Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

from boxingscene


By Bill Emes

WBC/WBA junior welterweight champion Danny Garcia is riding high after his four round destruction of Erik Morales on Saturday night at Barclays Center in Brooklyn. Garcia won a twelve round decision over Morales in March, but promised to stop him in four when the rematch got signed.

"That's two predictions in a row that I got [regarding four round knockouts," Garcia (25-0, 16KOs) told BoxingScene.com

Garcia now wants the best in 2013.

"Whatever Golden Boy wants. I want the best. I want the big fights. If my dad thinks I'm ready, if my manager thinks I'm ready. I think I'm ready but I'll let them do that," Garcia said.

One possible option is Argentine bomber Lucas Matthysse (32-2, 30KOs), who captured the WBC's interim-title last month with a ten round TKO of Ajose Olusegun. Matthysse believes he earned a crack at Garcia, but the unified champion is not that impressed with him.

"It would be a good fight, but how can you be one of the best when you have no titles? He has two losses. I take nothing away from him. He's a good fighter, but he's not like no world-class superstar or nothing. He's just a regular tough guy to me, I've seen them before," Garcia said.

Zab Judah and Devon Alexander have called Matthysse one of the hardest punchers, if not the hardest, that they ever faced.

"That's because they never faced me yet," Garcia chimed in.

Judah (42-7, 29KOs), who has a good following on the East Coast, is one possible option for Garcia's next fight, which may take place at Barclays.


My take:
I love when a fighter criticizes someone for having two losses (both of which were close fights that would have gone his way if he were the house fighter).

I am sick of fighters that shit on other fighters that they would rather not face. I hate when promoters do it as well. Not that Donaire won't beat Rigondeaux, but for Arum and Donaire's management to say that Mathebula made financial sense is bullshit. He had a trinket and they considered it less risky than Rigondeaux. Just be men. Don't bullshit us. Fans aren't stupid.

Neither Sanctioning body, the WBC or WBA has Matthysse ranked....WTF????

In fairness Mathysse hasn't fought a ranked opponent since he lost (officially) to Alexander. I know folks are avoiding him but two of his last four opponents were club fighters not even ranked in the top 200. To say that they won't throw Garcia in there with a guy like Mathysse I believe is false. This guy earned what he has by beating Campbell, Holt, Morales twice and Khan. All these fights save for Campbell were high risk low reward affairs. Khan was supposed to blow this guy out and Morales had recently given a higher ranked and more established Maidana fits, and just blew out Cano, bottom line he was dangerous. Holt was extremely dangerous for a young prospect. This kid IMO has been given no gifts. Morales that cheating asshole, exercised his rematch clause and forced Garcia into this bout. Garcia is 24 and is being moved along right where we want him to be compared to other fighters of late.

Garcia was the headliner this weekend and GBP was giving away tickets and upgrading those who did buy tickets! He has not shown he can draw much like Mathysse here in the US! So maybe they go with Judah in his next fight (who has 7 losses 3 by KO) and continue to build up his name and have Mathysse as a co feature with somebody like a Breidis Prescott or another fan friendly fighter to build up toward a fight in the fall of 2013! Or even a Khan rematch would do just fine with Garcia and me!!!

WBO Rankings,,,,,tell me what's wrong with this picture....

JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs)
Title Name Country
CHAMPION JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ (Sup Champion) MEX
Female FERNANDA SOLEDAD ALEGRE ARG
1 Mike Alvarado USA
2 Ruslan Provodnikov (Inter-Continental) RUS
3 Cesar Rene Cuenca (Latino Int) ARG
4 Brandon Rios USA
5 Kendall Holt USA
6 Karim Mayfield (NABO) USA
7 Jason Pagara (International) PHI
8 Mike Dallas, Jr. MEX
9 Chad Bennett (Oriental Int.) (Asia-Pac) AUST
10 Mercito Gesta PHI
11 Vicente Mosquera PAN
12 Ebenezer Lantei Lamptey (WBO Africa) GHA
13 Solomon Egberime (Oriental) AUST
14 Humberto Soto MEX
15 Al Sabaupan PHI

i hate it when a fighter says that they arent impressed by somebody and then elects to fight somebody who isnt as good. although judah won that fight, it was close and judah has only gotten worse and matthysse better. this is THE fight at 140 right now. to me, it shows who the best 140 pounder is. they are both promoted by golden boy too (im pretty sure) so it should be able to happen pretty easily.

