Froch vs. Abraham, Froch vs Pascal Revisited

One of the things that made Pascal’s recent win over Dawson surprising to me was how Pascal was outboxed by Froch. Froch-Pascal was a very entertaining bout. It wasn’t the very technical fight, for the most part, but there are some very curious things to be noted. I saw the opening rounds of the fight to be very competitive, and I thought Pascal actually had the edge early. However, about midway through the fight, the feel of the fight started to change. Froch stopped walking head on into Pascal’s punches, and begin to seriously establish his jab. When Froch jabbed, Pascal’s offense disappeared or was ineffective. This was especially apparent in the seventh round. Pascal actually began to show swelling and wear around his right eye, a product of Froch’s jab. Froch actually dominated the action when he assertive with his jab. He began landing it with very good accuracy. In fact, Pascal in the late rounds only landed when Froch decided to be mix it up, or when he got careless and started walking into right hands again. I thought the cards were a bit off, but I had Froch winning by about 3-4 rounds.

I think this jab is going to be crucial against Abraham. Now Abraham is, rather falsely, sometimes called a good counterpuncher. This reminds me of the “types of defense” discussion we had a few months back. In terms of "countering," Abraham’s Clottey-shell is a notch below the “parry and counter” technique of JMM and several notches below the “instant read” type of counter we’ve seen from fighters like Alexander, Bute, and recently in Martinez huge KO of Williams. Abraham in my opinion, is really a crude brawler posing as a counterpuncher. Abraham cannot counter effectively out of his shell without first taking the time to load up. When Abraham is on the attack, you’ll notice his hands sometimes drop to waist level.

Now Froch’s defense is nothing to look at. He doesn’t move his head, he keeps his lead hand down low, and doesn’t possess the talent nor the technique to prevent many shots from hitting him. However, Abraham is quite a bit slower than many of Froch’s recent opponents (Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler, Pascal). One can counter over Froch’s low hands, but I’m not sure if Abraham can do it effectively. Froch needs to stay calm and composed when Abraham makes his late-fight rush and must establish a strong jab early. Froch can more than hold his own fighting the caveman style fight, simply because he possesses the physical and mental attributes to do it (chin, respectable firepower, good stamina, tenacity). However, the very heavy handed Abraham is likely the wrong person to do it against.

In my opinion, Abraham is a caveman in a business suit. For this fight Froch should eschew that lunging uppercut and lead hook of his to stay out of trouble, and focus on working on the straight right. Use the jab early to put rounds in the bank when Abraham is inactive, and focus on a double-fucking jab/straight, non-looping right Pavlik style late to stay out of trouble when Abraham puts his foot on the gas.

Dirrell with his fast feet gave Froch hell. Any high level fleet of foot or mobile fighter embarrasses Froch in my opinion. Ward puts a clinic on him. Bute might even stop him if paces himself right. But Abraham is not such a fighter. Abraham won’t play keep away like Dirrell did, nor will he establish a consistent jab, or any real pressure until much later in the fight. In fact, I don’t expect Abraham to suddenly change his stripes and start going early on.

I believe Froch is underrated as a technician (not saying he’s “good” or anything, but he deserves more credit than he often gets when he actually decides to set up his punches), and Abraham is overrated as one when people refer to him as a particularly smart fighter.

I’m taking Froch by decision.



tl;dr

+1

Froch's jab is the key, long reach can keep the "midget king" in his guard and let him work the body

I like Froch's trainer, does a good job getting him back on the game plan after brawls

And I also expect Froch to be super aggressive in the early going because he doesnt trust the judges and knows Abraham wont open up til later in the fight

I got the Cobra as well

Ya'll got it all wrong, Abe is gonna reach Carl's pointy chin and put his lights out, Abe by 8th round KO, you heard it here first.

Ring wrote:Ya'll got it all wrong, Abe is gonna reach Carl's pointy chin and put his lights out, Abe by 8th round KO, you heard it here first.

Froch took Pascal's best shots. He took Kessler's best shots. Neither KO'd him. He is going to use a jab, superior handspeed, and quicker feet to play keep away until late in the fight. There may be some tense moments for Froch fans, but he will survive and the early lead will allow him to win a UD.

captainanddew wrote:

Ring wrote:Ya'll got it all wrong, Abe is gonna reach Carl's pointy chin and put his lights out, Abe by 8th round KO, you heard it here first.

Froch took Pascal's best shots. He took Kessler's best shots. Neither KO'd him. He is going to use a jab, superior handspeed, and quicker feet to play keep away until late in the fight. There may be some tense moments for Froch fans, but he will survive and the early lead will allow him to win a UD.

Neither Pascal or Kessler has as much power as Abraham, I believe Abe makes a statement in this fight and KO's Froch.

