Manny is going to train at the wild card

There is a good article on espn right now about how manny wants to KO jmm so he will be training with roach the entire time. Will this help? I really think it will limit his distractions and could bring back the old PAC.

Its all hype. Roach is an idiot, he said Manny won't win a Desicion over Marquez. Was he shaking When Micheal Buffer was reading the Desicions in their past 3 fights?

Marquez has to win by KO or win all 12 rounds for a split Desicion.

Soonermark890 wrote:There is a good article on espn right now about how manny wants to KO jmm so he will be training with roach the entire time. Will this help? I really think it will limit his distractions and could bring back the old PAC.

the decline in pac has more to do with father time than distractions.

captainanddew wrote:

Soonermark890 wrote:There is a good article on espn right now about how manny wants to KO jmm so he will be training with roach the entire time. Will this help? I really think it will limit his distractions and could bring back the old PAC.

the decline in pac has more to do with father time than distractions.

Let me clarity what I mean by old Pac. The guy who doesnt get cramps during the fight and the attitude of just being a fighter again. The decline you cant reverse but conditioning and attitude can be changed. And both of those have been missing in the last couple of years.

i think this fight will be semi close like the rest of them with marquez being the victor again. my only dilemma is if the judges will feel so bad for marquez that they have to give him the decision, or if pac is still a big enough star for them not wanting him to lose 2 in a row.

Like Manny didn't want to KO JMM the last time they fought? Or like he didn't want to KO any of his last 5 opponents? Manny's just losing it, plain a simple, I don't care where he's training...

hillsicc303 wrote:Like Manny didn't want to KO JMM the last time they fought? Or like he didn't want to KO any of his last 5 opponents? Manny's just losing it, plain a simple, I don't care where he's training...

i agree. if he was going to KO JMM, it would have already happened unless father time has really hit JMM and its the pac-morales fight all over again. the only difference is that i dont think pac has it in him anymore.

From what I have read, it looks like Pac realizes this is for all intents and purposes his last chance to make a statement against Marquez. I could be naive because they say similar crap before every fight but I think Manny will be rededicated for this fight. Unfortunately for him, he is going to find out he no longer has the extra gear he used to have. I predict a higher paced fight than the 3rd fight with JMM tasting the canvas early and Pac at the very least being cut but most likely visiting the mat as well.

Being a big Pac fan who had Pac easily winning the first 2 fights and a draw or JMM shading the 3rd, I will predict Pac TKO11 to go out on a limb

UBeeg9cats wrote:From what I have read, it looks like Pac realizes this is for all intents and purposes his last chance to make a statement against Marquez. I could be naive because they say similar crap before every fight but I think Manny will be rededicated for this fight. Unfortunately for him, he is going to find out he no longer has the extra gear he used to have. I predict a higher paced fight than the 3rd fight with JMM tasting the canvas early and Pac at the very least being cut but most likely visiting the mat as well.

Being a big Pac fan who had Pac easily winning the first 2 fights and a draw or JMM shading the 3rd, I will predict Pac TKO11 to go out on a limb

If Pac is dedicated again I say he gets a late stoppage.

both have slipped a bit.yes pac realizes a one site training camp is best.im sure he will be or both will be dedicated.im hoping pac blows him out in two with several knockdowns.thats hoping not a prediction.

dmar5143 wrote:both have slipped a bit.yes pac realizes a one site training camp is best.im sure he will be or both will be dedicated.im hoping pac blows him out in two with several knockdowns.thats hoping not a prediction.