anyways, my rant is that you can say that a fighter isnt that great but obviously boxing fans believe that matthysse is his best option. so if he isnt that good, why not just fight him and show that you are the best? instead, you are going to fight judah who wont really raise your reputation at all.

powerpuncher wrote:i hate it when a fighter says that they arent impressed by somebody and then elects to fight somebody who isnt as good. although judah won that fight, it was close and judah has only gotten worse and matthysse better. this is THE fight at 140 right now. to me, it shows who the best 140 pounder is. they are both promoted by golden boy too (im pretty sure) so it should be able to happen pretty easily.

anyways, my rant is that you can say that a fighter isnt that great but obviously boxing fans believe that matthysse is his best option. so if he isnt that good, why not just fight him and show that you are the best? instead, you are going to fight judah who wont really raise your reputation at all.

+1 Judah is a step backwards at this stage. I fought when Mattysse and Olusegun fought it was for mandatory challenger status for the WBC trinket???

dbudge wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:i hate it when a fighter says that they arent impressed by somebody and then elects to fight somebody who isnt as good. although judah won that fight, it was close and judah has only gotten worse and matthysse better. this is THE fight at 140 right now. to me, it shows who the best 140 pounder is. they are both promoted by golden boy too (im pretty sure) so it should be able to happen pretty easily.

anyways, my rant is that you can say that a fighter isnt that great but obviously boxing fans believe that matthysse is his best option. so if he isnt that good, why not just fight him and show that you are the best? instead, you are going to fight judah who wont really raise your reputation at all.

+1 Judah is a step backwards at this stage. I fought when Mattysse and Olusegun fought it was for mandatory challenger status for the WBC trinket???

it was an interim trinket I think.

hardcorebee24 wrote:In fairness Mathysse hasn't fought a ranked opponent since he lost (officially) to Alexander. I know folks are avoiding him but two of his last four opponents were club fighters not even ranked in the top 200. To say that they won't throw Garcia in there with a guy like Mathysse I believe is false. This guy earned what he has by beating Campbell, Holt, Morales twice and Khan. All these fights save for Campbell were high risk low reward affairs. Khan was supposed to blow this guy out and Morales had recently given a higher ranked and more established Maidana fits, and just blew out Cano, bottom line he was dangerous. Holt was extremely dangerous for a young prospect. This kid IMO has been given no gifts. Morales that cheating asshole, exercised his rematch clause and forced Garcia into this bout. Garcia is 24 and is being moved along right where we want him to be compared to other fighters of late.

Olosegun was ranked by ring. Soto had been ranked at 135, but not 140, didn't deserve to be, and he is an older fighter on the downside. But flattening that SOB in the fashion that he did isn't anything to scoff at.

LM won both the Alexander and Judah fights in my opinion (and seems to be the opinion of many boxing fans and writers). We know how boxing works. If you aren't the bigger name, forget winning the close fights.

Garcia is a tough SOB, a damn good fighter, and has faced very good competition. But you can't dispute that Garcia's talk sounds like someone that doesn't want to face Matthyse. When someone brings up someone ranked number 1 by ring magazine, and drops everyone he fights, and you immediately call that fighter shit, then it sounds like you would rather not fight that guy.

More importantly- why is Golden Boy not even talking about the possibility of a fight between them? I don't say that they have to fight Matthyse next or he is ducking him (that is completely ignorant to think). But it is one fight that should be considered, especially considering that they promote both guys and don't have to go outside the company to make it happen.

flapanther2001 wrote:WBO Rankings,,,,,tell me what's wrong with this picture....

JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs)
Title Name Country
CHAMPION JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ (Sup Champion) MEX
Female FERNANDA SOLEDAD ALEGRE ARG
1 Mike Alvarado USA
2 Ruslan Provodnikov (Inter-Continental) RUS
3 Cesar Rene Cuenca (Latino Int) ARG
4 Brandon Rios USA
5 Kendall Holt USA
6 Karim Mayfield (NABO) USA
7 Jason Pagara (International) PHI
8 Mike Dallas, Jr. MEX
9 Chad Bennett (Oriental Int.) (Asia-Pac) AUST
10 Mercito Gesta PHI
11 Vicente Mosquera PAN
12 Ebenezer Lantei Lamptey (WBO Africa) GHA
13 Solomon Egberime (Oriental) AUST
14 Humberto Soto MEX
15 Al Sabaupan PHI

That is what you talking about?

nano212 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:WBO Rankings,,,,,tell me what's wrong with this picture....

JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs)
Title Name Country
CHAMPION JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ (Sup Champion) MEX
Female FERNANDA SOLEDAD ALEGRE ARG
1 Mike Alvarado USA
2 Ruslan Provodnikov (Inter-Continental) RUS
3 Cesar Rene Cuenca (Latino Int) ARG
4 Brandon Rios USA
5 Kendall Holt USA
6 Karim Mayfield (NABO) USA
7 Jason Pagara (International) PHI
8 Mike Dallas, Jr. MEX
9 Chad Bennett (Oriental Int.) (Asia-Pac) AUST
10 Mercito Gesta PHI
11 Vicente Mosquera PAN
12 Ebenezer Lantei Lamptey (WBO Africa) GHA
13 Solomon Egberime (Oriental) AUST
14 Humberto Soto MEX
15 Al Sabaupan PHI

That is what you talking about?

a couple of things. Matthyse isn't ranked, but he spanked Soto. Soto is ranked 14. The discrepancy pointed out by nano as well. I'd hope when they update their rankings they will move Rios above Alvarado (which I assume they havent' updated since the fight).

No Lucas Matthyse
No Amir Kahn
No Zab Judah

lol.the ranking show or bring out my thoughts on about 10 guys with a who the fuck are they.

there are ones I don't know and ones that are sketchy at best.

vicente mosquera. a tough SOB that Valero beat for a belt at 130.
1-This isn't 130. This is 140.
2-Mosquera hasn't beaten anyone of note since losing the belt to Valero
3-he lost the belt to valero in 2006. It isn't 2006, it is 2012.

flapanther2001 wrote:WBO Rankings,,,,,tell me what's wrong with this picture....

JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs)
Title Name Country
CHAMPION JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ (Sup Champion) MEX
Female FERNANDA SOLEDAD ALEGRE ARG
1 Mike Alvarado USA
2 Ruslan Provodnikov (Inter-Continental) RUS
3 Cesar Rene Cuenca (Latino Int) ARG
4 Brandon Rios USA
5 Kendall Holt USA
6 Karim Mayfield (NABO) USA
7 Jason Pagara (International) PHI
8 Mike Dallas, Jr. MEX
9 Chad Bennett (Oriental Int.) (Asia-Pac) AUST
10 Mercito Gesta PHI
11 Vicente Mosquera PAN
12 Ebenezer Lantei Lamptey (WBO Africa) GHA
13 Solomon Egberime (Oriental) AUST
14 Humberto Soto MEX
15 Al Sabaupan PHI

This!!!!!!!!!

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:In fairness Mathysse hasn't fought a ranked opponent since he lost (officially) to Alexander. I know folks are avoiding him but two of his last four opponents were club fighters not even ranked in the top 200. To say that they won't throw Garcia in there with a guy like Mathysse I believe is false. This guy earned what he has by beating Campbell, Holt, Morales twice and Khan. All these fights save for Campbell were high risk low reward affairs. Khan was supposed to blow this guy out and Morales had recently given a higher ranked and more established Maidana fits, and just blew out Cano, bottom line he was dangerous. Holt was extremely dangerous for a young prospect. This kid IMO has been given no gifts. Morales that cheating asshole, exercised his rematch clause and forced Garcia into this bout. Garcia is 24 and is being moved along right where we want him to be compared to other fighters of late.

