Manny Pac vs. Floyd MW.

(note: It was "KO Boxing Mag" that really did a great job with the "Point - Counter Point" concept for superfights. I hope someone can either agree with my assessment or counter the hell out of it. Let's have some fucking fun fellas.)

Though I was disappointed in Manny's last two efforts, I'm not ready to put him on the "out to pasture list" at the moment. I'll be brutally honest and admit that a great deal of my enthusiasm for the MW - Pac fight has gone away. Never have I seen two fighters and one promoter destroy a super fight as these 3 men have, however if you live long enough you get to see everything. There are some strange occurrences and certain factors to this fight that I think I've come to understand.

(a) Pac's last performance: I heard the ESPN radio correspondent state that Marquez is Pacs "Ken Norton." Bullshit. (Ken Norton wasn't anyone's Ken Norton. Yes, he did fight effectively against Ali. He also did so against, Jimmy Young, Larry Holmes and Jerry Quarry.) Marquez is a counterpuncher with a poor defense. He's not a stylist. Problem in that fight and Manny in particular is that Manny can't decide whether he wants to be Michael Jackson (which he can't do), Barak Obama (can't do that either.) or a fighter (which he does very well.) If he picks the 3rd choice I still think he challenges MW to the fight of his life. (Point. Manny stunk up the joint against Mosley as well. However, it was apparent, at least to me, that he could've taken Shane out whenever he wished. Something's a little wrong with Manny at the moment.)

(b) Yes, Floyd and Manny are both great fighters. However, because MW is such a brilliant ring general, he doesn't have to fight great to win. He can start and stop the action at will and outbox a stronger and even faster opponent. In contrast, Manny has to fight great to win. His style demands that he attack and break the opponent down. He's not a chess player like Floyd, but his desire, guts, speed and power can set him up for a possible win if he returns to his former greatness.

(c) I've always admired Floyd's boxing brilliance, however if he's takes a fight with Manny on the premise that Pac has lost it, that's just plain dumb. My experience in this sport has shown me that one bad outing from a great fighter is not worth noting if the fighter in question knows what he did wrong. Leonard was knocked down against club fighting "Kevin Howard" just a year or so before his fight with the murderous Marvin Hagler. If MW takes this fight, he needs to look at the films of Manny's best outing, which in my opinion was his fight against Cotto. That's the Manny he just might be facing.

(d) Will this fight happen? Personally, I don't give a fuck. However, if it does, please know that Manny has taken this fight because, in his mind, he knows he can defeat MW. And mind you, he doesn't think he can do it with that sorry shit he showed against Marquez.

And that's all I have to say about that. (Forrest Gump had a helluva way of ending a story.)

frank very well done.your points are very difficult to disagree with i feel.like you and we are in the big minority i dont care if this fight is ever made.yes the 2 fighters arum and other folks from each side have fucked up a given or a free lunch so to speak several times.sat night and the whole month of december has given fans some terrific matchups and i feel next year there will be several more then this year.floyd-manny.thats one fight.if it dont happen boxing wont hurt that much.in fact a good year coming up overcomes anything.
myself only im more then tired of the talk on this fight.im exhausted.all of us have participated in gross overkill on this topic.mares future figghts donaires also the ward-fonch fight winner vs bute.rios against top 140 pounders.kahn and his progress etc etc .there are many things to be optimistic about.myself like you only fuck this fight and the talk about it.

Solid points all around but I still care.

I think you're overrating Ken Norton a bit and underrating JMM.

Norton's claim to fame is the Ali fights. But we all know that it wasn't the best pre-exile Ali.

JMM fought Pac in his prime and should have come away with atleast one or two wins.

Frank wrote:(note: It was "KO Boxing Mag" that really did a great job with the "Point - Counter Point" concept for superfights. I hope someone can either agree with my assessment or counter the hell out of it. Let's have some fucking fun fellas.)

Though I was disappointed in Manny's last two efforts, I'm not ready to put him on the "out to pasture list" at the moment. I'll be brutally honest and admit that a great deal of my enthusiasm for the MW - Pac fight has gone away. Never have I seen two fighters and one promoter destroy a super fight as these 3 men have, however if you live long enough you get to see everything. There are some strange occurrences and certain factors to this fight that I think I've come to understand.

(a) Pac's last performance: I heard the ESPN radio correspondent state that Marquez is Pacs "Ken Norton." Bullshit. (Ken Norton wasn't anyone's Ken Norton. Yes, he did fight effectively against Ali. He also did so against, Jimmy Young, Larry Holmes and Jerry Quarry.) Marquez is a counterpuncher with a poor defense. He's not a stylist. Problem in that fight and Manny in particular is that Manny can't decide whether he wants to be Michael Jackson (which he can't do), Barak Obama (can't do that either.) or a fighter (which he does very well.) If he picks the 3rd choice I still think he challenges MW to the fight of his life. (Point. Manny stunk up the joint against Mosley as well. However, it was apparent, at least to me, that he could've taken Shane out whenever he wished. Something's a little wrong with Manny at the moment.)

(b) Yes, Floyd and Manny are both great fighters. However, because MW is such a brilliant ring general, he doesn't have to fight great to win. He can start and stop the action at will and outbox a stronger and even faster opponent. In contrast, Manny has to fight great to win. His style demands that he attack and break the opponent down. He's not a chess player like Floyd, but his desire, guts, speed and power can set him up for a possible win if he returns to his former greatness.

(c) I've always admired Floyd's boxing brilliance, however if he's takes a fight with Manny on the premise that Pac has lost it, that's just plain dumb. My experience in this sport has shown me that one bad outing from a great fighter is not worth noting if the fighter in question knows what he did wrong. Leonard was knocked down against club fighting "Kevin Howard" just a year or so before his fight with the murderous Marvin Hagler. If MW takes this fight, he needs to look at the films of Manny's best outing, which in my opinion was his fight against Cotto. That's the Manny he just might be facing.

(d) Will this fight happen? Personally, I don't give a fuck. However, if it does, please know that Manny has taken this fight because, in his mind, he knows he can defeat MW. And mind you, he doesn't think he can do it with that sorry shit he showed against Marquez.

And that's all I have to say about that. (Forrest Gump had a helluva way of ending a story.)

ill reply to your opinions

a) i believe that it was only partially because of styles that JMM won the fight with pac. i think that mainly, we underrate JMM. he is and has always been a great fighter. he has also dominated the past few years. i dont think that pac is slowing at all, i just think that JMM made him look human because he is good.

b) i agree with you here. mayweather doesnt have to look impressive to win. he can make the fight ugly and win. and for pac, if the fight turns ugly, he has lost.

c) to tell you the truth, mayweather has always been the one to call out pac and not the other way around. i think that its mainly arum who is stopping the fight. and mayweather always comes in the ring in great shape and prepared to win so i wouldnt worry about him training for an easy fight. and one more thing, he doesnt watch tapes of fighters, he just adjusts in the ring. that is one of the main reasons why i think he wins the fight.

d) i think that the fight will eventually happen. who knows when though. even when they are both past their best, it will be a big fight.