this Sunday, when the Pack destroys the Eagles. I also agree that Vick has a short career.

Note: If Vick does manage to win this Sunday and he comes to Atanta, I'm seriously tempted to let a "Pit Bull" out on the field. It would be a sick but effective practical joke. Of course the dog would be a puppy for safety reasons.

Can somebody tell me how much time I'd get for that? I know this is crazy but I'm a passionate dog lover. Maybe not passionate enough to even do a day in a jail cell, but I'm thinking about it. On 2nd thought, I've seen some really hot babes that are fanatical dog lovers. I mean really hot. Somebody talk me out of this. - LOL Hey Sooner? Marble? Dmar? Where are you?!

I too am a serious dog lover. On the other hand Vick is now supposed to be all-square isn't he?
As for releasing the dog, you'd be an instant celebrity...good way to get to Hollywood!

Just seek UGA on Vick

GrantZilla wrote:Just seek UGA on Vick

Maybe THE greatest mascot action in sports history!

GrantZilla wrote:Just seek UGA on Vick

I love it. LOL