MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

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MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  dmar5143 on Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:24 am

ok guys just say it.there he goes again.last nights fiasco involving trainer and fighter of the year.that means amoung the best we got today.sorry that's a joke on us boxing fans.rigo yes is a far more complete fighter than donaire.defensive genius give me a break.both fighters threw 30 punches a round.its not hard to be a defensive genius when the other guy tosses no punches and has poor aggression.total inept preparation by both donaire and his trainer made rigo look better then what he is.sorry.
lets call it the way it realy is.first of all ill bet both fighters last night weighed close to 140 pounds..lol for a 122 pound fight.thats a joke in itself.im wondering how much of a defensive genius rigo would be if he fought guys that came to force a fight.guys like duran ray mancini arron pryor.fight night they all weigh the same.how would donaire do against a slick hector Camacho or a ken bucannon or a arguello who would of pot shot him to death.or a ralph dupas...forget about pep who would be outweighed by a good dozen pounds by donaire.pep I believe would of won every second of a 15 round fight.saddler outweighed by 12 pounds would of tore both a new asshole.
guys theres a big difference in whats called a complete fighter of today vs the past and some of it a recent past.today maybe theres a handful where before there were 15-20 in most divisions.thats what you get by having catered fucking part time fighters of today.and part time trainers like Garcia with donaire..we prepared lol by talking on the phone.its a disgrace.weather you like it or not the skill levels have declined a ton.you can disagree with me but sorry im right.
years ago stillmans gym gleasons miamis 5th street gym etc etc was loaded with 15-20 top fighters doing there thing daily that it made freddies active wild card gym look vacant.yes we have some excellent trainers today and they don't spend a week to prepare one of the top 5 fighters in the world for a big fight like Garcia just did.
last night the commentaters apologized several times for the ineptness of the fighters by saying if your a boxing purist you love this fight.REALY.please stop the bs now.donaire has power and handspeed and little skill.sorry that's why he was inept and pathetic last night.is rigo a defensive genius.lol.pep locche dullio loi and others were.was rigo in there with duran mancini pryor or even Camacho to test that genius.nope.or a saddler or a dupas who would make a monkey out of him.
sorry im so disgusted with the game and the direction it has taken over the years and its getting worse.
yes I have to admit that even I on some occasion get sucked in with this PR bullshit on some fighters.yes you have for the most part part time fighters sitting on there ass for a shot at the 100 belts out there they all world champion.yep close to 100 when you consider regular champ super champ champ in recess diamond champ etc etc.
you got a top 5 fighter in the world that's inept skill wise and got beat by a guy who throws no punches with a skill level that littery hundreds had in the past eras only that punched also.
rigo is no sweet pea.he has predicable movement unlike sweet pea pep Camacho dupas bucannon Kenny lane gavilyn and countless other little guys.combine that with a part time a very part time trainer its a disgrace.2 guys close to 140 pounds fighting lol at 122.thats a disgrace also.
bare in mind one of the top 5 fighters in the world plus trainer of the year and look what they gave us.they gave us crap in its lowest form.its gonna get worse.pathetic performance by Garcia who had the fight even after 6 rounds.sorry is that the best we got.mediocrity at best.
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Re: MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  captainanddew on Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:29 am

you are right, this isn't the same. 50 years ago, many more athletes were boxers (or tried to become boxers). How many truly major sports were there then????

In some sports, like NFL, many of the best of an earlier era might not be anything today. Alot of the good to great players of the nfl would have struggled to make it today. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger. You couldn't make it as a 6 ft 240 pound lineman today. I don't begrudge those guys. They were great for their era. They would struggle to be big enough to make an nfl team today (even if they bulked up).

Boxing happens to have a different arc where it has gone downward (while most sports have gone upward in terms of skill, size, speed, etc ) I am not going to shit on because of it. There are alot of pretty good fighters. I understand they don't compare historically. I accept it and move on.




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Re: MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  Gumby on Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:13 pm

Agree and disagree. Yes, the quality and technical skills of boxers has gone down, but I think they're more athletic now than ever. Both Rigo and Donaire would be ahtletic freaks if they were thrown back in time. What's happened in boxing is a lot like what's happened recently to college basketball. A lot of raw talent that doesn't get developed properly for the most part.