Olosegun was ranked by ring. Soto had been ranked at 135, but not 140, didn't deserve to be, and he is an older fighter on the downside. But flattening that SOB in the fashion that he did isn't anything to scoff at.

LM won both the Alexander and Judah fights in my opinion (and seems to be the opinion of many boxing fans and writers). We know how boxing works. If you aren't the bigger name, forget winning the close fights.

Garcia is a tough SOB, a damn good fighter, and has faced very good competition. But you can't dispute that Garcia's talk sounds like someone that doesn't want to face Matthyse. When someone brings up someone ranked number 1 by ring magazine, and drops everyone he fights, and you immediately call that fighter shit, then it sounds like you would rather not fight that guy.

More importantly- why is Golden Boy not even talking about the possibility of a fight between them? I don't say that they have to fight Matthyse next or he is ducking him (that is completely ignorant to think). But it is one fight that should be considered, especially considering that they promote both guys and don't have to go outside the company to make it happen.

I thought you were alluding to a duck. With Garcia's track record he doesn't look like a guy who'll duck anyone. Mathysse should try and get a bigger fight soon though if he wants a shot.

hardcorebee24 wrote:

captainanddew wrote:

hardcorebee24 wrote:In fairness Mathysse hasn't fought a ranked opponent since he lost (officially) to Alexander. I know folks are avoiding him but two of his last four opponents were club fighters not even ranked in the top 200. To say that they won't throw Garcia in there with a guy like Mathysse I believe is false. This guy earned what he has by beating Campbell, Holt, Morales twice and Khan. All these fights save for Campbell were high risk low reward affairs. Khan was supposed to blow this guy out and Morales had recently given a higher ranked and more established Maidana fits, and just blew out Cano, bottom line he was dangerous. Holt was extremely dangerous for a young prospect. This kid IMO has been given no gifts. Morales that cheating asshole, exercised his rematch clause and forced Garcia into this bout. Garcia is 24 and is being moved along right where we want him to be compared to other fighters of late.

Olosegun was ranked by ring. Soto had been ranked at 135, but not 140, didn't deserve to be, and he is an older fighter on the downside. But flattening that SOB in the fashion that he did isn't anything to scoff at.

LM won both the Alexander and Judah fights in my opinion (and seems to be the opinion of many boxing fans and writers). We know how boxing works. If you aren't the bigger name, forget winning the close fights.

Garcia is a tough SOB, a damn good fighter, and has faced very good competition. But you can't dispute that Garcia's talk sounds like someone that doesn't want to face Matthyse. When someone brings up someone ranked number 1 by ring magazine, and drops everyone he fights, and you immediately call that fighter shit, then it sounds like you would rather not fight that guy.

More importantly- why is Golden Boy not even talking about the possibility of a fight between them? I don't say that they have to fight Matthyse next or he is ducking him (that is completely ignorant to think). But it is one fight that should be considered, especially considering that they promote both guys and don't have to go outside the company to make it happen.

I thought you were alluding to a duck. With Garcia's track record he doesn't look like a guy who'll duck anyone. Mathysse should try and get a bigger fight soon though if he wants a shot.

no I don't say a kid like him who has done what he has done is ducking. I do think he isn't rushing to face Matthyse. That is understandable. It is very tough fight on paper and there are other guys who make him as much (or maybe more) money.

But when he goes off saying LM isn't anything, doesn't have a title so he sucks, and has 2 losses, it comes off as someone who is making excuses after not having been the type of fighter.

I would have no problem with him giving an answer stating that he will take on anyone, his team will come up with a list of guys, etc... That is truthful.

But don't come out and shit on someone with comments that don't make alot of sense.

captainanddew wrote:

nano212 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:WBO Rankings,,,,,tell me what's wrong with this picture....

JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs)
Title Name Country
CHAMPION JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ (Sup Champion) MEX
Female FERNANDA SOLEDAD ALEGRE ARG
1 Mike Alvarado USA
2 Ruslan Provodnikov (Inter-Continental) RUS
3 Cesar Rene Cuenca (Latino Int) ARG
4 Brandon Rios USA
5 Kendall Holt USA
6 Karim Mayfield (NABO) USA
7 Jason Pagara (International) PHI
8 Mike Dallas, Jr. MEX
9 Chad Bennett (Oriental Int.) (Asia-Pac) AUST
10 Mercito Gesta PHI
11 Vicente Mosquera PAN
12 Ebenezer Lantei Lamptey (WBO Africa) GHA
13 Solomon Egberime (Oriental) AUST
14 Humberto Soto MEX
15 Al Sabaupan PHI

That is what you talking about?

a couple of things. Matthyse isn't ranked, but he spanked Soto. Soto is ranked 14. The discrepancy pointed out by nano as well. I'd hope when they update their rankings they will move Rios above Alvarado (which I assume they havent' updated since the fight).

No Lucas Matthyse
No Amir Kahn
No Zab Judah

I was just pointing out Mike Dallas jr because they have is country listed as Mexico ha ha

I got mixed feelings about this.

To say Matthysse hasn't fought anyone when he just beat a guy in Olosugun who would give ANYONE at 140 problems (and may have merited at least a draw with Alexander and Judah) is kind of hating on the Argentinian for no good reason. Lucas is legit, and he may be overdue for a big money fight or at least something to give him a chance to be thought of as truly elite if he wins.

That being said, I don't think Garcia owes him a thing. Danny has the same right Lucas does to sign the biggest, most high profile fight he can and unfortunately that is not Lucas.

Would I like to see this? Do bears crap in the woods and occasionally screw up camping trips?

ABSOLUTELY!

But I won't rag Garcia or call him a duck if it doesn't happen, just like I won't fault Lucas for trying to make him out as one in a vain attempt to get under Garcia's skin and get the fight made.

nano212 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:WBO Rankings,,,,,tell me what's wrong with this picture....

JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs)
Title Name Country
CHAMPION JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ (Sup Champion) MEX
Female FERNANDA SOLEDAD ALEGRE ARG
1 Mike Alvarado USA
2 Ruslan Provodnikov (Inter-Continental) RUS
3 Cesar Rene Cuenca (Latino Int) ARG
4 Brandon Rios USA
5 Kendall Holt USA
6 Karim Mayfield (NABO) USA
7 Jason Pagara (International) PHI
8 Mike Dallas, Jr. MEX
9 Chad Bennett (Oriental Int.) (Asia-Pac) AUST
10 Mercito Gesta PHI
11 Vicente Mosquera PAN
12 Ebenezer Lantei Lamptey (WBO Africa) GHA
13 Solomon Egberime (Oriental) AUST
14 Humberto Soto MEX
15 Al Sabaupan PHI

That is what you talking about?

LOL....among other things, yeah.

Matthysse's fight with Olusugan was for the interim WBC Light Welterweight Title, so how is he not in line for the next title shot?

CHAMPION: DANNY GARCIA (US)
INTERIM CHAMPION: LUCAS MATTHYSSE (ARGENTINA)
WON TITLE: March 24, 2012
LAST DEFENCE: July 14, 2012
LAST COMPULSORY: August 1, 2009 by Alexander
WBA CHAMPION: VACANT
IBF CHAMPION: Lamont Peterson (US)
WBO CHAMPION: Juan Manuel Marquez (Mexico)
Contenders:
WBC SILVER CHAMPION: Roberto Ortiz (Mexico)
WBC INT. CHAMPION: Prawet Singwangcha (Thailand)

clasificaciones_eng_18 Prawet Singwangcha (Thai) INTL
Erik Morales (Mexico)
Ajose Olusegun (Nigeria)
Roberto Ortiz (Mexico) SILVER
Dierry Jean (Canada) NABF
Yoshihiro Kamegai (Japan)
Denis Shafikov (Russia) EBU
Amir Khan (GB)
Humberto Soto (Mexico)
Kendall Holt (US)
DeMarcus Corley (US)
Vicente Mosquera (Panama)
Viktor Postol (Ukraine) INTL SILVER
Alberto Mosquera (Panama)
Cesar Cuenca (Argentina)


