Tell me again how other sports ....

haven't hurt the American Hwt boxers!!!
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/michigan-state-derrick-nix-punches-hole-basket-support-213539943.html

i just spent about 15 minutes on the local sports radio talking about how much the NFL and NBA have hurt the sport today. UFC/MMA dont help, but they dont have anywhere near the impact of the other sports. I watched Germain Gresham and DeMarco Murray work the pads a couple years ago (For those that dont know, they were OU football players that have gone on to great NFL careers), and was impressed. Murray reminded me of Mbulelo Botile the way he made the pads POP when he threw and Gresham is simply an athletic GOD. He makes Wvlad look a little puny.

In the words of the immortal Bruce Lee, "Boards don't hit back."

Frank wrote:In the words of the immortal Bruce Lee, "Boards don't hit back."

..lol very true.neither do the bags thats why there called punching bags.this is a world wide sport.with what a population of 7 or more billion folks.where is the nfl in the rest of the world.

now i feel theres no doubt that the nfl or nba could of produced some good fighters.but the nfl and the nba plus colledge football etc etc has been around forever.there was no major talk about what if etc etc and the reason was boxing had a good selection of good fighters.now its crap so folks use the arguement that its the nfl or nba screwing it up.
look we can go to past history with ed too tall jones a great dallas player tried boxing and after a few fights got his ass kicked by a pug.ditto mark gastineo the great defensive end of the jets.
charlie powell former football player fight into the big time was against mike dejohn.he got koed in 47 seconds and was decked 3 times.i saw that fight.
now is the nfl or nba responsible for the worst middle division ive ever seen.or a mickey mouse light heavy division or a very very thin and mediocre 154 pound division.
boxings interest starts with the very young.that interest has been less.the amatuers of today are not prepaired for the pros but years ago they were tought how to fight to develope a sound funtimental style.today there tought to slap.
interest in youth and love of football or basketball is there a lot with young folks.now if they are atheletic we say dont go into football or basketball become a fighter.very few make the pros in that sport but there abilty gives them colledge scolorships worth 100-200 thousand right of the bat.it prepares then to go out in the professional world and make to start 100-200 thousand dollars a year or more.thats a given without getting punched in the face.
how many heavies make 200 thousand to 500 thousand or a million year in and year out.not many.a young investment banker can do 7 figures a year.how many fighters are making 150 -300 a year in the 50s or late 40s .not many and thats all fighters not just heavies.what pension plan or benefits does boxing provide.
again the nfl nba colledge football basketball have been around forever.just now its so called hurting the sport big time.

dmar5143 wrote:

Frank wrote:In the words of the immortal Bruce Lee, "Boards don't hit back."

..lol very true.neither do the bags thats why there called punching bags.this is a world wide sport.with what a population of 7 or more billion folks.where is the nfl in the rest of the world.

So, other countries don't have players in the NFL, NBA & MLB? Besides, the biggest impact the other sports have is in the US and that's where the hwts are lacking. In case you hadn't noticed.

panther ive noticed.ive noticed that the entire hw division the middle division the 154 pound division the light heavy division the so called 130 pound division is also lacking big time and some others .its world wide not just in the usa.

dmar5143 wrote:panther ive noticed.ive noticed that the entire hw division the middle division the 154 pound division the light heavy division the so called 130 pound division is also lacking big time and some others .its world wide not just in the usa.

Dmar, I'm with you 100 percent on that. Let's list the champs of the lower weight divisions during the 80s. LH: Michael Spinks. / MW: Marvin Hagler / WW: Sugar Ray Leonard: Leonard's competition; Hearns, Duran, and Benitez./ JW: Aaron Pryor/ LW: Alexis Arguello/ Featherweight: Salvador Sanchez/ Bantamweight: Carlos Zarate, Lupe Pintor, Rubin Olivarez. /

Now of course I missed some people but I'm sure the point comes through as clear as day.

dmar5143 wrote:now i feel theres no doubt that the nfl or nba could of produced some good fighters.but the nfl and the nba plus colledge football etc etc has been around forever.there was no major talk about what if etc etc and the reason was boxing had a good selection of good fighters.now its crap so folks use the arguement that its the nfl or nba screwing it up.

NBA and NFL were segregated until the late 50s-60s. Only 30% of players were black in the NFL by the 1970s. Now it's 62%. In the NBA, now 82% of the players are black. In the past not only were few blacks allowed to play these sports, they got paid a hell of a lot less than the white players. Boxing was still the better option for black athletes to make money.

dmar5143 wrote:we can go to past history with ed too tall jones a great dallas player tried boxing and after a few fights got his ass kicked by a pug.ditto mark gastineo the great defensive end of the jets.
charlie powell former football player fight into the big time was against mike dejohn.he got koed in 47 seconds and was decked 3 times.i saw that fight.

