Two fights that were never made.

(1)Sonny Liston vs. Joe Frazier: Liston went crazy when he heard about the chance to fight Frazier. "Please, oh please give me this fight. He's made for me." Yank Durham (Frazier's manager) was too smart and Sonny was unlucky once again. However, if the fight had been made, what would've been the outcome?

Joe Frazier is a great fighter. His main talents are his pain threshold, speed, punching power and a seemingly indominable spirit. What are Sonny's talents? Let's just say he took out a man's front row of teeth with a jab. POWER was his fight and his fight was very POWERFUL.

Does a confident Sonny Liston take out a Joe Frazier who only knows how to come forward? Some would say that Liston had seen his best days. Others would say that all Joe had to do was survive the first 2 rounds and go on to victory.

Do your own research on this. What do I think? Well, it might be a sad thought, however how does "Sonny Liston vs. Muhammad Ali III" sound? No way in hell a style like Joe's can defeat Sonny Liston. Sonny's just too damn strong for a fighter to absorb two of his punches to land one. Boxing would've been a helluva lot different in 1971 if this fight (Frazier - Liston) had taken place.

Conclusion: Joe Frazier was young enough to come out of a KO loss to Liston and still have a very promsing future. Remember, it was Joe, George and Ali who owned the HW division in the 70s. The rivalry with Ali still happens but is less dramatic for obvious reasons.

(2) Joe Louis fought Billy Conn in 1941. The fight was an epic battle with Conn dominating the action with his boxing skills from rounds 1 to 11. Louis was badly swelled, and unable to mount any meaningful offense. Then came the 12th round. Conn stepped up his attack to one of aggression and seemed to have Joe on the way out. Of course this choice was less than intelligent and Louis put him away in the 13th.

Folllowing the fight, it was thought that if Conn had just stayed away, he would've easily been the HW champion of the world. Superfight II was in the works, and then came World War II. By the time both figthers served their time overseas, they came back with much less then they had on that magicical night that has proven to be immortal in the eyes of the sport. Joe easliy put a washed up Conn away in 8 rounds (I think it was 8) and went on to retire himself soon after.

Question: What wold've happened had they fought the 2nd fight before WWII? Would we have a repeat of the first fight with Conn staying away in the later rounds to perserve a decision win? I really don't think so. Louis had a mind like a steel trap. In this case, it would've been similar to a fly trap. I feel strongly that Joe was a genius ring general in his own way. He was beaten by Jersey Joe Walcott (Louis got the decision) , yet figured Walcott out in their 2nd fight and took him out with a barrage of punches around the 8th or 9th rounds.

Conclusion: A statement Joe Louis never made but should have. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, and you have me confused with somebody else."

frank liston if that fight happened with frazier would of been beaton..liston was done.he was in his day a very good fighter but overated as a puncher.his leverage was always poor .liston may of thought frazier was tailor made for him but in reality liston didnt realize he was on his way out and joe had arrived.at this stage liston was more tailor made for joe...

dmar5143 wrote:frank liston if that fight happened with frazier would of been beaton..liston was done.he was in his day a very good fighter but overated as a puncher.his leverage was always poor .liston may of thought frazier was tailor made for him but in reality liston didnt realize he was on his way out and joe had arrived.at this stage liston was more tailor made for joe...

Dmar, I put that opinion in the thread along with my own thoughts. What do you think of the Louis - Conn rematch if it happened before WWII?

louis by ko inside 8..

maybe you could debate on who would win in their primes, but by that time, liston was on his way out. i mean, liston would have won if they fought in like 66' or so because frazier would have been very green as a pro. but if we are talking about frazier when he had won the title, then frazier KO's him. liston wasnt like foreman. he may have been strong but he wasnt that overpowering.

louis would have won the rematch with conn regardless. conn is a great fighter but he just fought the perfect fight and made a mistake and lost. conn wouldnt have been able to stay away like he did in the first fight.

Considering Liston, power is the last thing to go on a fighter. Also, he probably had one fight left. If you checked out the fights he fought following his losses to Ali, he really didn't look that bad. His downfall was the phantom punch. After that he was written off. Sonny was an easy guy to forget about because nobody much liked him anyway. However, I still put my money on Sonny against Joe Frazier. No doubt, Frazier is a better fighter, but styles make fights. Also, remember this fight would've taken place around 1968 or 69.

When Angelo Dundee was asked about the abilities of Sonny Liston he stated the following; "The only guy that could lick him, did lick him."

Also, ranking Foreman above Liston is perfectly reasonable, but don't tell that to George. As a younger fighter, he based his identity on his brief relationship with Sonny Liston.

Sonny was rather unfortunate in his boxing career. He met an Ali that had the exact style that could make him rather helpless and it did just that. Also, considering that George Chuvalo thinks that was Ali's best night (and I think that's a good opinion.) makes me think that if Sonny didn't have bad luck, he would've had no luck at all.

Let's just say that when Yank Durham refused the fight, it was a damn smart move. That's my take. Ken Norton's manager, Bob Biron, had no such sense. He put poor Kenny in with a prime George Foreman and a determined Earnie Shavers.