Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
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GrantZilla
boxinglawyer
6 posters
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Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
I was looking back at my fight collection and noticed a BUNCH of fighters that just never quite got to the pinnacle of the sport despite having tons of talent. For some of them is was one bad loss that the public or promoters never forgave them for. For some it was the fact that NOBODY would fight them. Still others didnt understand the business side of the sport OR they understood the business side but lacked the old-school courage to test themselves. Here are a few examples.
Sumbu Kalambay. They guy won is world title from 38-0 Herol Graham in a big upset. He then defended it against guys like Mike McCallum and Doug DeWitt. He had never been off his feet when he met Michael Nunn in a proposed unification bout. In a huge fluke, he was knocked out in 93 seconds with one punch as he made an awkward attempt to shift his stance. That fight changed his career. Nobody would televise his fights in th US after that. Even though he went on to again defeat Mike McCallum and wn a second title, he never again had a real shot at stardom. If he fights Nunn 1000 more times, he would not go down and would probably have won 6 or 700 of thse 1k bouts. Just a fluke loss.
What do Frankie Liles and Darius Michalzcewski have in common? Both guys could have been household names if they just could have gotten Roy Jones in the ring. Both guys would have been big underdogs to him BUT both guys would have beaten him in all likelihood. In the case of Liles, he already had. Darius did ok for himself though. He set a record for most consective title defenses and did well enough that and HBO poll of "who do you most want to see Jones fight next" was his by more than triple the second place vote getter. He also was a bigger star in every country in the world not called USA. But Lilies? He had thrice faced jones as an amateur going 1-2 against Jones, but having dropped jones twice in his win, and getting a pair of standing eight counts on jones in the "kds dont score points" amateur system in one of the losses. Liles had the size,the style, the power, and the skill to beat jones, and roy knew it. Think of Antonio Tarver with more handspeed and quicker feet. Thats Frankie Liles. Who knows how far either these guys could have gone with a Jones KO win under thier belts.
Tommy Morrison. He loved to party. He was ONE fight from getting his big chance against a "pre-Steward" Lennox Lewis. The lumbering, leaning, no-jabbing, clumsy heavywieght champion. THAT Lennox Lewis would have been 50-50 at best against the quick-fisted and hard hitting Morrison. Instead, TOmmy trained for the Michael Bennt fight at the Bricktown Brewrey and never again would see such an opportunity for a break-through fight come his way.
Ray Mercer. He seemed to be on the brink a couple times. He jabbed Lennox Lewis to pieces and dominated him only to see the fight declared a draw and could never get Lennox to give him a retun bout. He aged quickly having started so late in the sport, and one missed chance was one more than he could afford.
David Tua. Talk about a waste! He made a name for himself by WRECKING people as a 220 pound 60 punches a round buzzsaw who almost always got his guy. They he suddenly puts on 30-40 pounds and starts throwing 15 punches a round. WTF?!
WInky Wright. All he skill in the world and tons of chances to fight top guys. Only problem? he thought HE was the top guy an demanded more money than he was worth. He could never bring himself to take the short money for ONE fight to make the long money afterwards.
I have a ton more, who you got.
Sumbu Kalambay. They guy won is world title from 38-0 Herol Graham in a big upset. He then defended it against guys like Mike McCallum and Doug DeWitt. He had never been off his feet when he met Michael Nunn in a proposed unification bout. In a huge fluke, he was knocked out in 93 seconds with one punch as he made an awkward attempt to shift his stance. That fight changed his career. Nobody would televise his fights in th US after that. Even though he went on to again defeat Mike McCallum and wn a second title, he never again had a real shot at stardom. If he fights Nunn 1000 more times, he would not go down and would probably have won 6 or 700 of thse 1k bouts. Just a fluke loss.
What do Frankie Liles and Darius Michalzcewski have in common? Both guys could have been household names if they just could have gotten Roy Jones in the ring. Both guys would have been big underdogs to him BUT both guys would have beaten him in all likelihood. In the case of Liles, he already had. Darius did ok for himself though. He set a record for most consective title defenses and did well enough that and HBO poll of "who do you most want to see Jones fight next" was his by more than triple the second place vote getter. He also was a bigger star in every country in the world not called USA. But Lilies? He had thrice faced jones as an amateur going 1-2 against Jones, but having dropped jones twice in his win, and getting a pair of standing eight counts on jones in the "kds dont score points" amateur system in one of the losses. Liles had the size,the style, the power, and the skill to beat jones, and roy knew it. Think of Antonio Tarver with more handspeed and quicker feet. Thats Frankie Liles. Who knows how far either these guys could have gone with a Jones KO win under thier belts.