That's a weak comparison. None of those guys boxed at an early age and dedicated their lives to the sport. They just did boxing after their other career was over.

grant there were black players early then you state.marion motley was fullback for the browns very early.big daddy lipscomb played for the colts before that time.nigh traint lane etc etc. too tall jones did boxing while his career was still intact i believe.again anser this.how does the nfl nba take away from the middles which sucks.the 154 pounders which sucks.again there are 7 billion folks or more in the world.why does the hw division suck world wide.we cant lay blame to the nfl or nba etc etc.
infact the talent poll of complete fighters today in all divisions is what maybe 15 .there were that many in the past or more in one division..we cant blame that on the nfl nba baseball etc etc.1.interest in boxing has declined greatly in the youth.not every youth plays big time football.or basketball.2.there are many other avenues to make a living then before.example in the forties in the usa colledge grads was 6 percent in the mid forties.6 percent.3.the amatuer program sucks with the kids that do love boxing and got into the game young.before they were tought how to fight how to develope sound tech exersise the funtimentals extremly well.today our amatuer program and others are pathetic.4. the popularity of the sport has decined so much from a main stream sport to a small nitch sport..those are just a few reasons amoung many why boxing talent sucks in most divisions.the reason of blacks are into sports more is bullshit.then using that reasoning why are there not a lot of great white fighters today since there partcipation in sports on a pro level has declined.again where is the great to good solid middleweight division since none of them in reality will play thoses sports in numbers.
theres more to boxing then the pathetic world wide hw division.gone are the fight clubs that developed local talent.gone is the partcipation in a boxing gym since thoses numbers are down big time.why.because interest from all potential fighters in the youth isnt there.this effects all divisions not the nfl or nba.
again you ignore the reasoning of guys that dont go to the pros nor make it..opportunity of a colledge degree on the house where it was almost non existent before.job opprtunities after college which was non existent before since grads were at 6 percent.a better life without getting punched in the face and a good high school 15 or 16 year old athelete knows this.i can go on and on why the decline in boxing overall from 112 to heavies and it aint the nba or nfl.so lets stop burying our head in the sand and blame the nfl or nba.
all the reasons plus more is why boxing has declined aqnd not just the heavies.just a few years ago there where half as many divisions with twice the amount of fighters.whats that tell you.it tells me there no interest in boxing as compared to before.a 147 a 150 a 160 a 126 pounder realizes i can go to colledge.get a schoorship with my grades or finacial help.i can become a dr a lawyer a accountant a busness exec a scientest a compter expert.etc etc why do i want to get punched in the face.there are too many reasonable alternatives to make a career over boxing.thers where are fighters are going.there right in chosing that path..
thoses that go into boxing.ill say thank you but please teach them how to fucking fight.a journey man in the 50s like ralph tiger jones has more talent then the entire 160 pound and 154 pound divsion with the exception maybe of martinez.teach what we have from the amatuers and pros how to fight.
watching lopez the other night and hes one of the worlds best i said dam he knows very very little.hes not nfl or nba caliber now.

Come on Dmar. Almost all teams in the NFL and NBA did not recruit black players until they were forced to because of Civil Rights. And they did not get paid as much as white players. That is well documented. There were rare exceptions of blacks playing in these sports, but it was not the norm. Boxing was still the better route to make money as a black athlete.

The scholorships I don't think is the biggest reason. Boxing not being mainstream and big fights not being on free TV is why. Where do future Champs come from? Poor areas. Poor areas that can't afford HBO and Showtime let alone 60 dollar PPVs. Ali become a boxer because he idolized and watched SRR. SRL got into boxing because he idolized Ali. Today, young athletes want to be Kobe or Lebron, not Mayweather.

I think lowerweights are as stacked as they have ever been. But all the crappy nich weight classes have watered the divisions down. Middleweight is garbage. But if you got rid of Jr Middle and Super Middle, what would the division look like?

Frank wrote:In the words of the immortal Bruce Lee, "Boards don't hit back."

But neither do other opponents. Wlad hasn't taken punishment in years.

The difference in athleticism between the top US boxers and the top players in the NFL and NBA is staggering. That's not to say that anyone could box. But the odds are in your favor if you are stronger, faster, and quicker than your opponents. Even if you start late.

Seth Mitchell is a good example. Started after he got injured and couldn't make it in football, and now he's a decent boxer. There are a lot of guys in college as physically talented as Mitchell and literally thousands in the NFL and NBA. To say that none of them could've succeeded as boxers is unlikely. Valuev was able to win a trinket mainly because he was huge. You give me Dwight Howard today and if his heart is in it, I'll find a way to turn him into something.

