FIGHTERS WHO BLEW THE BIG FIGHTS

im my mind these are some fighters who blew most of or all of there realy big fights.yes in there career all of them did have some wins of note that kept them in the runing but the realy big fight the fights that could of defined there career in a far better light they lost..1. oscar delahoya.oscar yes won fights of note many of them but the realy big fights in oscars career he lost them all.some where close but a loss.mayweather.here fans felt either one can win and its oscars last fight in his heyday.he lost a close fight.he blew a possible win by not using his jab to get in the last 5-6 rounds .how would we look at oscar if he had won and floyd if he lost..hopkins.oscar was doing ok then a liver shot does him in.outside that bo hop fought smart that night oscar did not.pac.yes drained overtrained and washed up but non the less a extra huge fight.trinidad.oscar said felix wasnt worthy of a seven million dollar payday.close but no cigar again..ditto with 2 fights with mosley.oscar complained and shane offered a third fight.oscar said no and admitted he could not win that fight.
ernie shavers.he came of the national sceen with a fantastic 1 round ko of jimmy ellis.his next big fight the fight that could of established ernie with a slugfest with foreman ernie gets blown out in one round by quarry.working his way back into the mix theres a crossroad fight with lyle.ernie again gets blown out.he meets holmes in a 12 rounder and gets shutout.he then works his way back with a ali fight and losses..he meets holmes again and shavers almost broke the big fight blues and should of koed larry but he rns out of gas and gets koed himself..with that fighgt ernie established himself as a force but on the way hopefully to a title shot he gets blown out by mercado.
jerry quarry.jerry had some big wins but the crossroad fights he gets beat..he gets koed by chuvalo when he seems to be on the move upward.he losses a close fight for the tourney title to jimmy ellis.he gets the first fight against ali in a comback.on the top of his game jerry losses.he gets blown out twice by frazier losses to ali again and gets koed by norton in a fight that jerry could of restabliished himself.
george chuvalo.the patterson and bonovena fights recieved a ton of interest and publicity.george losses both.he gets beat in a title bout by ernie terrell for ernies trinket.ali twice foreman frazier also.

What about Tommy Hearns? One of the greatest (if not "THE" greatest")offenses I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing. A piston, whip, lightening fast jab that backed opponents up, a right hand that landed like the hammer of Thor, ability to box and put a man out at any time during a fight, etc.

However, Tommy failed during his biggest fights. The Sept. 15th 1981 fight against Sugar Ray Leonard may have been the greatest welterweight battle I ever saw, though in the end, the biggest fight of the 80s ended with Tommy going through the ropes and Leonard becoming the undisputed WW champion of the world.

Skip to April 15th, 1985 and we see a seemingly unbeatable Tommy Hearns take on Marvin Hagler for Hagler's undisputed Middleweight Championship. In a fight that some say was the best they ever saw, these two fought a 15 round fight inside of 3 rounds. When the smoke cleared, Hearns head was clouded while he crash landed on the floor in the 3rd round, courtesy of Hagler's relentless attack. He bravely made it up at 9, however he leaned forward and fell into the arms of referee Richard Steele.

I personally do not define Tommy by these fights. Sure, he had an inability to take a big punch by the best of his day, however I noticed that Hagler never allowed a rematch. Leonard did (smile). I'm not going to get into who won Leonard - Hearns II. However, my advice is to watch that fight and at the conclusion, try and guess if Ray would've signed for that fight knowing what he was in for.

Sports Illustrated once ran a very interesting story. They went over the Hagler, Leonard fights vs Hearns. Sure, Hagler and Leonard won both of these fights (In Leonard's case, we're speaking of the first fight.) Nevertheless, both Hagler and Leonard spent more time in the hospital than Hearns. In other words, it was wise to fight Tommy once and leave well enough alone.

