Rios vs JMM?

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Rios vs JMM?

Post  Soonermark890 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:17 pm

Ok everyone is saying that they should fight. I disagree
I think this is the worst fight for JMM to take
The reason is STYLES

The same reason that JMM gives Pac problems is his style. Rios's style is an issue for JMM

Rios is the type to overwhelm a guy with punches and he likes to smother you. This to me will be a huge issue as JMM will have problems keeping Rios at bay.

What do you guys think? I think outside of Floyd Rios is the guy I would keep JMM away from.

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  Diego408 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:38 pm

Could be similar to Marquez vs Katsidis. Just Rios will be more game. He still get his face broken apart. Rios power is good enough to make a difference though.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  koolkc107 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:40 pm

A Rios-JMM tilt will not happen, nor should it.

Rios got schooled 2 fights ago by a much inferior boxer than Marquez in Abril; and in his last fight, Brandon took almost as good as he gave from a second tier guy in Alvarado. But, now he is supposed to somehow be a threat to a master like JMM?

And what about the money? There are a few fights out there that make exponentially more than a Rios fight for Juan. WE (real boxing fans) like Rios and we all would tune in with the beer and bowls of popcorn, no doubt.

But the genpub doesn't know who Rios is and if they did would not give a rat's posterior.

Bradley, Alexander, Guerrero, Berto, Ortiz, Bailey, Matthysse and maybe even Maidana ALL make more money for JMM than a Rios fight...

...not to mention a rematch with that dude that fights outta Vegas..


Last edited by koolkc107 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  UBeeg9cats on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:41 pm

It is a huge fight. Definitely PPV where JMM makes 8 figures. The shots Rios took against Alvarado means he definitely has a chin. Can Rios smother JMM making counterpunching very difficult? That is the biggest question. Long or middle distance will let JMM dominate. The inside fighting will make it a war and I definitely give an edge to Rios in that domain. I think JMM can survive many Rios punches and make him pay to get to the inside also. I just can't imagine Bob passing up the superfight #5 for 2 good sized fights made up of Pac, JMM, Rios, and Bradley. Rios and Bradley would still do business but not on the PPV level.

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  UBeeg9cats on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:49 pm

koolkc107 wrote:A Rios-JMM tilt will not happen, nor should it.

Rios got schooled 2 fights ago by a much inferior boxer in Abril; and in his last fight, Brandon took almost as good as he gave from a second tier guy in Alvarado. But, now he is supposed to somehow be a threat to a master like JMM?

And what about the money? There are a few fights out there that make exponentially more than a Rios fight for Juan. WE (real boxing fans) like Rios and we all would tune in with the beer and bowls of popcorn, no doubt.

But the genpub doesn't know who Rios is and if they did would not give a rat's posterior.

Bradley, Alexander, Guerrero, Berto, Ortiz, Bailey, Matthysse and maybe even Maidana ALL make more money for JMM than a Rios fight...

...not to mention a rematch with that dude that fights outta Vegas..

I know you have really been wanting the Floyd fight if and now when JMM won the Pac fight but there is almost a better chance that I fight JMM. Bob is not letting one of his big money fighters fight Floyd. He didn't let Pac do it when it would have been worth 2-3 times the money that JMM can get from Floyd right now. There is virtually no demand for the the fight. There is definitely more demand for JMM to fight Pac or Rios. Golden Boy is not going let JMM fight one of their young studs either. That takes out Alexander, Guerrero, Ortiz, Matthysse and Maidana. Bailey brings no money. Berto is coming off a loss and is protected by GBP and Haymon right now. Bradley is the only one out of your list remotely possible and I think Rios makes him much more. I may be mistaken.

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  koolkc107 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:01 pm

UBeeg9cats wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:A Rios-JMM tilt will not happen, nor should it.

Rios got schooled 2 fights ago by a much inferior boxer in Abril; and in his last fight, Brandon took almost as good as he gave from a second tier guy in Alvarado. But, now he is supposed to somehow be a threat to a master like JMM?

And what about the money? There are a few fights out there that make exponentially more than a Rios fight for Juan. WE (real boxing fans) like Rios and we all would tune in with the beer and bowls of popcorn, no doubt.

But the genpub doesn't know who Rios is and if they did would not give a rat's posterior.

Bradley, Alexander, Guerrero, Berto, Ortiz, Bailey, Matthysse and maybe even Maidana ALL make more money for JMM than a Rios fight...

...not to mention a rematch with that dude that fights outta Vegas..