The weight thing is what it is. You can't compare a guy who cuts weight to make 122 and rehydrates to 140 to 140lbers or 122lbers of the past, and Rigo's a legitimately good fighter in any era. He's fast, he can punch, and he's smart in the ring. I found nothing to fault him for in his performance. I have no idea how he would've adjusted if Donaire fought with some aggression, but that's not his fault because as he said, he did his job.

As far as Donaire goes, I hope this is a wake up call. He's coasted on his athleticism and instincts, and when he felt Rigo's power and started getting beat him to the punch (which has never happened to him), he didn't have a gameplan. It wasn't until the round he got the knockout where he actually went in with the mindset he would've needed to win which was: this guy hits as hard as me and he's just as quick as me, but I'm bigger and throw better combinations...I need to let it all hang out. He got scared and never put his foot on the pedal. He had Rigo tense through round 4 while they were feeling each other out, and then both guys went on cruise control, which was stupid for Donaire because he was losing every round. The fight would have been great if Donaire had tried to win.

It seems like he'd bought into his own hype and for him to say that he didn't study the tape on Rigo, to allow his trainer to work with him via Skype, and to bring up his injuries and try to say that he's not making excuses is just embarrassing as a professional. I hope he gets it together because he's extremely talented. I saw way too much Headaches Dirrell in his post-fight interview.
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Re: MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  hillsicc303 on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:43 pm

Ummm...Doniare is a good fighter, but I've never thought he was anything special. Anybody who thought he was some elite, P4P fighter who could transend some eras, needs their head examined.

Donaire is a product of the HBO hype machine, he just happened to be in the right place at the right time, in terms of them trying to stuff a boxing star down our throats.

I picked Donaire to win last night(just based off of pro experience), but him losing to Rigo was no surprise to me at all. I could see from a mile a way that he would eventually get out-boxed, or overpowered by fighters with superior skills in these departments.

If you really know boxing...you'd know that his accolades for FOTY were a joke. 3 of those fights were against handpicked, nobodys, and shot, old, bloated guys...

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Re: MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  dmar5143 on Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:39 pm

hillsicc good post.gumby 140 pounds fight night is 140 pounds period.example we had 2 middles put on a terrific fight at 140 lol last week.yes rios fight night weighed 161 alvardo 158..fight night robinson a natural middle weight wise was a few onces over 157 fighting maxim for the light heavy title and rehydration wasn't needed to make a phoney weight 30 hours before since weigh inn was the day of the fight.thats comparing apples to apples.to say rigo and donaire would be a atheletic freak in the eras I mentioned is comical.more fluid and atheletic then pep or sweet pea.more co ordinated and fluid like gavilyn or Camacho.yes tech wise and skill wise they and most fighters of today don't compare.rigo did fight a planed smart fight.nothing was done to throw him off that.he took what donaire gave him which was plenty.donaire coasted in the past on athletism.what athletism .please.if you said roy jones jr or ali id say yes.sweet pea yes.donaire was stiff too stiff.tossed almost zero combinations worked off no jab showed no quickness of feet to close the gap nor any punches outside 1 at a time no fluidity.thats far from athletisim and light years from being a athletic freak.to say both would be atheletic freaks in the eras of fighters I mentioned is the biggest overstatement ive heared in years.
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Re: MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  powerpuncher on Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:03 am

this fight hasnt changed my opinion of donaire at all. like most people, i thought that donaire would win, but it wasnt a huge surprise that he lost. i realized that donaire's problem is that he stays on the outside in fights waiting for a counter shot. while he waits, he gets a few good shots in here or there while winning the rounds. as i said early in the fight, rigo was making donaire come forward which is not what donaire does. he knows how to stand back and counterpunch. he doesnt know how to be the aggressive fighter. like i have always said though, donaire is a good fighter but has always been overrated which is why ive always said that mares is better. most people called me crazy for that but i stand by that more now than ever.

i do agree that donaire is not a complete fighter. he is athletically gifted. he is very quick and has good one punch power. with many fighters, he can do his thing by staying away and his opponents are usually too scared to come forward or too careless and get KO'd. rigo made donaire come forward and brought him out of his gameplan. a complete fighter, especially with donaire's power, would have been able to be the aggressor and pressure rigo.
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Re: MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  Gumby on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:38 am

dmar5143 wrote:gumby 140 pounds fight night is 140 pounds period
dmar, this is one of the things that has changed. Cutting weight is allowed and it has a physical impact on a person's body. If you cut weight to make 122, and then rehydrate to 140+, you won't be as strong as you would have been if you were allowed to weigh 140+ from the get go. That's why comparing guys who cut and rehydrate to guys who don't is comparing apples to oranges. I've gone on record plenty of times saying we should have same day weigh-ins, but we don't.