BTW, how dare ya'll disagree with me.

the closer the fight gets the more i see this being Froch's win.... but i am from England bearing in mind. Pascal vs Froch was a fight where Froch won in every department, he outboxed, and outfought Pascal. Pascal was hurt many more times then Froch in that fight. Froch's chin is granite, he took Kessler, Dirrell, Pascal and Taylor's biggest shots and i've never seen him on shaky legs. the punch that Taylor put him down with was the sort of haymaker that layed Williams out last week and look how quickly Froch has his senses back. i don't know if Abraham will be able to keep Froch down for the count now, Froch punches super hard himself so it's not like there isn't the risk of Abraham being flattened.

dbudge wrote:the closer the fight gets the more i see this being Froch's win.... but i am from England bearing in mind. Pascal vs Froch was a fight where Froch won in every department, he outboxed, and outfought Pascal. Pascal was hurt many more times then Froch in that fight. Froch's chin is granite, he took Kessler, Dirrell, Pascal and Taylor's biggest shots and i've never seen him on shaky legs. the punch that Taylor put him down with was the sort of haymaker that layed Williams out last week and look how quickly Froch has his senses back. i don't know if Abraham will be able to keep Froch down for the count now, Froch punches super hard himself so it's not like there isn't the risk of Abraham being flattened.

England is awesome. I love all things UK (except for Mr. 13 as we call him). Wife and I are going over next Thanksgiving.

I still can't make up my mind.

captainanddew wrote:

dbudge wrote:the closer the fight gets the more i see this being Froch's win.... but i am from England bearing in mind. Pascal vs Froch was a fight where Froch won in every department, he outboxed, and outfought Pascal. Pascal was hurt many more times then Froch in that fight. Froch's chin is granite, he took Kessler, Dirrell, Pascal and Taylor's biggest shots and i've never seen him on shaky legs. the punch that Taylor put him down with was the sort of haymaker that layed Williams out last week and look how quickly Froch has his senses back. i don't know if Abraham will be able to keep Froch down for the count now, Froch punches super hard himself so it's not like there isn't the risk of Abraham being flattened.

England is awesome. I love all things UK (except for Mr. 13 as we call him). Wife and I are going over next Thanksgiving.

they don't celebrate thanksgiving, but they do have Boxing Day!

Canvas wrote:I still can't make up my mind.

embrance the UK. War Froch.

captainanddew wrote:

dbudge wrote:the closer the fight gets the more i see this being Froch's win.... but i am from England bearing in mind. Pascal vs Froch was a fight where Froch won in every department, he outboxed, and outfought Pascal. Pascal was hurt many more times then Froch in that fight. Froch's chin is granite, he took Kessler, Dirrell, Pascal and Taylor's biggest shots and i've never seen him on shaky legs. the punch that Taylor put him down with was the sort of haymaker that layed Williams out last week and look how quickly Froch has his senses back. i don't know if Abraham will be able to keep Froch down for the count now, Froch punches super hard himself so it's not like there isn't the risk of Abraham being flattened.

England is awesome. I love all things UK (except for Mr. 13 as we call him). Wife and I are going over next Thanksgiving.

lol we don't celebrate thanksgiving, that's an American tradition, you are chicken oriental bruv

November is an extremely cold time to visit Britain, you'll end up with icicles dangling from your face.

Ali wrote:November is an extremely cold time to visit Britain, you'll end up with icicles dangling from your face.

what is going on with this premature weather man??!!! I saw an iceberg the size of the Titanic floating along the Thames earlier...

dbudge wrote:

Ali wrote:November is an extremely cold time to visit Britain, you'll end up with icicles dangling from your face.

what is going on with this premature weather man??!!! I saw an iceberg the size of the Titanic floating along the Thames earlier...

It's winter time

Every single year we make a huge ordeal out of the weather, and yet we never seem to prepare for next year

Last year there was terrible snow all over the country and we had little grit to tackle it, and surprise surprise we don't have any grit this year. Typical.

Ali wrote:

dbudge wrote:

Ali wrote:November is an extremely cold time to visit Britain, you'll end up with icicles dangling from your face.

what is going on with this premature weather man??!!! I saw an iceberg the size of the Titanic floating along the Thames earlier...

It's winter time

Every single year we make a huge ordeal out of the weather, and yet we never seem to prepare for next year

Last year there was terrible snow all over the country and we had little grit to tackle it, and surprise surprise we don't have any grit this year. Typical.

not in November we didn't!!! in January/February it's normally when we get snow, you live in Scotland so you was born cold. Down in ssoowwff we ain't used to these Arctic conditions

I like this fight, Froch's beard has held up well, but Abe has a lot of power, I think Froch wins via SD only because I think he takes Abe's best shots, but simply outworks Abe.

Groundhog wrote:I believe Froch is underrated as a technician (not saying he’s “good” or anything, but he deserves more credit than he often gets when he actually decides to set up his punches), and Abraham is overrated as one when people refer to him as a particularly smart fighter.

I'll go as far as to say Froch is a good technician. His jab is unique because has such a distorted sideways stance that he gets a freakish reach. I think he picks him apart and stops him late in a war.

good insight woodchuck, but I disagree with the outcome. I have Abraham taking Froches head violently. Abraham does almost nothing until the late rounds, but I got to say when he lets his hands go, hes more dangerous than top guys like Pacquaio and Wlad. Abraham has violent power and could knock out anyone he faces. Froch still doesnt have much of a defense and is as hittable as Librado Andrade. Froch may do good in the early going based on inactivity from Abraham, but I dont believe Froch has the fire power or even speed to make Abraham respect him like Dirrell did. It will be a very good fight and I cant wait for it. Its gonna be better than Marquez-Katsidis... I think

bump