It's frustrating to see Arreola representing the Heavyweight division when you see so many talented and disciplined athletes in other sports.

keep burying your head in the sand grant.where was tv in the 20s 30s 40s and even in the fifties many had no tv.you combine both the 160 n 154 pound division it still is very sub par.what part of the ralph tiger jones thing did you not understand...again folks the nba nfl does not effect 90 percent of boxings divisions.is that so hard to understand.
hey when i was young i wanted to be bob cousy.not every young kid is a giant.realizsm sets in .a kid 15 today is 5 foot 6 he can dream all he wants about being kobe or lebraun.it isnt going to happen and that kid knows it.keep dismising the opportunites to make a career outside of boxing which has millions of oportunites.how many oportunites are there each year in the nba or nfl.yes im 15 or 16 and i realize i can get a schoorship.yeah ill throw that away and the opportunites it can give me to become a fighter..the hell with a football a baskerball schorlship..the hell with a schorship since im a tough kid at 150 poundsa.ill become a fighter and get a opportunity to make shit percentage wise..
again where were the tvs in the 20s 30s 40s etc etc.the opprtunites to succeed even in the ghetto poor areas have greatly improved..so has the vision of many of our youth.

Before TV, boxing was one of the biggest sports in the US. NBA and NFL did not become major sports until TV came around. Millions of people listened to Joe Louis fight on the radio. Attendance for boxing fights were the biggest.

HW Championship was the biggest prize in sports! Today, HW Championship fights are not even on TV in the US, outside nich networks.

I can't beleive this has to be explained to you.

GrantZilla wrote:Before TV, boxing was one of the biggest sports in the US. NBA and NFL did not become major sports until TV came around. Millions of people listened to Joe Louis fight on the radio. Attendance for boxing fights were the biggest.

HW Championship was the biggest prize in sports! Today, HW Championship fights are not even on TV in the US, outside nich networks.

I can't beleive this has to be explained to you.

...realy the radio now made everyone want to be a fighter.did you forget theres youtube and yes even plenty of poor folks have a computer.again interest isnt there.again more opportunites exist to make a career elsewhere then being a fighter.the fights were mostly attended by adults in thoses days and mostly male.again what part of my valid resoning did you not understand.what part of colledge grades in the 40s was 6 percent and lack of versitile opportunity for young folks then vs today today did you not understand.what part of the reasoning that the nfl and nba does not effect a huge majority of the divisions.all of that factors in to less fighters less interest and the abilty to persue other careers.thats fact.so keep tapdancing with bullshit reasons.there are plenty of factors that has contributed to boxings decline in talent.plenty.i can attempt to explain that to you but takling to a closed mind results in lack of expanding knowledge...povery poor neighborhoods have existed for years.in the 20s and yes there where tons of folks that had no radios for they were extremly expensive.in thoses eras hope was very little.today there is hope.a chance to succed.from 6 percent of colldege grads to far more today.a major expansion of tech schools vs little or nothing before.a stress on education and a far more realitic opportunity to achieve that then before.yes thats where a lot of our fighters have gone weather you ignore it or not thats your problem.kids and yes parents have more vision then before.and the overall talent pool today is inferior.in numbers and in overall complete talent.there are reasons for that also as i explained in another post.so keep your head in the sand.blame tv blame the nba the nfl blame civil rights for sports etc etc.toss away hope more veristle opportunity smarter kids with a vision that maybe i can do ok without being a fighter.dont blame a lot of the parents who encourage and attempt to guide there kids to a better life and yes that guidence comes in all neighborhoods and much more then perhaps before.

Let me guess Kevin Garnett is the unofficial HW champion ?

I already said, the lower weights are just as stacked as they ever have been. With more countries involved in boxing than ever before. It's not lack of talent, it's all the nich weight classes watering the divisions down.

If we went back to the traditional Eight Divisions, they all would be stacked except at HW.

It's as simple as this:

Large American athletes just have more choices than large athletes in other countries. And in many cases, in this day and age, those choices are more lucrative. Whether that being: Having one's education paid for, or making it to the pros where you have gauranteed(somewhat) contracts.

Boxing in the U.S. has turned into almost exclusively a small(er) man's game. Like Grant said, the smaller weight divisions are just as stacked as they've ever been. But many people think(wrongly) in this country, as the HW division goes, is how the sport goes.

Times are different now: The NFL is King, the NBA and MLB are still very strong. These are the sports that the majority of kids in the United States play.