I know you have really been wanting the Floyd fight if and now when JMM won the Pac fight but there is almost a better chance that I fight JMM. Bob is not letting one of his big money fighters fight Floyd. He didn't let Pac do it when it would have been worth 2-3 times the money that JMM can get from Floyd right now. There is virtually no demand for the the fight. There is definitely more demand for JMM to fight Pac or Rios. Golden Boy is not going let JMM fight one of their young studs either. That takes out Alexander, Guerrero, Ortiz, Matthysse and Maidana. Bailey brings no money. Berto is coming off a loss and is protected by GBP and Haymon right now. Bradley is the only one out of your list remotely possible and I think Rios makes him much more. I may be mistaken.

Er um...JMM is not signed to TR that I am aware of. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

http://www.toprank.com/fighters

And why wouldn't GB want the money a JMM PPV can garner? They have got to think some of those young studs can equit themselves well enough to either win or become a star in a valiant loss to a future HOF who is defying time. So the 5 you named as out are definitely in play. You may have a point in Bailey, but he is a much more dangerous opponent than Rios and a bigger man than Brandon as well. Berto fought well in that loss and may now be MORE marketable than he was before the wars with Ortiz and Guerrero. Bradley, of course, would love the chance.

Rios would need more hype than any of those guys and in the end, the fight would be a rout anyway.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  Diego408 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Marquez signed with TR like last year so he can fight Pacquiao. He left GBP.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  dmar5143 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:30 pm

berto bailey LM alexander do not bring in more money at all.forget a floyd fight.it will never happen.floyd has RG then alvarez and its retirement.RG if he was a free agent dont take jmm over floyd.huge dollar differnce.
for marquez its maybe pac 5 or rios or retirement.bob will wait a few months to see what pacs moves are.retirement or 1 more marquez fight and call it a day..then if pac says no go its rios and arum can sell that fight.
yes rios could pull a upset but marquez still has a bit left to beat him also.i would not avoid that fight.thats not marquez makeup.nor nachos..unless marquez gets a 10 million dollar possibilty with rios if pac says hes retired then i see marquez doing the same.that number or close to it is the only thing that could motivate marquez.
the pushing of your body the torcher of ultimate training at almost 40 i doubt marquez is willing to go threw except for pac.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  koolkc107 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:48 pm

Diego408 wrote:Marquez signed with TR like last year so he can fight Pacquiao. He left GBP.

Yes, he signed last year for one fight, then he signed again for this last one...but is he under contract?

And sorry dmar, but they DO bring more than Rios. The only base Brandon has is guys like us who would love to see if he lands something before JMM picks him apart. But, Rios has no real base.

Alexander does. Bradley does. Berto is certainly become more popular in defeat than Rios has in his marginal victories. Guerrero is also more popular. And while Maidana and Matthysse may have the same low visibility as Rios, they are simply better fighters who are an easier sell as competitive.

And you are actually saying Floyd would take Ghost instead of a potential mega-fight rematch with Marquez? Are you actually saying he makes more with Guerrero?
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  dmar5143 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:04 pm

yep he makes more with RG because he eats alone..RG will take a 2.5 million dollar guarentee with a possible 5 million dollar payday with the backend.thats what ortiz got .marquez got 5 million to fight floyd.aint happening this time..berto still has no fan base.bradley litterly has no fan base.rios sure does.better then guys that sold less then 2000 tickets in there own back yard.bailey.no one wants to see that bore fight.alexander with paulie m and a great card did not sell out barkley center.his appeal outside st louis is very questionable.his ppn appeal zero.arum controls the strings here.forget thinking marquez is a free agent.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  Soonermark890 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:10 pm

dmar5143 wrote:yep he makes more with RG because he eats alone..RG will take a 2.5 million dollar guarentee with a possible 5 million dollar payday with the backend.thats what ortiz got .marquez got 5 million to fight floyd.aint happening this time..berto still has no fan base.bradley litterly has no fan base.rios sure does.better then guys that sold less then 2000 tickets in there own back yard.bailey.no one wants to see that bore fight.alexander with paulie m and a great card did not sell out barkley center.his appeal outside st louis is very questionable.his ppn appeal zero.arum controls the strings here.forget thinking marquez is a free agent.
Dmar you make a great point. Its not about PPV sales of the other fighter to Floyd its how little he has to pay them. He just counts on his own star power. If Floyd cared if the other fighter could sale PPV's then he would have fought Pac a long time ago instead of asking for unprecedented drug testing.

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  powerpuncher on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:57 am

koolkc107 wrote:
Diego408 wrote:Marquez signed with TR like last year so he can fight Pacquiao. He left GBP.

Yes, he signed last year for one fight, then he signed again for this last one...but is he under contract?

And sorry dmar, but they DO bring more than Rios. The only base Brandon has is guys like us who would love to see if he lands something before JMM picks him apart. But, Rios has no real base.

Alexander does. Bradley does. Berto is certainly become more popular in defeat than Rios has in his marginal victories. Guerrero is also more popular. And while Maidana and Matthysse may have the same low visibility as Rios, they are simply better fighters who are an easier sell as competitive.