Tommy Morrison. He loved to party. He was ONE fight from getting his big chance against a "pre-Steward" Lennox Lewis. The lumbering, leaning, no-jabbing, clumsy heavywieght champion. THAT Lennox Lewis would have been 50-50 at best against the quick-fisted and hard hitting Morrison. Instead, TOmmy trained for the Michael Bennt fight at the Bricktown Brewrey and never again would see such an opportunity for a break-through fight come his way.
Ray Mercer. He seemed to be on the brink a couple times. He jabbed Lennox Lewis to pieces and dominated him only to see the fight declared a draw and could never get Lennox to give him a retun bout. He aged quickly having started so late in the sport, and one missed chance was one more than he could afford.
David Tua. Talk about a waste! He made a name for himself by WRECKING people as a 220 pound 60 punches a round buzzsaw who almost always got his guy. They he suddenly puts on 30-40 pounds and starts throwing 15 punches a round. WTF?!
WInky Wright. All he skill in the world and tons of chances to fight top guys. Only problem? he thought HE was the top guy an demanded more money than he was worth. He could never bring himself to take the short money for ONE fight to make the long money afterwards.
I have a ton more, who you got.
boxinglawyer- Posts : 373
Join date : 2010-10-25
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
You forgot about biggest waste
GrantZilla- Posts : 9310
Join date : 2010-11-05
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
Feels like Oscar wasn't as good as he could have been. Still he accomplished way more than most so whatever.
kbyte- Posts : 730
Join date : 2010-10-28
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
boxinglawyer some excellent ones like tua for example or mercer..the middleweight that duva had that went to jail a long time for rape tony a..tony demarco if he didnt run into a fighter called carmen basilio twice.2 fighters that appeared to be on there way was light heavy andrew maynard till ray leanord trained him and tried to change his style and mark breland who just fell apart.howard davis had the glory and hype after the olympics started out strong then fell far short of potential.
gerry cooney morned his loss to holmes and unmotivated himself.ive always felt the macho man was a great fighter but could of been a all time great top 15 but stupidity drugs party time and burglary and distractions prevented him from achieving that.
gerry cooney morned his loss to holmes and unmotivated himself.ive always felt the macho man was a great fighter but could of been a all time great top 15 but stupidity drugs party time and burglary and distractions prevented him from achieving that.
Guest- Guest
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
I think you're right about that, kybte. When Oscar stopped boxing and replaced a move and jab style with a "golden boy feet stuck in the mud" style, he started making easy fights difficult.kbyte wrote:Feels like Oscar wasn't as good as he could have been. Still he accomplished way more than most so whatever.
It began when he fought an over the hill Julio Chavez. Oscar moved and jabbed against an aggressive Chavez and won by TKO in the 4 or 5th round. However, because some untrained eyes thought Julio, who looked like he was chasing Oscar, would've won had he not been cut, Oscar decided to fight him again. This time, Oscar decided to fight like he thought a Mexican should and performed with little or no movement. The fight was much more difficult than it should've been though Oscar did win by 11th round TKO. Oscar kept this style for the rest of his career and in my opinion, never reached his true potential because of it.
Another fighter who I thought wasted a lot of talent was Bonecrusher Smith. How does someone knock out both "Mike Weaver" and "Tim Witherspoon" in a single round, yet lose a 10 decision to Marvis Frazier? Crusher was a lazy S.O.B., but when he decided to fight.....
Mike Weaver could've had a better career had Holmes not flat out refused to fight him again (Senior tours don't count.). Michael Dokes would've had a better career had he stopped fighting himself.
A "Greg Page" who trained for fights looked like a lightening rod and a ring general. The Page who couldn't train because he was preoccupied with Don King stealing all his money fought like a flat out bum.
What the hell happened to Oba Carr? If you knew him, you know what I'm talking about. Carr used to fight on the last great boxing show, "USA Tuesday Night Fights." He went from looking like the next Leonard or Robinson to opponent status. I'm honestly still puzzled by him.
If Ray Mercer learned how to fight earlier in his career, I'm convinced he would've been a superstar. Ray Mercer embarrassed himself against a mediocre Jesse Ferguson. He actually tried to bribe Ferguson to throw the contest in their 2nd fight. He offered him 100,000 dollars in the middle of their 2nd fight if he'd just go down! This was followed by Mercer learning how to fight and giving a prime Lennox Lewis hell. Fought well against Holyfield too. If he had learned about the jab he had earlier in his career, he would've been an undisputed champ at some point.