Me too.

why would you hope for pac to beat JMM? JMM has gotten robbed 3 times (well the 2nd fight wasnt a robbery. it was the only fight though that i could see it going either way) and he has gotten the shaft his entire career.

pac become #1 p4p because the judges gave him the decision in their second fight which made mayweather fight JMM and then created a ton of hype for a mayweather-pac fight. if mayweather came back and fought pac instead of JMM, mayweather would have TKO'd him. JMM has worked hard to get where he is and has been disrespected a ton. he is a true old school fighter that has gone through everybody and hasnt gotten to hand pick opponents like mayweather or pac.

i really hope that JMM can KO pac and solidify who the better of the 2 are. JMM and pac are very close in all time greatness. pac just had a style to make him more popular and has gotten a lot more publicity. if JMM got what pac got, he would also be considered unstoppable since his only real loss (in my opinion) for years is against mayweather.

powerpuncher wrote:why would you hope for pac to beat JMM? JMM has gotten robbed 3 times (well the 2nd fight wasnt a robbery. it was the only fight though that i could see it going either way) and he has gotten the shaft his entire career.

pac become #1 p4p because the judges gave him the decision in their second fight which made mayweather fight JMM and then created a ton of hype for a mayweather-pac fight. if mayweather came back and fought pac instead of JMM, mayweather would have TKO'd him. JMM has worked hard to get where he is and has been disrespected a ton. he is a true old school fighter that has gone through everybody and hasnt gotten to hand pick opponents like mayweather or pac.

i really hope that JMM can KO pac and solidify who the better of the 2 are. JMM and pac are very close in all time greatness. pac just had a style to make him more popular and has gotten a lot more publicity. if JMM got what pac got, he would also be considered unstoppable since his only real loss (in my opinion) for years is against mayweather.

We must judge differently because I had Manny by 3 pts in the first and second fight. I also think that just because JMM lost several close decisions does not make any of them robberies but I haven't watched all the fights. I know the only American journalist at the John fight had John winning. JMM won the Barrera fight where the ref missed a KD and then penalized MAB. Even with that 2 point swing, Lederman had MAB winning. JMM has won 7 belts. The MAB and Casamayor ones are the only non-vacant, non-elevated belts he won. Let's be honest also that Casamayor didn't deserve to still be champ. Winning 5 vacant belts, poor reffing to get another, and fighting an old man undeserving of still being champ is not how most "shafted" fighter's careers go. He is a sure fire HOF fighter and one of the top of his generation but this crying foul routine rubs me the wrong way.

Manny became famous by making a 2 division jump to fight the biggest name immediately after making a division jump. He was a massive underdog and destroyed ODLH. JMM could not do the same with his opportunity against Floyd who was a much more difficult opponent than Oscar. Manny had 3 lineal titles when making the jump while JMM still only has 1 in his career. Manny followed up the Oscar fight by fighting a big name, undefeated at the weight, lineal champ while JMM followed up the Floyd fight by fighting the last guy he beat who had looked terrible in his interim fights. Lastly, the 2 fights prior to their 3rd meeting: Manny fights a man with an iron chin, fantastic workrate, and a 17 lb advantage who happens to be a former titlist. He follows it up with a very weak defense against a dead in the water future HOF. JMM fights Katsidis which was a good defense but follows up with a Likar Ramos fight. People were fine with those fights for JMM and destroyed Pac for the 2 fights. I don't know about you but I think Margarito kills Katsidis even if they were the same size and I take Shane over Ramos as well.

JMM was around the same time in the same weight as barrera and morales. he could never get a fight with either of them. he had a very good chance of beating them both which would have automatically boosted his status. just like pacs status was hugely boosted after beating barrera and he got a fight with morales. and the reason that JMM didnt fight all of those people that pac fought is because, as stated before, pac is a more "exciting" fighter so he was pushed towards those fights and hand picked opponents while weight draining them so that he could win and make himself look greater than he was. as i have always stated, there is a reason pac become so dominate when he moved up. its because his style does better against slower fighters without a ton of stamina because his power moves up well with him and so does his speed.

pac had trouble with guys down in weight like JMM who was quick enough to counter him and also morales who was also fast enough to land shots and not let pac jump in and out on him like he did against bigger fighters. JMM fought everybody he could. i guarantee that if JMM was given 10 million dollars to fight cotto at a 144 catchweight that he would do it. and i think that he has a good chance to win (although many people may disagree). JMM also fought mayweather unlike pac.

