GUESSING ON IRON BOY

I think Ivan Calderon has had a stupendous career and warrants the title great. A marvel of speed, agility, accurate counterpunching, endless stamina and a deep desire to win. On the other side he couldn't hurt a six year old girl.

But I was watching four other great 108's today and I just couldn't see Calderon being able to run and dance for twelve rounds against any of them and winning.

Michael Carbajal, Chiquita Gonzales, Jung Koo Chang and Saman Sorjaturong. Throw in Ricardo Lopez who did a little work at 108. I just can't get the thought out of my head that those guys would lose rounds to Iron Boy, but he could never dissuade them. He would be on the knife's edge every minute of the fight.He would have to be perfect...and I'm not sure that's enough. Each of those men were high intensity, hard punching, pressure oriented (except Lopez) and each was reasonably athletic and all could also box more than a little. Of course none of them had the Secretariat-quality legs or Willie Pep reflexes Calderon possessed.

The question in my mind is am I too close to the last Calderon Segura fight or even the Hugo Cazares fights where Iron Boy showed his age and vulnerability. I mean 34-35 for a flyweight is just ancient. The 30 year old Calderon who schooled the fine Alex Sanchez was an absolute ring wizard.

What say you?

with the age factor in boxing or even baseball today 34 is perhaps like 28..years ago a fighter hitting 34 was reaching his final days.same in baseball but of course there were several exceptions..calderon has compared to fighters of the past has a handfull of fights.the constant activity of fighters year in and year out takes its toll far greater then age expecialy fighting top level guys.no question modern surgery like orthoscopic stuff has corrected many a injury with huge success where before that injury was either career ending or hampered performance severly.the great tony gwyn had a few of thoses and performed with his standard of excellence for 4 more years or more instead of declining.
the advancement of vitimans and its absorbtion rate as well as far greater knowledge in nutrition to eat and stay younger today has its advantages..with that being said i feel calderon at 34 is not old..he ran into a buzz saw that was determined to cut the ring off and punch with authority ..calderons main problem is he cant keep any fighter honest.here we have him fighting agressive punchers who talent wise are his equal or close to it..in this case effective agression quality punches of intent will win out over dancing defense and tapping shots because he has nothing but his legs to keep a guy off him or honest.could he beat some of these over 12..yes.would one or more stop him..yep i think so..if it was 15 rounds then i would know so..willie pep could pop.calderon cant and thats his only downfall and it will cost him..everything else as far as attributes he has..so do the other guys in general..interesting thread.

I agree Marble

its kind of like Wlad in the current HW division, in his peak Calderon was on another level compared to his challengers

dmar5143 wrote:with the age factor in boxing or even baseball today 34 is perhaps like 28..years ago a fighter hitting 34 was reaching his final days.same in baseball but of course there were several exceptions..calderon has compared to fighters of the past has a handfull of fights.the constant activity of fighters year in and year out takes its toll far greater then age expecialy fighting top level guys.no question modern surgery like orthoscopic stuff has corrected many a injury with huge success where before that injury was either career ending or hampered performance severly.the great tony gwyn had a few of thoses and performed with his standard of excellence for 4 more years or more instead of declining.
the advancement of vitimans and its absorbtion rate as well as far greater knowledge in nutrition to eat and stay younger today has its advantages..with that being said i feel calderon at 34 is not old..he ran into a buzz saw that was determined to cut the ring off and punch with authority ..calderons main problem is he cant keep any fighter honest.here we have him fighting agressive punchers who talent wise are his equal or close to it..in this case effective agression quality punches of intent will win out over dancing defense and tapping shots because he has nothing but his legs to keep a guy off him or honest.could he beat some of these over 12..yes.would one or more stop him..yep i think so..if it was 15 rounds then i would know so..willie pep could pop.calderon cant and thats his only downfall and it will cost him..everything else as far as attributes he has..so do the other guys in general..interesting thread.

See that's what I wonder about. If he can't keep guys like that honest and they are just hunting him with no fear of what is coming back? The best comparisons I can think of are Sweet Pea and Pep. Nobody EVER just rushed those two. Why? Because both guys actually could punch when the moment absolutely required it. I never saw Calderon having that quality.

gomez1012 wrote:I agree Marble

its kind of like Wlad in the current HW division, in his peak Calderon was on another level compared to his challengers

He really was. He was like a teacher showing students THIS is how one does it.

marbleheadmaui wrote:I think Ivan Calderon has had a stupendous career and warrants the title great. A marvel of speed, agility, accurate counterpunching, endless stamina and a deep desire to win. On the other side he couldn't hurt a six year old girl.

But I was watching four other great 108's today and I just couldn't see Calderon being able to run and dance for twelve rounds against any of them and winning.

