Question on Hopkins

The goal in this thread is not to take sides on the Hopkins - Dawson controversy. Very quickly, I'll say that the boy who cried wolf was left to be eaten up by the vicious creature for a reason. If you don't know the story, read it. As Foreman said on Twitter, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." (See "Hopkins - Allen" & "Hopkins - Jones.")

My question is this. Can anyone on here give me a champion in any part of boxing history who was "Allegedly" injured by fouls as much as Hopkins "claimed" to be? (Just a side note here. I used to be a big fan of Hopkins and ordered many of former his fights, "Trinidad, Taylor, etc on PPV"). Personally, I've never seen anything like Bernard Hopkins before, and I'm going back to John L. Sullivan and travelling all the way to the Klits. I have to say, in all honesty, I haven't nor do I expect to see anything like him again. (Just to make it crystal clear, I'm speaking of Hopkins habit of faking injuries. If his present "cry" is authentic, it would make no difference in the way I thought about him. Please see the "Boy Crying Wolf" analogy. )

I don't know boxing history but it seems MOST not all of Hopkins injuries have been legit. He had a dislocated shoulder both times he claimed it. He passed out in the locker room after the Jones rematch. I don't know about the ankle injury but I am one of the few people that think Joe landed at least one low blow out of the 3 or 4 Hopkins complained about. BHop may be my boy but he is a dirty, win-at-all costs fighter. A dirty fight lends itself to creating random somewhat freak injuries.

no comment on bhops authenticity of injuries,but they do happen at a greater rate than the norm.whether it's because of wear & tear(age)or the accrued knowledge of a wiley veterean,is irrelevant,but using the"boy who cried wolf analogy","those who live by the sword...".sooner or later bhop will be the victim,without doubt.when that occurs,he will have no grounds to complain.

frank i cant think of another high profile fighter that is similar to hopkins in that regaurd.

Marble (and others) always used to argue that "durability" was a boxing skill like any other - that being able to fight with an injury is quality that makes someone a great boxer.

I don't actually agree with that, which is why I don't really have a problem with this fight being an NC. I love boxing, but I don't want to see a bloodsport where guys get seriously injured. Like James Caan in that old clip from "The Program" there's a difference between being "hurt" and being "injured". All boxers deal with being hurt, they shouldn't have to deal with injuries in the same way.

For example, a guy slips and blows out his ACL - should he take a loss in that fight? Should he be expected to gimp around the ring and try to finish the fight while injured? Is there skill or honor in that? Or should the fight be stopped as a NC (or just go to the card depending on the round)?

I don't think fake injuries are much of a problem in boxing generally, at least I can't think of too many guys who quit IN the ring and feigned injury (training camp is another story) so I say give them the benefit of the doubt.

Reason why can't find many fighters with as many injurries as Hops is because there are not lot of fighters in boxing history fighting well into their 40s.

This become more common today because got fighters who's "primes" are in their 30s, where in the past, you were on decline if not shot by the time you were 30, especially in the lowerweights.

Hops started the whole milking injurries when he got older, and almost always because he needed a breather. Calzaghe fight comes to mind. The man is a dinosaure in the ring.

Tobe, you make some excellent points here but I respectfully disagree. Reason being that some of the greatest fights ever were great because of boxers overcoming physical injuries sustained in that respective fight.

Does anyone think that Muhammad Ali’s statement of “Being near death” after the tenth round in the “Thriller in Manila” was a fake? I saw an interview between “Howard Cossell” and “Ali” 3 months after that bout. His skin color was pale and he seemed to grimace with every move. No doubt he was a shot fighter following that contest. Years later I looked at this with my father on “Classic Sports.” I was suffering from a serious shoulder injury and I hadn’t had a good night’s sleep for weeks. I asked my father if he thought Ali was in more pain than I was and he laughed, then he stated “I would think so. Look at him grimacing.”

Henry Armstrong once fought a fight with a lip that was cut in half by a punch. The ref was about to stop the fight and Armstrong said he could continue and lower the blood flow. Henry swallowed quarts of blood and actually won the fight. (Note: I forget who he defeated. Ask D’mar. LOL) I watched Tyrell Biggs win a fight with a separated shoulder (I think his opponent was George Chaplin, but does it really matter?) "The Rock" had his nose cut in half in a fight with "Ezzard Charles." Marciano's nose was a double for a Pig's snout. He ended up knocking Ezzard out.

As far as Hopkins is concerned, I’m anxious to find out what the final bullshit report is on his shoulder. I know about shoulder injuries and I’m sure that if he sustained a serious injury there, he would’ve been unable to talk, let alone flex his shoulder for the camera. It’s easy to pay a doctor to fake an “MRI” result. Docs fake reports for folks trying to get “Workers Comp” all the time, which is what is happening in Bernard’s case. (Just for the record, I took pain pills usually given to burn victims with my injury and the pain worked its way through that. I had to get stronger pills in the emergency room and a shot of morphine just to get a good nights sleep. And no, there was no separation in my case. Bernard is LYING his ass off.)