some fighters just have styles that look pleasing so they are perceived a lot better. i guarantee that mike tyson would destroyed his opponents worse than muhammad ali would have because of styles, but ali would have easily beaten tyson because he is better and his style is all wrong for tyson. thats how i feel with JMM and pac. pac is explosive, so he can look spectacular against fighters and KO them while JMM just goes in there and wins whether or not he looks super impressive.

last point is as ive always said, whoever you had winning their 3 fights, they were all disputed in some sense. so technically, JMM could have won all 3. and if the judges were in his favor, would pac have had his huge "immortal" streak going still? pac and JMM were #1 and #2 p4p and it was only because pac got the close decision in their second fight which is why mayweather fought JMM. so if JMM won their fight, mayweather may have fought pac and IMO would have destroyed him and then this whole pac saga is pretty much gone. so mainly, he is an all time great but he had some fortune come his way that JMM has never gotten.

ubegs some good points.why root against jmm.if someones a pac fan that should anser the question.why root against pac.same anser..jmm did not win all 3 fights.ilove how scoring becomes automatic.a guy scores a knockdown and its a 10-8.thats a 2 point swing.he scores 2 more knockdowns and judges say hey thats a 10-6 round.why are the other knockdowns only a one point thing..heavenforbid if someone scored that round 10-5.a 3 point win for pac is about correct in the first fight.i scored the firsttwo fights round by round exactly like letterman.the first round i was leaning towards a 10-5...i find it strange that no one says that the vote or votes against pac in that fight was wrong.no one said pac got fucked.intresting that every every benefit of doubt went to marquez.same with the second fight which the knockdown made a differnce.
both have real legit hof careers.
pacs overall when both established themselves is better.because pac beat morales and jmm didnt fight him we cant assume maquez would of won.no the same with bareera .nor can we say marquez didnt get thoses fights but pac did because he was the more exciting fighter.
marquez litterly lost almost every round to floyd.i dont remember pac doing that in his heyday.bradleys better fighter the kasidis.pac lookedbetter inthat fight then marquez who was fighting a guy tailor made for him.jmm did have fortune go his way when folks actualy think he won the first fight.we cant talk what ifs after fights are over without giving the other fighter a what if also..what if marquez won on all 3 cards in all the fights would pacs status of greatness change.a more resonable what if pac koed marquez in the first round would we be talking about this since there would of been no fight 2 or 3 or 4.the second fight was close yet folks say marquez got robbed.he got robbed the first fight also they say.of course little are saying pac actualy won thoses fights.no credit given to pac by many just marquez.thats a pretty good one way street.outside of being a pac fan add that to the reason why i want pac to win.

PP as usual you gave a post that you thought out well.i just happen to think otherwise especialy on the what ifs.still i appreciate the thought you put into it to give a point of view.

powerpuncher wrote:JMM was around the same time in the same weight as barrera and morales. he could never get a fight with either of them. he had a very good chance of beating them both which would have automatically boosted his status. just like pacs status was hugely boosted after beating barrera and he got a fight with morales. and the reason that JMM didnt fight all of those people that pac fought is because, as stated before, pac is a more "exciting" fighter so he was pushed towards those fights and hand picked opponents while weight draining them so that he could win and make himself look greater than he was. as i have always stated, there is a reason pac become so dominate when he moved up. its because his style does better against slower fighters without a ton of stamina because his power moves up well with him and so does his speed.

pac had trouble with guys down in weight like JMM who was quick enough to counter him and also morales who was also fast enough to land shots and not let pac jump in and out on him like he did against bigger fighters. JMM fought everybody he could. i guarantee that if JMM was given 10 million dollars to fight cotto at a 144 catchweight that he would do it. and i think that he has a good chance to win (although many people may disagree). JMM also fought mayweather unlike pac.

some fighters just have styles that look pleasing so they are perceived a lot better. i guarantee that mike tyson would destroyed his opponents worse than muhammad ali would have because of styles, but ali would have easily beaten tyson because he is better and his style is all wrong for tyson. thats how i feel with JMM and pac. pac is explosive, so he can look spectacular against fighters and KO them while JMM just goes in there and wins whether or not he looks super impressive.