Just for the sake of argument, I don't believe Hearns would've ever beaten Marvin Hagler, though I do believe Hagler would've had another great contest on his hands. Personally, if I was in Marvin's shoes, I would've opted to refuse a Hearns rematch.

frank myself i would not put hearns on that list.yes the 2 big fights you mentioned tommy lost but he also won big time fights.the duran blowout the leanord return despite the scorecards and the benitz fight which gave bentiz his second loss after 45 fights.for tommy and not the fans perhaps the virgil hill fight was a big one.he gave hill his first loss and tommy a claim on a lh title.the chevas fight was for all the marbles and drew big attention by the fans but ill call that a fight of note.

dmar5143 wrote:frank myself i would not put hearns on that list.yes the 2 big fights you mentioned tommy lost but he also won big time fights.the duran blowout the leanord return despite the scorecards and the benitz fight which gave bentiz his second loss after 45 fights.for tommy and not the fans perhaps the virgil hill fight was a big one.he gave hill his first loss and tommy a claim on a lh title.the chevas fight was for all the marbles and drew big attention by the fans but ill call that a fight of note.

I understand your argument, and for years and I was arguing the same thing myself. What about the Duran fight (Tommy KO2 Duran) or the Benitez fight (Tommy W15 Benitez).

Tommy did enough to become an all time great, however I pointed these fights out for the following reason. The term Super fight had a different definition during the 80s and other eras in boxing. The 80s had HOF champs in almost every division. A major PPV event today would have trouble qualifying as a "Wide World of Sports" weekend event. A super fight used to mean that the world stopped to watch two fighters engage in a contest that nobody really had a clue on who would win. Sure, there were the those who bet on these fights (I was one of them, putting money on Tommy in his fight against Hagler. Last wager I ever made in the absence of a Foreman - Tyson fight) but the smartest thing to do during a real Super Fight was to just pay your PPV money at the local closed circuit arena and watch the fight.

A super fight used to be bigger than the Super Bowl and there was more on the line. Sure, Hearns defeated Duran, Benitez, Cuevas and other great fighters. However, when the world stopped to watch him fight, he came up short. In the past, you could almost define a Super Fight as one where those who knew little of the sport of boxing became captivated to watch it. My mother hated boxing, however she was interested in what a Super Fight used to be.

The pressure of these fights had to be a nightmare for these fighters, however I can present an argument that the fighter that can handle the pressure of a Super Fight stands more of a chance of winning. Sort of what we call a clutch athlete.

It's hard to compare eras of boxing for reasons I believe I already stated. Mannny Pac and Mayweather have people entranced over a fight that, in the 80s, would've been a big fight, but nothing that had the potential to define the era. If a boxing historian has his ideology formed by this era in boxing, he could easily see Hearns as one of the kings of the Super Fights. I'm came up in a different era.

Yesterday, a super fight didn't mean you were fighting a great fighter. It meant you were fighting the man thought to be the greatest fighter in the world.

frank nice points.i like the term super fight.but thats differnt then a big fight i feel its the ultimate big fight.

Frank wrote:What about Tommy Hearns? One of the greatest (if not "THE" greatest")offenses I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing. A piston, whip, lightening fast jab that backed opponents up, a right hand that landed like the hammer of Thor, ability to box and put a man out at any time during a fight, etc.

However, Tommy failed during his biggest fights. The Sept. 15th 1981 fight against Sugar Ray Leonard may have been the greatest welterweight battle I ever saw, though in the end, the biggest fight of the 80s ended with Tommy going through the ropes and Leonard becoming the undisputed WW champion of the world.

Skip to April 15th, 1985 and we see a seemingly unbeatable Tommy Hearns take on Marvin Hagler for Hagler's undisputed Middleweight Championship. In a fight that some say was the best they ever saw, these two fought a 15 round fight inside of 3 rounds. When the smoke cleared, Hearns head was clouded while he crash landed on the floor in the 3rd round, courtesy of Hagler's relentless attack. He bravely made it up at 9, however he leaned forward and fell into the arms of referee Richard Steele.

I personally do not define Tommy by these fights. Sure, he had an inability to take a big punch by the best of his day, however I noticed that Hagler never allowed a rematch. Leonard did (smile). I'm not going to get into who won Leonard - Hearns II. However, my advice is to watch that fight and at the conclusion, try and guess if Ray would've signed for that fight knowing what he was in for.