Michael Carbajal, Chiquita Gonzales, Jung Koo Chang and Saman Sorjaturong. Throw in Ricardo Lopez who did a little work at 108. I just can't get the thought out of my head that those guys would lose rounds to Iron Boy, but he could never dissuade them. He would be on the knife's edge every minute of the fight.He would have to be perfect...and I'm not sure that's enough. Each of those men were high intensity, hard punching, pressure oriented (except Lopez) and each was reasonably athletic and all could also box more than a little. Of course none of them had the Secretariat-quality legs or Willie Pep reflexes Calderon possessed.

The question in my mind is am I too close to the last Calderon Segura fight or even the Hugo Cazares fights where Iron Boy showed his age and vulnerability. I mean 34-35 for a flyweight is just ancient. The 30 year old Calderon who schooled the fine Alex Sanchez was an absolute ring wizard.

What say you?

cazares came in weighing 126 or something close to it in both fights. cazares had beaten dieppa who at the time could have been considered the man beating solis earlier. the fact that calderon beat cazares twice speaks volumes. let's not forget cazares then moved up and became a champion. a young calderon could outbox ANYBODY but then im being bias

Rum Capital wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:I think Ivan Calderon has had a stupendous career and warrants the title great. A marvel of speed, agility, accurate counterpunching, endless stamina and a deep desire to win. On the other side he couldn't hurt a six year old girl.

But I was watching four other great 108's today and I just couldn't see Calderon being able to run and dance for twelve rounds against any of them and winning.

Michael Carbajal, Chiquita Gonzales, Jung Koo Chang and Saman Sorjaturong. Throw in Ricardo Lopez who did a little work at 108. I just can't get the thought out of my head that those guys would lose rounds to Iron Boy, but he could never dissuade them. He would be on the knife's edge every minute of the fight.He would have to be perfect...and I'm not sure that's enough. Each of those men were high intensity, hard punching, pressure oriented (except Lopez) and each was reasonably athletic and all could also box more than a little. Of course none of them had the Secretariat-quality legs or Willie Pep reflexes Calderon possessed.

The question in my mind is am I too close to the last Calderon Segura fight or even the Hugo Cazares fights where Iron Boy showed his age and vulnerability. I mean 34-35 for a flyweight is just ancient. The 30 year old Calderon who schooled the fine Alex Sanchez was an absolute ring wizard.

What say you?

cazares came in weighing 126 or something close to it in both fights. cazares had beaten dieppa who at the time could have been considered the man beating solis earlier. the fact that calderon beat cazares twice speaks volumes. let's not forget cazares then moved up and became a champion. a young calderon could outbox ANYBODY but then im being bias

I don't think you are being biased. The prime Calderon was magical. I just wonder if he was magical enough for the all-time studs I'm comparing him to.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Rum Capital wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:I think Ivan Calderon has had a stupendous career and warrants the title great. A marvel of speed, agility, accurate counterpunching, endless stamina and a deep desire to win. On the other side he couldn't hurt a six year old girl.

But I was watching four other great 108's today and I just couldn't see Calderon being able to run and dance for twelve rounds against any of them and winning.

Michael Carbajal, Chiquita Gonzales, Jung Koo Chang and Saman Sorjaturong. Throw in Ricardo Lopez who did a little work at 108. I just can't get the thought out of my head that those guys would lose rounds to Iron Boy, but he could never dissuade them. He would be on the knife's edge every minute of the fight.He would have to be perfect...and I'm not sure that's enough. Each of those men were high intensity, hard punching, pressure oriented (except Lopez) and each was reasonably athletic and all could also box more than a little. Of course none of them had the Secretariat-quality legs or Willie Pep reflexes Calderon possessed.

The question in my mind is am I too close to the last Calderon Segura fight or even the Hugo Cazares fights where Iron Boy showed his age and vulnerability. I mean 34-35 for a flyweight is just ancient. The 30 year old Calderon who schooled the fine Alex Sanchez was an absolute ring wizard.

What say you?

cazares came in weighing 126 or something close to it in both fights. cazares had beaten dieppa who at the time could have been considered the man beating solis earlier. the fact that calderon beat cazares twice speaks volumes. let's not forget cazares then moved up and became a champion. a young calderon could outbox ANYBODY but then im being bias

I don't think you are being biased. The prime Calderon was magical. I just wonder if he was magical enough for the all-time studs I'm comparing him to.

well i think he could have definitely boxed against chiquita and carbajal during his prime. not taking anything from either of these guys or comparing their power to cazares power but cazares came in weighing almost as a super feather for both of their bouts. he then moved up in weight class and won betls by ko so if he survived cazares at the beginning of his downslide (his fight prior to this against barrera he almost lost) i don't see why he couldn't keep chiquita or carbajal. now finito is a complete different animal finito could not only hit but he could box also.
calderon faced several guys with good power like not only cazares but also dieppa, mako leyva, nene sanchez and daniel reyes. imo opinion segura would have never beaten a prime calderon.