last point is as ive always said, whoever you had winning their 3 fights, they were all disputed in some sense. so technically, JMM could have won all 3. and if the judges were in his favor, would pac have had his huge "immortal" streak going still? pac and JMM were #1 and #2 p4p and it was only because pac got the close decision in their second fight which is why mayweather fought JMM. so if JMM won their fight, mayweather may have fought pac and IMO would have destroyed him and then this whole pac saga is pretty much gone. so mainly, he is an all time great but he had some fortune come his way that JMM has never gotten.

Wow, I expected to see a response that I totally disagreed with but you are on point pretty much the whole time here. I disagree with the Pac draining fighters but I am a Pac fan and can clearly admit it might affect my judgement. I think Oscar may have been drained but he was coming down 3 lbs vs Pac going up 12 lbs after just going up 5 lbs. I don't think Cotto having to lose 1 extra lb affected him majorly and Margarito was a career welter so 150 shouldn't have affected him.

I agree JMM never got the MAB or Morales chance he wanted in their primes. I also believe Pac got the fights because of his exciting style. I think that Pac is worse against boxers. Cotto isn't a bad boxer but no where near on par with the Floyd and JMM's of the world. The rest of Pac's heavier weight fights were not boxers. I think JMM would've had a good chance against Cotto if he had a strength coach like he did coming up in weight for Pac. Bloated JMM gets beat. I think Floyd and Pac not fighting isn't only on Pac as well as I think it has a solid chance of happening in 2013. It is the last chance for that superfight. Lastly, I agree all three fights are in dispute. I had Pac in the first 2 and scored the 3rd fight a draw once and a JMM 7-5 victory once. I don't think Floyd would've fought Pac even with him hypothetically losing to JMM in the 2nd fight. Floyd sees a fast and powerful southpaw in Pac. I see Floyd winning and relatively easily but that is the worst possible matchup for him in anyone his size or smaller. Floyd would outbox any boxers and easily tames right handed punchers but southpaw with tremendous speed has to be a concern. Manny's technique and timing have to be sharp but he can take some rounds off Floyd.

powerpuncher wrote:why would you hope for pac to beat JMM? JMM has gotten robbed 3 times (well the 2nd fight wasnt a robbery. it was the only fight though that i could see it going either way) and he has gotten the shaft his entire career.

pac become #1 p4p because the judges gave him the decision in their second fight which made mayweather fight JMM and then created a ton of hype for a mayweather-pac fight. if mayweather came back and fought pac instead of JMM, mayweather would have TKO'd him. JMM has worked hard to get where he is and has been disrespected a ton. he is a true old school fighter that has gone through everybody and hasnt gotten to hand pick opponents like mayweather or pac.

i really hope that JMM can KO pac and solidify who the better of the 2 are. JMM and pac are very close in all time greatness. pac just had a style to make him more popular and has gotten a lot more publicity. if JMM got what pac got, he would also be considered unstoppable since his only real loss (in my opinion) for years is against mayweather.

See I have scored all three fights for Pac. A lot of people have. No close fight should ever be called a robbery.

powerpuncher wrote:JMM was around the same time in the same weight as barrera and morales. he could never get a fight with either of them. he had a very good chance of beating them both which would have automatically boosted his status. just like pacs status was hugely boosted after beating barrera and he got a fight with morales. and the reason that JMM didnt fight all of those people that pac fought is because, as stated before, pac is a more "exciting" fighter so he was pushed towards those fights and hand picked opponents while weight draining them so that he could win and make himself look greater than he was. as i have always stated, there is a reason pac become so dominate when he moved up. its because his style does better against slower fighters without a ton of stamina because his power moves up well with him and so does his speed.