Sports Illustrated once ran a very interesting story. They went over the Hagler, Leonard fights vs Hearns. Sure, Hagler and Leonard won both of these fights (In Leonard's case, we're speaking of the first fight.) Nevertheless, both Hagler and Leonard spent more time in the hospital than Hearns. In other words, it was wise to fight Tommy once and leave well enough alone.

Just for the sake of argument, I don't believe Hearns would've ever beaten Marvin Hagler, though I do believe Hagler would've had another great contest on his hands. Personally, if I was in Marvin's shoes, I would've opted to refuse a Hearns rematch.

Actually, Hagler vs Hearns II was alread in he works for Marvin when judge Jo Jo Guerra opted to take a nap during Haglers fight with Leonard instead of watching the fight and scoring it and robbed us of that one. Marvin wanted Hearns for the record defense. He never talked publically about it that much, but Monzons mark was the reason Marvin hung around the last couple years. (and the fact that he made more in his final two years than the rest of his career combined).

Also, as was mentioned below. Hearns wins over Benitez, Duran, and Cuevas were more impressive than anything a modern welter has accompished. By FAR.

To add a not-at-all great but still relevant to me example, how about Kirk Johnson? Guy with serious talent and no discipline who totally blew his big shot. Had a fight for the heavyweight title against Vitali, came in fat and got KO'd early. Always a huge disapointment for me.

Juan Manuel Marquez, lost to the best fighters he faced.

Lost to Chris John.
Lost twice to Pac and a draw
Lost to Floyd

I thought he won most of those fights, but the record book says 0 wins, 1 draw, and 4 losses.

captainanddew wrote:Juan Manuel Marquez, lost to the best fighters he faced.

Lost to Chris John.
Lost twice to Pac and a draw
Lost to Floyd

I thought he won most of those fights, but the record book says 0 wins, 1 draw, and 4 losses.

and thats the problem. you could make an argument that he is 4-1 in those fights. he shouldnt be what he is at. i think that its more he has gotten the short end of the stick his entire career.

boxinglawyer wrote:

Frank wrote:What about Tommy Hearns? One of the greatest (if not "THE" greatest")offenses I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing. A piston, whip, lightening fast jab that backed opponents up, a right hand that landed like the hammer of Thor, ability to box and put a man out at any time during a fight, etc.

However, Tommy failed during his biggest fights. The Sept. 15th 1981 fight against Sugar Ray Leonard may have been the greatest welterweight battle I ever saw, though in the end, the biggest fight of the 80s ended with Tommy going through the ropes and Leonard becoming the undisputed WW champion of the world.

Skip to April 15th, 1985 and we see a seemingly unbeatable Tommy Hearns take on Marvin Hagler for Hagler's undisputed Middleweight Championship. In a fight that some say was the best they ever saw, these two fought a 15 round fight inside of 3 rounds. When the smoke cleared, Hearns head was clouded while he crash landed on the floor in the 3rd round, courtesy of Hagler's relentless attack. He bravely made it up at 9, however he leaned forward and fell into the arms of referee Richard Steele.

I personally do not define Tommy by these fights. Sure, he had an inability to take a big punch by the best of his day, however I noticed that Hagler never allowed a rematch. Leonard did (smile). I'm not going to get into who won Leonard - Hearns II. However, my advice is to watch that fight and at the conclusion, try and guess if Ray would've signed for that fight knowing what he was in for.

Sports Illustrated once ran a very interesting story. They went over the Hagler, Leonard fights vs Hearns. Sure, Hagler and Leonard won both of these fights (In Leonard's case, we're speaking of the first fight.) Nevertheless, both Hagler and Leonard spent more time in the hospital than Hearns. In other words, it was wise to fight Tommy once and leave well enough alone.

Just for the sake of argument, I don't believe Hearns would've ever beaten Marvin Hagler, though I do believe Hagler would've had another great contest on his hands. Personally, if I was in Marvin's shoes, I would've opted to refuse a Hearns rematch.