Good thread, BL.
Last edited by Frank on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:55 am; edited 2 times in total
Frank- Posts : 1930
Join date : 2010-10-21
Age : 48
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
You're right dmar, but don't forget about Edwin Rosario. Camacho was never the same after Edwin hit him with the heavy artillery. Hector survived the scare and won a controversial 12 round split decision. I'm convinced this fight had Hector too scared to risk taking another punch. A "Pre - Rosario" Camacho was a future all time great and one of the most amazing figthers I ever saw.dmar5143 wrote:boxinglawyer some excellent ones like tua for example or mercer..the middleweight that duva had that went to jail a long time for rape tony a..tony demarco if he didnt run into a fighter called carmen basilio twice.2 fighters that appeared to be on there way was light heavy andrew maynard till ray leanord trained him and tried to change his style and mark breland who just fell apart.howard davis had the glory and hype after the olympics started out strong then fell far short of potential.
gerry cooney morned his loss to holmes and unmotivated himself.ive always felt the macho man was a great fighter but could of been a all time great top 15 but stupidity drugs party time and burglary and distractions prevented him from achieving that.
Frank- Posts : 1930
Join date : 2010-10-21
Age : 48
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
Frank wrote:You're right dmar, but don't forget about Edwin Rosario. Camacho was never the same after Edwin hit him with the heavy artillery. Hector survived the scare and won a controversial 12 round split decision. I'm convinced this fight had Hector too scared to risk taking another punch. A "Pre - Rosario" Camacho was a future all time great and one of the most amazing figthers I ever saw.dmar5143 wrote:boxinglawyer some excellent ones like tua for example or mercer..the middleweight that duva had that went to jail a long time for rape tony a..tony demarco if he didnt run into a fighter called carmen basilio twice.2 fighters that appeared to be on there way was light heavy andrew maynard till ray leanord trained him and tried to change his style and mark breland who just fell apart.howard davis had the glory and hype after the olympics started out strong then fell far short of potential.
gerry cooney morned his loss to holmes and unmotivated himself.ive always felt the macho man was a great fighter but could of been a all time great top 15 but stupidity drugs party time and burglary and distractions prevented him from achieving that.
You beat me to it. I was gonna say one punch from Rosario ruined Camacho. He underwent a SERIOUS style and attitude change after Rosario whacked the hell out of him. He just never got the aggressive side of his style back after that punch.
boxinglawyer- Posts : 373
Join date : 2010-10-25
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
dmar5143 wrote:boxinglawyer some excellent ones like tua for example or mercer..the middleweight that duva had that went to jail a long time for rape tony a..tony demarco if he didnt run into a fighter called carmen basilio twice.2 fighters that appeared to be on there way was light heavy andrew maynard till ray leanord trained him and tried to change his style and mark breland who just fell apart.howard davis had the glory and hype after the olympics started out strong then fell far short of potential.
gerry cooney morned his loss to holmes and unmotivated himself.ive always felt the macho man was a great fighter but could of been a all time great top 15 but stupidity drugs party time and burglary and distractions prevented him from achieving that.
I liked Maynard too. In fact, I was really excited about the division when he was in it. He came out along with Leeonze Barber out of he Kronk Gym and tutelage of Emmanuel Steward, Anthony Hembrick was coming along and guys like Virgil Hill, Michael Moorer,Charles Williams, Dennis Andries and some guy name Thomas Hearns were stomping around the division. It seemed like the division was poised for a golden era like the one ruled by Mike Spinks, but then very few of the big fights happened. Oh yeah, and that Polish guy started beating everyone up.
boxinglawyer- Posts : 373
Join date : 2010-10-25
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
Great list.
My guy is Ike Quartey. I think had he beaten De La Hoya his career would've gone in another direction. He didn't put up a fluke performance but lost anyways. After that he went up in weight and took another loss that sent him to Bolivian.
My guy is Ike Quartey. I think had he beaten De La Hoya his career would've gone in another direction. He didn't put up a fluke performance but lost anyways. After that he went up in weight and took another loss that sent him to Bolivian.
Gumby- Posts : 2256
Join date : 2010-10-24
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
maybe he might already qualifies as great,but if jeff fenech didn't have chalk for bones....
shakefree- Posts : 359
Join date : 2010-11-06
Re: Good fighters who COULD have been GREAT.
quartey is a beauty,he was just missing the x factor.if he had,for example gatti's warrior instinct,oh my f'n god!
shakefree- Posts : 359
Join date : 2010-11-06
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