pac had trouble with guys down in weight like JMM who was quick enough to counter him and also morales who was also fast enough to land shots and not let pac jump in and out on him like he did against bigger fighters. JMM fought everybody he could. i guarantee that if JMM was given 10 million dollars to fight cotto at a 144 catchweight that he would do it. and i think that he has a good chance to win (although many people may disagree). JMM also fought mayweather unlike pac.

some fighters just have styles that look pleasing so they are perceived a lot better. i guarantee that mike tyson would destroyed his opponents worse than muhammad ali would have because of styles, but ali would have easily beaten tyson because he is better and his style is all wrong for tyson. thats how i feel with JMM and pac. pac is explosive, so he can look spectacular against fighters and KO them while JMM just goes in there and wins whether or not he looks super impressive.

last point is as ive always said, whoever you had winning their 3 fights, they were all disputed in some sense. so technically, JMM could have won all 3. and if the judges were in his favor, would pac have had his huge "immortal" streak going still? pac and JMM were #1 and #2 p4p and it was only because pac got the close decision in their second fight which is why mayweather fought JMM. so if JMM won their fight, mayweather may have fought pac and IMO would have destroyed him and then this whole pac saga is pretty much gone. so mainly, he is an all time great but he had some fortune come his way that JMM has never gotten.

LOL it seems odd to me to have that statement coming off the biggest robbery I have ever seen in boxing. I am not criticizing that statement because in a lot of ways I agree I just thought it was funny.

dmar5143 wrote:ubegs some good points.why root against jmm.if someones a pac fan that should anser the question.why root against pac.same anser..jmm did not win all 3 fights.ilove how scoring becomes automatic.a guy scores a knockdown and its a 10-8.thats a 2 point swing.he scores 2 more knockdowns and judges say hey thats a 10-6 round.why are the other knockdowns only a one point thing..heavenforbid if someone scored that round 10-5.a 3 point win for pac is about correct in the first fight.i scored the firsttwo fights round by round exactly like letterman.the first round i was leaning towards a 10-5...i find it strange that no one says that the vote or votes against pac in that fight was wrong.no one said pac got fucked.intresting that every every benefit of doubt went to marquez.same with the second fight which the knockdown made a differnce.
both have real legit hof careers.
pacs overall when both established themselves is better.because pac beat morales and jmm didnt fight him we cant assume maquez would of won.no the same with bareera .nor can we say marquez didnt get thoses fights but pac did because he was the more exciting fighter.
marquez litterly lost almost every round to floyd.i dont remember pac doing that in his heyday.bradleys better fighter the kasidis.pac lookedbetter inthat fight then marquez who was fighting a guy tailor made for him.jmm did have fortune go his way when folks actualy think he won the first fight.we cant talk what ifs after fights are over without giving the other fighter a what if also..what if marquez won on all 3 cards in all the fights would pacs status of greatness change.a more resonable what if pac koed marquez in the first round would we be talking about this since there would of been no fight 2 or 3 or 4.the second fight was close yet folks say marquez got robbed.he got robbed the first fight also they say.of course little are saying pac actualy won thoses fights.no credit given to pac by many just marquez.thats a pretty good one way street.outside of being a pac fan add that to the reason why i want pac to win.

first off, thanks for understanding my point at least and appreciating my reasoning even if you disagree. although im going to have to respectably disagree with you.

first off, boxing is just scored on a 10 point must system with a KD making it a 10-8 and every KD after that losing 1 more point per KD. i dont know why that is, that is just the way it is though. if it werent, certain fights would be scored differently. so unless they change the system, the first round of their first fight was and should have been a 10-6.

so with that scoring in mind, i would say that JMM definitely outboxed pac in the fight because with that big of a lead in the first, there should have been no dispute. i had JMM winning just about every round from 3 and on. i thought that it was a boxing lesson. to a lesser extent, its like saying that chavez should have beaten martinez because of the last KD. just because somebody scores 3 KDs in one round doesnt mean they deserve to win. i scored it round by round (just like you) and in that sense, JMM won just about all of them which means he should have won the fight. i have already stated that i believed that the second fight was the only one that i didnt think was a bad decision because i only had JMM winning by 1 point and there were definitely swing rounds.