Actually, Hagler vs Hearns II was alread in he works for Marvin when judge Jo Jo Guerra opted to take a nap during Haglers fight with Leonard instead of watching the fight and scoring it and robbed us of that one. Marvin wanted Hearns for the record defense. He never talked publically about it that much, but Monzons mark was the reason Marvin hung around the last couple years. (and the fact that he made more in his final two years than the rest of his career combined).

Also, as was mentioned below. Hearns wins over Benitez, Duran, and Cuevas were more impressive than anything a modern welter has accompished. By FAR.

BL, I think you're a personal friend of Hagler. Next time you go visit him in Italy, lemme know. I hear they're some really beautiful women there. LOL

i didnt know that hagler and hearns were in agreement to fight next.that fight indeed deserved a rematch.hagler also wanted a rematch with leanord so did the public.ray said no.the only way he said ill give hagler a return is if he publicaly states he lost our fight.ever since then i hated ray for his arrogance.he wanted marvin to be publicaly humiliated by saying that dispite the evidence that there was a strong arguement that maybe just maybe marvin won the close fight or at least deserved a draw.
rays arrogance also included that he felt with no doubt he won the hearns rematch and it took years for ray to admit tommy realy beat me.
to stroke that ego and arragance further instead of a hagler or hearns rematch for his next fight they fight a piece of crap called donny lalonde the worst lighheavy trinket holder ever to fight at catchweight of 168 for the lh title and created i believe a new division the 168 pound class.now if you wanted a 168 pound division what better or deserving fight is there then either marvin or tommy.

Dmar, can't we write some of Ray's arrogance off to the effect of drugs and leave it at that. This was one great fighter.

Frank wrote:Dmar, can't we write some of Ray's arrogance off to the effect of drugs and leave it at that. This was one great fighter.

...frank nope.ill agree that ray was a great one..acording to ray he started using drugs after he retired with the eye surgery but quit them in early 1986 well before the hagler and hearns second fight.he used coke for about a 2 year period or so and was clean a long while before thoses fights.it was arragance not the effects or aftershock of drugs.i guess we can disagree on that point.

dmar5143 wrote:

Frank wrote:Dmar, can't we write some of Ray's arrogance off to the effect of drugs and leave it at that. This was one great fighter.

...frank nope.ill agree that ray was a great one..acording to ray he started using drugs after he retired with the eye surgery but quit them in early 1986 well before the hagler and hearns second fight.he used coke for about a 2 year period or so and was clean a long while before thoses fights.it was arragance not the effects or aftershock of drugs.i guess we can disagree on that point.

Leonard was also rumored by some close to him to have been on steroids for his last career run, including the Hagler fight. He had some sudden behavioral changes that could be explained by rid rage. (Like the way he went after Michael Nunn in the Mirage Casino)

Oscar has to be mentioned:

Tito, the first and second Mosley fight, B-Hop, Floyd, and Manny, were all big moments that Oscar failed at.

Now we have to factor in the fact that I thought he won the Tito fight, and he did have some big victories(against some past prime opponents), he was robbed in fights(Shane 2), and he benefited from some decisions(Whitaker, Sturm, and some might say Quartey).

But whether he won or lost, for the most part, Oscar didn't look his best in a lot of his big fights....

hillsicc303 wrote:Oscar has to be mentioned:

Tito, the first and second Mosley fight, B-Hop, Floyd, and Manny, were all big moments that Oscar failed at.

Now we have to factor in the fact that I thought he won the Tito fight, and he did have some big victories(against some past prime opponents), he was robbed in fights(Shane 2), and he benefited from some decisions(Whitaker, Sturm, and some might say Quartey).

But whether he won or lost, for the most part, Oscar didn't look his best in a lot of his big fights....

the weirdest thing about him is that most of his big fights were ended in a controversial decision. if he won, he should have lost, and if he lost, he should have won. its not true for all of his big fights but he has definitely been on the controversial side of both ends.

boxinglawyer wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

Frank wrote:Dmar, can't we write some of Ray's arrogance off to the effect of drugs and leave it at that. This was one great fighter.

