THE APEX [RECYCLED]

We often talk and debate a fighter's prime and what it means. I think for a fighter who is a championship level guy, his prime begins when he defeats his first ranked contender and ends when he can no longer compete on that level. I think a fighter's peak is something else. That is a much shorter time when the fighter was at his very, very best. The time when his experience is maximized just before his body begins to betray him. It is unusual for that to last more than a couple of years. Both of these can really only be known in hindsight. While it is happening we can only guess.

The question I am asking now is what was the APEX for a given fighter. The absolute, very best night where it all came together for him. The night when he was physically fit, mentally focused and perfectly trained. The night where the time from the fighter thinking something and actually doing it is no time at all. the night where he anticipates everything, the night where even his trainers cannot complain. I would argue an APEX can only be judged against a high quality fighter. Blowing out a mismatch means nothing.

Some guys kind of make it easy. They have told us themselves.

For Joe Louis? It was the Max Baer fight.

For Max Schmeling? It was the first Joe Louis fight.

For Roberto Duran? Ken Buchanan

For Mike Tyson? Mike Spinks

For others? Tough to know. That is our task here. Here are eight of mine.

Ezzard Charles-His third fight with Archie Moore in 1948. Charles is in the middle of the greatest run in the history of the light heavy division. He is winning the fight when in the eighth round the greatest knockout artist the sport has ever known hammers the Cobra with a hook. How great was Charles that night? He threw a series of hooks back, a single right hand and Moore was OUT! In his next fight Ezzard kills Sam Baroudi and he is never quite as savage again.

Sugar Ray Robinson-This is a very tough one because the footage of Robinson at 147 is so scarce. My head says it may have been the second Kid Gavilan fight where Robinson is 28, at his best weight and clearly dominates an ATG in Gavilan. But I can't SEE it. So I am going with his 1951 knockout of Jake LaMotta. When you watch the St. Valentine's Day Massacre you see the ring genius at work painting a masterpiece with his body. He spends ten rounds just walking LaMotta's legs off and then three rounds delivering one of the sports most savage beatings. Robinson is 29 and weights in at 155.

Henry Armstrong-He is 25, weighs 133 and is in the midst of a 38 fight winning streak. The pressure fighter's pressure fighter is in with, and giving up nine pounds to, ATG and welterweight king Barney Ross. Ross, 28, is 74-3 and his only loss in the last 7 years is to ATG Jimmy McClarnin whom he beat two out of three. Armstrong is so good, so ferocious, so fit and so dominant that, before the eleventh round, when he asks Ross , who has never been KO'd how he is? Ross answers "I'm dead." Armstrong tells him as long as Ross doesn't throw a hard right, Armstrong will carry him the distance. Ross holsters his right hand and lasts 15 winning only two rounds on two of the scorecards.

Nicolino Locche-This one happens later than most. The chain smoking Argentine is over 30 when HOFer Antonio Cervantes comes calling in 1971. Cervantes already has 55 wins but this is his first title shot. I saw this fight as a child in the early 1970's on film and it blew me away. Cervantes becomes a GREAT fighter and yet he looks foolish, and I mean foolish, for 15 rounds. He simply cannot hit Locche. The champion wins all 15 rounds on all three cards and it wasn't even THAT close. Lochhe stood in the pocket all night long, made Kid Pambele miss three or four shots and then pot shotted him in return. Over and over and over again.

Marvin Hagler-I think folks can disagree on this one as for 3-4 years from 1979-1983 Hagler was about as consistent as a fighter comes. But I'll pick the first Fulgencio Obelmejias. The #1 ranked contender is tall, long puncher, a very tough guy, courageous as hell and he looks much bigger than the 26 year old Marvin. But from the beginning Hagler is extremely aggressive, as active a puncher as he will ever be, never tiring and always at the right distance. He jumps back and forth between southpaw and orthodox, slipping, bobbing and throwing combination after combination and it is stopped in the eighth. A Tour de Force among a series of them.

Roy Jones, Junior-The absolute tragedy of this pick is we only ever got to see a savage, relentless, go for broke Roy Jones once and for a single round. He is 28, just got DQ'd and Montell Griffin pays. KO 1. I should say the Jones that in his next fight wrecked Virgil Hill with a right hook to the body that would have made Ray Robinson smile was almost that good.