im not saying that we can assume that JMM would beat morales, im saying that just because he never got the opportunity, we cant hold it against him. and pac never lost a fight as bad as JMM got beat by mayweather because he never fought mayweather. im confident that mayweather would have beaten pac worse and probably won by TKO. obviously we will never know but because of styles and size difference, i cant see pac winning.

pac didnt look that great against bradley. he won but bradley IMO is vastly overrated anyways. JMM just brawled with katsidis instead of counter punching which is why he didnt look as dominating but a win is a win and the result was never in doubt because JMM never really had any trouble with him.

and your what ifs are just made up what ifs. you cant compare a what if KO to a what if the judges were good. so in your example, you are saying that its more reasonable to say what if lara KO'd williams rather than what if the judges actually let the right fighter win? that makes no sense. JMM didnt get KO'd because he used his boxing ability to avoid it. he couldnt use his ability to make the judges choose him to win.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:JMM was around the same time in the same weight as barrera and morales. he could never get a fight with either of them. he had a very good chance of beating them both which would have automatically boosted his status. just like pacs status was hugely boosted after beating barrera and he got a fight with morales. and the reason that JMM didnt fight all of those people that pac fought is because, as stated before, pac is a more "exciting" fighter so he was pushed towards those fights and hand picked opponents while weight draining them so that he could win and make himself look greater than he was. as i have always stated, there is a reason pac become so dominate when he moved up. its because his style does better against slower fighters without a ton of stamina because his power moves up well with him and so does his speed.

pac had trouble with guys down in weight like JMM who was quick enough to counter him and also morales who was also fast enough to land shots and not let pac jump in and out on him like he did against bigger fighters. JMM fought everybody he could. i guarantee that if JMM was given 10 million dollars to fight cotto at a 144 catchweight that he would do it. and i think that he has a good chance to win (although many people may disagree). JMM also fought mayweather unlike pac.

some fighters just have styles that look pleasing so they are perceived a lot better. i guarantee that mike tyson would destroyed his opponents worse than muhammad ali would have because of styles, but ali would have easily beaten tyson because he is better and his style is all wrong for tyson. thats how i feel with JMM and pac. pac is explosive, so he can look spectacular against fighters and KO them while JMM just goes in there and wins whether or not he looks super impressive.

last point is as ive always said, whoever you had winning their 3 fights, they were all disputed in some sense. so technically, JMM could have won all 3. and if the judges were in his favor, would pac have had his huge "immortal" streak going still? pac and JMM were #1 and #2 p4p and it was only because pac got the close decision in their second fight which is why mayweather fought JMM. so if JMM won their fight, mayweather may have fought pac and IMO would have destroyed him and then this whole pac saga is pretty much gone. so mainly, he is an all time great but he had some fortune come his way that JMM has never gotten.

Wow, I expected to see a response that I totally disagreed with but you are on point pretty much the whole time here. I disagree with the Pac draining fighters but I am a Pac fan and can clearly admit it might affect my judgement. I think Oscar may have been drained but he was coming down 3 lbs vs Pac going up 12 lbs after just going up 5 lbs. I don't think Cotto having to lose 1 extra lb affected him majorly and Margarito was a career welter so 150 shouldn't have affected him.

I agree JMM never got the MAB or Morales chance he wanted in their primes. I also believe Pac got the fights because of his exciting style. I think that Pac is worse against boxers. Cotto isn't a bad boxer but no where near on par with the Floyd and JMM's of the world. The rest of Pac's heavier weight fights were not boxers. I think JMM would've had a good chance against Cotto if he had a strength coach like he did coming up in weight for Pac. Bloated JMM gets beat. I think Floyd and Pac not fighting isn't only on Pac as well as I think it has a solid chance of happening in 2013. It is the last chance for that superfight. Lastly, I agree all three fights are in dispute. I had Pac in the first 2 and scored the 3rd fight a draw once and a JMM 7-5 victory once. I don't think Floyd would've fought Pac even with him hypothetically losing to JMM in the 2nd fight. Floyd sees a fast and powerful southpaw in Pac. I see Floyd winning and relatively easily but that is the worst possible matchup for him in anyone his size or smaller. Floyd would outbox any boxers and easily tames right handed punchers but southpaw with tremendous speed has to be a concern. Manny's technique and timing have to be sharp but he can take some rounds off Floyd.

thats the first time anybody i have argued against has ever said that my argument is on point. haha.