Antonio Lozada Jr. (Mexico)
Paul Spadafora (US)
Min-Wook Kim (Korea) OPBF
Breidis Prescott (Colombia)
Khabib Allakhverdiev (Russia)
Luis Ramos (US)
Danny O'Connor (US)
Joan Guzman (Dom. R.)
Pier Olivier Cote (Canada)
Daniel Rasilla (Spain)
Michelle Di Rocco (Italy)
Ruslan Provodnikov (Russia) ABCO
Mike Dallas Jr. (US)
Javier Prieto (Mexico)
Jean Pierre Bauwens (Belgium)
Darren Hamilton (GB) BBB C
Jason Pagara (Phil)
Ashley Theophane (GB)
Ivan Cano (Mexico) YOUTH
Petar Zivkovic (Serbia) CISBB
Karim Mayfield (US)
Tony Luis (Canada)
Cleotis Pendarvis (US) USNBC
Ali Oubaali (Morocco/France) MEDITERRANEAN
Miguel Antoine (Barbados) CABOFE

Again, good post, flpanther.

But, like I said, there are bigger fights out there for Garcia and I don't blame him one bit for chasing them.

It may not be the best in form to denigrate another fighter just because you see greener grass elsewhere, tho.

But I understand it and won't call Danny a duck because of it.

koolkc107 wrote:Again, good post, flpanther.

But, like I said, there are bigger fights out there for Garcia and I don't blame him one bit for chasing them.

It may not be the best in form to denigrate another fighter just because you see greener grass elsewhere, tho.

But I understand it and won't call Danny a duck because of it.

Still, Matthysse should fall into the category of "Mandatory Challenger", no?

flapanther2001 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:Again, good post, flpanther.

But, like I said, there are bigger fights out there for Garcia and I don't blame him one bit for chasing them.

It may not be the best in form to denigrate another fighter just because you see greener grass elsewhere, tho.

But I understand it and won't call Danny a duck because of it.

Still, Matthysse should fall into the category of "Mandatory Challenger", no?

Yes.

But what does mandatory mean?

We care less about mandatory when there is a better fight to be made, whether we are fighters, promoters or even fans. Who would want Manny and Floyd to avoid fighting each other because of some mandatory one of them had?

Personally, I'd like to see Garcia take a welterweight bout. Loved to see how some of those guys up there handle his power. The added bonus of course is, unlike a guy like Bailey, Danny has skill enough to deliver that power against really good boxers.

koolkc107 wrote:

flapanther2001 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:Again, good post, flpanther.

But, like I said, there are bigger fights out there for Garcia and I don't blame him one bit for chasing them.

It may not be the best in form to denigrate another fighter just because you see greener grass elsewhere, tho.

But I understand it and won't call Danny a duck because of it.

Still, Matthysse should fall into the category of "Mandatory Challenger", no?

Yes.

But what does mandatory mean?

We care less about mandatory when there is a better fight to be made, whether we are fighters, promoters or even fans. Who would want Manny and Floyd to avoid fighting each other because of some mandatory one of them had?

Personally, I'd like to see Garcia take a welterweight bout. Loved to see how some of those guys up there handle his power. The added bonus of course is, unlike a guy like Bailey, Danny has skill enough to deliver that power against really good boxers.

I'd like to see him face Matthyse (doable) or Rios (probably not doable because of TR/GB feud). Garcia vs Matthyse would be a brutal fight with alot of action. Both guys can be hit, both can punch, and the natural instinct of either guy is to brawl more than they probably should.

I'm a LM fan. I admit it. But that fight has possible fight of the year written all over it.

Why not win a couple more fights at 140 and clean it out a bit before moving up? Garcia is 24, not 28 or 30.

i just realized that 140 has a few really good fights to be made. any mix of rios/garcia/matthysse could be FOTY potential. throw alvarado in there, its the same thing. those fights need to be made.