...frank nope.ill agree that ray was a great one..acording to ray he started using drugs after he retired with the eye surgery but quit them in early 1986 well before the hagler and hearns second fight.he used coke for about a 2 year period or so and was clean a long while before thoses fights.it was arragance not the effects or aftershock of drugs.i guess we can disagree on that point.

Leonard was also rumored by some close to him to have been on steroids for his last career run, including the Hagler fight. He had some sudden behavioral changes that could be explained by rid rage. (Like the way he went after Michael Nunn in the Mirage Casino)

Yeah, I heard about the Nunn incident but I have no details.

Just for the record, I have some really good sources that tell me it's impossible to compete in professional sports these days without PEDs. Look at how athletes have grown bigger and faster in the NFL and the NBA. This change is probably over the course of about 30 years. Sorry guys, but that's not the way evolution works.

Frank wrote:

boxinglawyer wrote:

dmar5143 wrote:

Frank wrote:Dmar, can't we write some of Ray's arrogance off to the effect of drugs and leave it at that. This was one great fighter.

...frank nope.ill agree that ray was a great one..acording to ray he started using drugs after he retired with the eye surgery but quit them in early 1986 well before the hagler and hearns second fight.he used coke for about a 2 year period or so and was clean a long while before thoses fights.it was arragance not the effects or aftershock of drugs.i guess we can disagree on that point.

Leonard was also rumored by some close to him to have been on steroids for his last career run, including the Hagler fight. He had some sudden behavioral changes that could be explained by rid rage. (Like the way he went after Michael Nunn in the Mirage Casino)

Yeah, I heard about the Nunn incident but I have no details.

Just for the record, I have some really good sources that tell me it's impossible to compete in professional sports these days without PEDs. Look at how athletes have grown bigger and faster in the NFL and the NBA. This change is probably over the course of about 30 years. Sorry guys, but that's not the way evolution works.

Nunn was in the Casino with an entourage a few days after his KO of Sumu Kalambay. The fight was still the buzz of the boxing world and Nunn was considered a real super-star in the making. Ray was in the casino and went over to say "hey" and got offended pretty quickly when Nunn pretty much ignored him. He got in Nunns face and said he would "ruin" his career and Nunn actually laughed out loud at him. Ray went after him but cooler heads seperated them and Ray was literally screaming at Nunn as he was being dragged away. Quit a sight. I forget who made mention of it in the Ring Magazine, but they gave a very brief run-down of it when discussing possible guys for Nunn to fight in the future.
One of rays close friends in the announcing business who is also a good friend of mine, told me he is 100% sure Ray was juicing for Hagler, for Lalonde, and Hearns II. I have always thought so myself, but with no proof, I dont post that stuff just anywhere.

amazing.if true it shows where rays confidence level realy was..

Zab and James Toney. The way Zab lost to Tszyu was bad and he's come up short ever since, and Toney never fully recovered after losing to Roy.

Foreman has to be there too. He should've beaten Ali. He had a helluva career anyways but imagine if he'd won.

Gumby wrote:Zab and James Toney. The way Zab lost to Tszyu was bad and he's come up short ever since, and Toney never fully recovered after losing to Roy.

Foreman has to be there too. He should've beaten Ali. He had a helluva career anyways but imagine if he'd won.

...gumby george also won several big fights.i would not put him there .

Gumby wrote:Zab and James Toney. The way Zab lost to Tszyu was bad and he's come up short ever since, and Toney never fully recovered after losing to Roy.

Foreman has to be there too. He should've beaten Ali. He had a helluva career anyways but imagine if he'd won.

Toney won some big ones after Roy too, but I agree he was a shell of what he used to be. mainly because he stopped getting into any semblance of shape.

boxinglawyer wrote:

Gumby wrote:Zab and James Toney. The way Zab lost to Tszyu was bad and he's come up short ever since, and Toney never fully recovered after losing to Roy.

Foreman has to be there too. He should've beaten Ali. He had a helluva career anyways but imagine if he'd won.

Toney won some big ones after Roy too, but I agree he was a shell of what he used to be. mainly because he stopped getting into any semblance of shape.

my man, james toney. If only James Toney had BHOP's dedication.