Frank wrote:Tobe, you make some excellent points here but I respectfully disagree. Reason being that some of the greatest fights ever were great because of boxers overcoming physical injuries sustained in that respective fight.

Does anyone think that Muhammad Ali’s statement of “Being near death” after the tenth round in the “Thriller in Manila” was a fake? I saw an interview between “Howard Cossell” and “Ali” 3 months after that bout. His skin color was pale and he seemed to grimace with every move. No doubt he was a shot fighter following that contest. Years later I looked at this with my father on “Classic Sports.” I was suffering from a serious shoulder injury and I hadn’t had a good night’s sleep for weeks. I asked my father if he thought Ali was in more pain than I was and he laughed, then he stated “I would think so. Look at him grimacing.”

Henry Armstrong once fought a fight with a lip that was cut in half by a punch. The ref was about to stop the fight and Armstrong said he could continue and lower the blood flow. Henry swallowed quarts of blood and actually won the fight. (Note: I forget who he defeated. Ask D’mar. LOL) I watched Tyrell Biggs win a fight with a separated shoulder (I think his opponent was George Chaplin, but does it really matter?) "The Rock" had his nose cut in half in a fight with "Ezzard Charles." Marciano's nose was a double for a Pig's snout. He ended up knocking Ezzard out.

As far as Hopkins is concerned, I’m anxious to find out what the final bullshit report is on his shoulder. I know about shoulder injuries and I’m sure that if he sustained a serious injury there, he would’ve been unable to talk, let alone flex his shoulder for the camera. It’s easy to pay a doctor to fake an “MRI” result. Docs fake reports for folks trying to get “Workers Comp” all the time, which is what is happening in Bernard’s case. (Just for the record, I took pain pills usually given to burn victims with my injury and the pain worked its way through that. I had to get stronger pills in the emergency room and a shot of morphine just to get a good nights sleep. And no, there was no separation in my case. Bernard is LYING his ass off.)

Matt (LA)


I'm no BHop fan, but I was shocked at all the legitimate boxing folks who believed he was faking. BHop can be arrogant and be a manipulator, but whimp out on a fight. No way. Agree?
Dan Rafael
(12:14 PM)


I dont care what anyone says. He was not faking in my opinion. I was in his hotel suite an hour or so after he got back from the hospital. I looked at his shoulder and it looked messed up just from the naked eye. I also read his medical report and tweeted photos of it. The man was not faking at all.

Visibly deformed is a pretty good indication.

If he's telling the truth (Bernard), how could I or anyone else be blamed for doubting him?

Honestly, when I mention the Robert Allen fight, I really don't think anyone on here saw that one. Yes, Hopkins beat Allen on more than one occasion. However, there was one night where Allen was destroying Hopkins. Hopkins managed to fall out of the ring and claim an ankle injury. Also, why did he fall to the canvas when Roy Jones patted him on the back of his head?

UBeeg9cats, let me be brutally honest here. If you told me that you saw Bernard injured, it would carry weight with me. Fat Dan carries no weight with me at all. No pun intended.

Very valid point Frank. I'm always trying to defend BHop but sometimes its rough. Thats the best I could do in this situation. I think Dawson and maybe Erdei if he has a trinket before he should call it a career. If a Tarver or Toney fight at cruiser for a trinket pops up, its also a good option. He's too old and should be developing his exit strategy.

You guys are really ignoring the age factor here. Hops never milked injurries when he was in his prime. He started doing it when he got older.

You really can't compare Hops to past fighters, because how many past Greats where fighting and winning Championships well into their 40s? Only Big George.

Big George had freakish power, and that's how he won the HW title at such an old age. He lost every round but it only took one punch.

Hops doesn't got that kind of power, so he has to rely on cagey vet tricks.

I think he was milking it, but not faking. He was trying to get a breather and possibly some points. What I'm still unclear on is whether Hopkins said he wanted to keep fighting. According to him he did, and the doctor waived it off. If that's the case they should've let him fight with one arm like he wanted.

Frank wrote:It’s easy to pay a doctor to fake an “MRI” result. Docs fake reports for folks trying to get “Workers Comp” all the time, which is what is happening in Bernard’s case. (Just for the record, I took pain pills usually given to burn victims with my injury and the pain worked its way through that. I had to get stronger pills in the emergency room and a shot of morphine just to get a good nights sleep. And no, there was no separation in my case. Bernard is LYING his ass off.)

Are you saying that it's easy to pay off a doctor based on what you've seen? As for the pain, people have completely different tolerances. I know someone who separated his shoulder and didn't take any pain medication other than anti-inflammatories and continued to go through school while injured. He doesn't have too much permanent damage (a little loss of range of motion) so I'm not sure how severe it was on the scale of shoulder injuries.