Take my family for instance. My Dad has trained boxers for nearly 30 years. We all grew up in and around the gym. At some point in our lives, my brothers and I were in the gym at some point. My older Brother, who turned out to be a helluva boxer, was a great amateur, and was so good that he was a second alternate on the '92 Olympic team. But my brother was and is what some would call a little guy. Myself and my younger brother grew and grew. By the time I reached HS, it was all about football, basketball, and track. I ended getting a scholarship for football, and the rest is history. My younger brother ended up getting a scholarship for basketball. In the climate we grew up in, it seemed like a natural transition from boxing to other large sized(athlete wise) sports. My brother, if he had continued to grow, may have gravitated from boxing as well. But there were a lot of people in the area I grew up in with similar stories, and I'm sure it's repeated around the country.

Just my input...

Well said Hills. As soon as the NFL and NBA become desegregated and become big time sports, it created more alternatives for big men to make money outside of getting punched in the face.

Boxing is no longer a mainstream sport in the US, and kids do not grow up wanting be the next HW Champ of the world. They want to be next Kobe or Pro Bowl linebacker. Or hell, the next Tiger Woods. Parents do not want their kids getting into boxing and ending up like Ali.

But for smaller fighters, as Hill said, what are the alternatives? What would Mayweather be doing if not boxing? Being a horse jockey?

GrantZilla wrote:Boxing is no longer a mainstream sport in the US, and kids do not grow up wanting be the next HW Champ of the world. They want to be next Kobe or Pro Bowl linebacker. Or hell, the next Tiger Woods. Parents do not want their kids getting into boxing and ending up like Ali.

But for smaller fighters, as Hill said, what are the alternatives? What would Mayweather be doing if not boxing? Being a horse jockey?

The alternatives are the same. Floyd would've tried to make it in basketball and football and never gotten past the college ranks (maybe even the high school ranks). Instead of being 147 he would likely be 160 or bigger and try to make it as a guard or skill player.

floyd his whole life was surrounded by boxing.his dad and 2 uncles were fighters and now trainers.roger was a title holder twice i think and a good fighter.its in his blood..what other alternatives are there for floyd if he wasnt in that enviroment of boxing.we dont know.i suspect gumby is correct at least in high school that floyd may of played basketball baseball or football.would he of become a fighter.no one can say yes for sure.gone on to colledge.perhaps not.got into trouble and went to jail.maybe.worked at the post office or ups perhaps.
his motivation and desire to become a fighter was because that was his families life.its not because he lived poor or in a tough ghetto neighborhood because he didnt.
what if he grew up with parents that did things straight.a non boxing family that lived in a average neighborhood or better like he did.would he have become a fighter.i dont think so..
his values probably would of been entirely differnt.
being athletic as a youth and lets say a good one im guessing floyd because he loves basketball could of won a scolorship to a small colledge even at 5 ft 7 or so.its still being done today.maybe he would of became a business guy under that family enviroment.because he was a good athelith we cant say it will pop in his head that im going to be a fighter.the same with millions of others with that abilty.

Point is, there is less options for smaller athletes than there are for bigger ones. No scouts are beating down the door of flyweight to welterweight size guys to go play college football or basetball. Are there 5'7 guys in those sports? Sure. Guys like Muggsy are the exception, not the norm. Guys under six foot in the NBA are extremly rare.

Fact is, if your a big guy, you're going to want to play in NBA or NFL over boxing. Both sports are more mainstream, don't require getting punched in the face, and you make decent money even if your a third stringer.

GrantZilla wrote:Point is, there is less options for smaller athletes than there are for bigger ones. No scouts are beating down the door of flyweight to welterweight size guys to go play college football or basetball. Are there 5'7 guys in those sports? Sure. Guys like Muggsy are the exception, not the norm. Guys under six foot in the NBA are extremly rare.

Fact is, if your a big guy, you're going to want to play in NBA or NFL over boxing. Both sports are more mainstream, don't require getting punched in the face, and you make decent money even if your a third stringer.

There are loads of small guys in college though. Not everyone goes D1. You don't have to be big to want to play in the NBA or NFL. You just have less of a shot of making it. Or little guys end up in a sport they can play in high school and college: wrestling, track, tennis, baseball, etc.

Do you think high school boxing and collegiate boxing would help? How come that's never happened?

Gumby wrote:Do you think high school boxing and collegiate boxing would help? How come that's never happened?

Liability, lack of money, and Title IX. Title IX has ruined a lot of sports because for every male sports program they have to have a female one that meets the same quota. So if you had a boxing program that had say 20 boxers, they'd have to have either female boxing program or a sports program that has 20 females in it.

So schools will just dump the male athletic programs instead. Why wrestling has been on the chopping block for a lot of schools.

The fact is, that the other sports are much more lucrative to the eye of the potential athlete. There are more colleges recruiting now than ever, taking kids that play the big three.