dmar5143 wrote:to say rigo and donaire would be a atheletic freak in the eras I mentioned is comical.more fluid and atheletic then pep or sweet pea.more co ordinated and fluid like gavilyn or Camacho.
You're right, they lack athletic skills that a lot of the greats had. But in terms of strength and speed, they'd be right up there in any era. Athletes have been getting stronger and faster across the board. That doesn't account for coordination, balance, fluidity, flexibility, instinct, experience, and a handful of other things that make a great athlete, but strength and speed are significant.

dmar5143 wrote:donaire coasted in the past on athletism.what athletism .please.if you said roy jones jr or ali id say yes.sweet pea yes.donaire was stiff too stiff.tossed almost zero combinations worked off no jab showed no quickness of feet to close the gap nor any punches outside 1 at a time no fluidity.thats far from athletisim and light years from being a athletic freak.to say both would be atheletic freaks in the eras of fighters I mentioned is the biggest overstatement ive heared in years


Here's Donaire's greatest hits on HBO to check him on video. He's been able to fight with his hands down and avoid taking significant punishment. To be able to avoid shots like that takes great reflexes and anticipation. He's also been able to land cleanly and consistently. That takes speed and precision. He's been able to hurt people. That takes power. So he's a guy who has great reflexes and anticipation, great speed and precision, and great power.

When you watch the tape one him, those things jump out at you. Rafa Marquez is one of the better bantamweights of the modern era. If you watch him on tape, he's not close to Donaire in terms of those things. Same with Ruben Olivares. Same with Carlos Zarate. I'm not saying Donaire's a better fighter than any of those guys, but he's definitely faster and it looks like he hits harder, so athletically he would be a freak if he went back in time.

His inability to throw combinations, work his jab or move his feet, are because he lacks skill, not athleticism. He's gotten away from combinations because he has the power to stop most guys with one or two clean shots. He doesn't work his jab because he's been able to catch and counter with hooks because of his speed. He has great foot speed, but he doesn't know how to pressure. He's in the same place Hamed was a few decades ago. I hope he tries to grow from this loss and use his few remaining years as a boxer to try and become great.
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Post  dmar5143 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:37 pm

gumby I agree totally on same day weigh inns.on the surface with the dehydration it seems your correct that maybe it has a so called weakning effect.in reality it does not.with all the super suppliments advanced vitamins and the dehydation down to a perfect science tells me different.energy and strength can be retained with thoses plus modern era peds that often go undetected.im not saying donaire but ever here of 5 hour energy drink.again the clips show zero athetism.power yes one punch only hand speed.thats not rare nor athletic.mike Tyson anyone.speed of hand with power for several shots.in this clip I see tons of flaws.avoiding shots with hands down lol realy.theres no way this guy is a athletic freak in the eras I talked about.hell Sergio Martinez in that department puts him to shame.so does ray leanord ralph dupas willie pastrano and tons of others ...this clip shows guys standing there trading and yes your gonna get hit unless to know how to slip a punch which none did once.what refexes instinct anticipation do you see.jones jr had that and sliped punches.so did floyd and Martinez.this guy don't even move his dam head.the more I watch this guy im shocked at his defensive flaws.and lack of instinct.hes nothing special unfortunetly and I like the guy.
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Re: MY GRIP.DONAIRE GARCIA IS THIS THE BEST WE GOT.

Post  Gumby on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:39 am

None of the guys you mentioned were featherweights, let alone bantams. I'll make my argument much simpler. Donaire has been significantly stronger and faster than the opponents he's faced. It's allowed him to get away with increasingly sloppy technique. This would be true if he were in the ring with opponents from any era.

If you are shocked by Donaire's defensive flaws and lack of instinct that's even more of a testament to his athletic ability because he's been able to successfully avoid taking punishment for years. It's because he's able to flinch fast enough to avoid punches and move in and out before his opponents can set up.
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