Soonermark890 wrote:

powerpuncher wrote:JMM was around the same time in the same weight as barrera and morales. he could never get a fight with either of them. he had a very good chance of beating them both which would have automatically boosted his status. just like pacs status was hugely boosted after beating barrera and he got a fight with morales. and the reason that JMM didnt fight all of those people that pac fought is because, as stated before, pac is a more "exciting" fighter so he was pushed towards those fights and hand picked opponents while weight draining them so that he could win and make himself look greater than he was. as i have always stated, there is a reason pac become so dominate when he moved up. its because his style does better against slower fighters without a ton of stamina because his power moves up well with him and so does his speed.

pac had trouble with guys down in weight like JMM who was quick enough to counter him and also morales who was also fast enough to land shots and not let pac jump in and out on him like he did against bigger fighters. JMM fought everybody he could. i guarantee that if JMM was given 10 million dollars to fight cotto at a 144 catchweight that he would do it. and i think that he has a good chance to win (although many people may disagree). JMM also fought mayweather unlike pac.

some fighters just have styles that look pleasing so they are perceived a lot better. i guarantee that mike tyson would destroyed his opponents worse than muhammad ali would have because of styles, but ali would have easily beaten tyson because he is better and his style is all wrong for tyson. thats how i feel with JMM and pac. pac is explosive, so he can look spectacular against fighters and KO them while JMM just goes in there and wins whether or not he looks super impressive.

last point is as ive always said, whoever you had winning their 3 fights, they were all disputed in some sense. so technically, JMM could have won all 3. and if the judges were in his favor, would pac have had his huge "immortal" streak going still? pac and JMM were #1 and #2 p4p and it was only because pac got the close decision in their second fight which is why mayweather fought JMM. so if JMM won their fight, mayweather may have fought pac and IMO would have destroyed him and then this whole pac saga is pretty much gone. so mainly, he is an all time great but he had some fortune come his way that JMM has never gotten.

LOL it seems odd to me to have that statement coming off the biggest robbery I have ever seen in boxing. I am not criticizing that statement because in a lot of ways I agree I just thought it was funny.

i thought that decision was weird although im 99% sure it was a way to try to make bradley the next star which didnt happen.

powerpuncher wrote:thats the first time anybody i have argued against has ever said that my argument is on point. haha.

I like to say that I debate not argue. In my head, the difference is arguing is just 2 sides dug into their beliefs without offering too many facts and never conceding anything. If you debate, the 2 sides bring points based on facts and then counterpoints are presented. If these counterpoints are factual, I hopefully give the person credit. If they are not, I will continue to shove my points down your throat.

These rules may not apply to my defense of BHop, Pac, Devon Alexander, Notre Dame football, Miami Hurricane football, Oakland Raiders, Miami Heat especially Lebron James, and MY Kentucky Wildcats.

did manny not want to KO jmm the last 3 times? ive always found that to be a ridiculous statement by fighters. no shit you want the KO!!! lol easier said than done in most cases, manny would have to kill marquez to get him to stay down in this fight, so i dont see that happening. i am beyond sick of bob arums antics with manny. enough with the catchweight nonsense, he should be fighting cotto at 154 in december, thats a fight people want to see. marquez 4 does nothing to enhance his legacy. id even prefer bradley 2 over this fight. i have watched everyone of mannys fights for as long as i can remember, and i really dont think i will tune into this one. if i want to see manny jmm ill watch 1 or 2, not the diminished versions fighting for a pointless payday. call me crazy