Ricardo Lopez-I watched this man improve in every single fight from his first title win in 1990 through mid 1990's (about 15 fights later) with never a reverse step. He was always, always, always adding to the arsenal until it was complete. I think the first time I saw Lopez and said that's it, now he has everything was the Andy Tabanas fight in 1995. Tabanas was a very tough Filipino with a 30-2 record who would remain among the division's elites for another 5-6 years. But Lopez won every round, showcased hie entire toolbox of perfect balance, perfect control of distance, envious ring generalship and finally in the last round he closed the show with his normal display of power. Just sensational.

Bernard Hopkins-As impressive as the win over Kelly Pavlik was, it really is not as impressive as what he did to Felix Trinidad almost a decade earlier. Tito was in the midst of one of perhaps the greatest run of the decade. A fighter of skill and power and relentless will and courage. For me? That was what I saw. The reason BHOP is BHOP? He looked at Tito and saw that his feet could only succeed in straight lines. That he simply wasn't athletic enough to work angles and adjust to lateral movement. Oscar had shown some of that but hadn't been willing to take the fire for 12 rounds. BHOP was a conductor that night and the piece he chose was "Turn, Turn, Turn." BHOP's feet and BHOP's IQ chop down a legend.

Where am I wrong and what were other fighter's Apexes?

Marble, are you being condescending again? Just kidding man, great thread, i'll read it better tommorrow and give a response.

Ring wrote:Marble, are you being condescending again? Just kidding man, great thread, i'll read it better tommorrow and give a response.

I'm trying to earn the title patronizing!

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Ring wrote:Marble, are you being condescending again? Just kidding man, great thread, i'll read it better tommorrow and give a response.

I'm trying to earn the title patronizing!

LMAO, it's all good man, I love reading your contibutions.

It's hard to say what Ali's APX fight might have been because he had so many, but the one with Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams showcased the massive amount of talent he had, all in one night.

P.S. I would say Ali's fight against Foreman, but rather than being his APEX, that was more a case of the old fox simply out thinking the young warrior. (rope a dope)

For Floyd Mayweather Jr.

The Gatti fight. It was not his most memorable performance, but it may have been his most flawless. Most people talk about how he was a monster at 130, but I think his best weight was 140. He had more experience (and had learned to take better care of his hands) and better technical skill because of that, but still had all of his athleticism. His power and size did not move up with him, but everything else translated better (hand speed, foot speed, reflexes, technique, tactics, ring savvy). Even though Gatti was not on Floyd's level or even on the level of some of his better opponents, he was still a decent fighter who was made to look like an amateur. It was the biggest and most mainstream fight of Floyd's career and he did not get distracted and put on a clinic or how to box.

What about fighters like George Foreman or Muhammad Ali who may have had multiple peaks? Or when a fighter's experience may overcompensate for their declining athleticism to the point where they are better after their athletic prime?

Gumby wrote:For Floyd Mayweather Jr.

The Gatti fight. It was not his most memorable performance, but it may have been his most flawless. Most people talk about how he was a monster at 130, but I think his best weight was 140. He had more experience (and had learned to take better care of his hands) and better technical skill because of that, but still had all of his athleticism. His power and size did not move up with him, but everything else translated better (hand speed, foot speed, reflexes, technique, tactics, ring savvy). Even though Gatti was not on Floyd's level or even on the level of some of his better opponents, he was still a decent fighter who was made to look like an amateur. It was the biggest and most mainstream fight of Floyd's career and he did not get distracted and put on a clinic or how to box.

What about fighters like George Foreman or Muhammad Ali who may have had multiple peaks? Or when a fighter's experience may overcompensate for their declining athleticism to the point where they are better after their athletic prime?

See I thought Floyd would lose to Chico and that Gatti would be lucky to last three rounds, so that colors my thinking.

Your second paragraph is a really insightful one. I'm trying to think of a fighter that the last would be represented by. BHOP-Tito might be one, Jersey Joe Walcott against Joe Louis another, hmmmm. Gotta work on my definition I think!