And you are actually saying Floyd would take Ghost instead of a potential mega-fight rematch with Marquez? Are you actually saying he makes more with Guerrero?
none of those fighters that you named have any more of a fan base than rios does. alexander is the exception because he has st louis but no way would JMM fight alexander in st louis so that doesnt really matter. the reason the rios fight would be big is because of excitement. rios is tough enough and hits hard enough to have a legit shot at beating an aging marquez.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  koolkc107 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:43 am

It's called prizefighting for a reason, folks.

And the big money fights are not with Rios.

JMM knows this. He is at the end of his career and is not looking for slim pickings.

A Bradley fight is bigger, a Guerro fight is, a Berto fight is, and an Alexander fight is.

And they are all more competitive than a Rios fight.

dmar, love the "he eats alone' line and there is some merit in what you say.

But I have one for you...money talks!

If Floyd pays Ghost 5 million from a PPV that does 1 million buys and JMM 10 million from a PPV that does 1.5 to 1.75 (or more?) which is more lucrative to Mayweather?

The rematch IS the new megafight...and I am through arguing about it. Just watch it happen, folks.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  dmar5143 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:04 am

kool your missing a lot of points here.1.i doubt very much a marquez fight does 1.5 to 1.7 ppvs.pac is close to floyd in ppvs.the last marquez fight will not do 1.5 to 1.7 ppvs dispite the 3 fight rivalry and all the publicity talking about the fact that the fights were so close that many felt it was 3-0 either way. 2.10 million min is a upront guarentee.with the backend marquezs share would be far more then RGS.marquez would be looking for A 18-20 million dollar payday something a fifth pac fight would bring.3.floyd almost shutout jmm and a fight between 2 counterpuchers isnt going to draw the excitement of a 5th pac fight where action is expected plus the salibilty of the revenge factor on pacs part 4.with pac marquez is in a great position to get a 50-50 deal.if floyd turned down a 55-45 deal with pac in a fight that all view as perhaps the biggest ever meaning floyd wanted at least a 60-40 split or better with pac..so what would he offer marquez.maybe a 70--30 at best more like 75-25 since marquez starpower is no where near pacs.5.marquez is in the drivers seat with rios.he will ask and get a good 75-25 split so yes theres more money fighting rios.
thoses are predictable business facts and how floyd negotiates or theres no deal.
other predicable thoughts are.a jmm fight with either alexander or bailey excites no one..2.counter punchers fighting each other and one barely punches at all.
RG-jmm is a golden boy top rank match.aint gonna happen plus rg has a history of saying no to fights ..hes in the drivers seat to fight floyd.that fight for him is not only what he wants but its a fight that can establish glory for him far more then marquez.
berto again has no fan base.how many on here bitched about the 1.6 mil he made fighting rg saying way overpaid.and he was.
losing his last 2 big fights isnt a road to a much bigger payday then 1.6..
for marquez its pac 5 or rios or retirement.
the only appeal a berto-marquez fight will have is controversy.berto had peds in his system lol unknown to conte.conte claims he knows how to beat any drug test and i believe him.his clear proved that..his associate who now handles marquez also has that knowledge.so drug testing is bullshit a pr ploy.marquez now is suspect for peds unfortunetly..both sides conte and the other guy will toss charges against each other.no promoter wants this negative crap and that publicity is bad for boxing.thoses are some strong reasons why that fight is a no go..
as far as bradley goes he has no star power at all.the pac fight did under a million and it was all pac that sold it.plus bradlys business is a joke.he fucked promoter 1 on the kahn fight.he had a lawyer call bob on his behalf but it was a guy arum fucking hates.bradleys like berto.i bring zero to the table but pay me bigtime...rios has his fans.boxing folks like us like that fight.a all mexican rivalry with excite the mexcian base bigtime.
its very believable to think in marquez heart i want to retire.anotherpac fight i can get up for..rios maybe.the rest nope im retired.his expressions post fight interview reflected that a lot.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  powerpuncher on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:00 am

koolkc107 wrote:It's called prizefighting for a reason, folks.

And the big money fights are not with Rios.

JMM knows this. He is at the end of his career and is not looking for slim pickings.

A Bradley fight is bigger, a Guerro fight is, a Berto fight is, and an Alexander fight is.

And they are all more competitive than a Rios fight.

dmar, love the "he eats alone' line and there is some merit in what you say.

But I have one for you...money talks!

If Floyd pays Ghost 5 million from a PPV that does 1 million buys and JMM 10 million from a PPV that does 1.5 to 1.75 (or more?) which is more lucrative to Mayweather?

The rematch IS the new megafight...and I am through arguing about it. Just watch it happen, folks.
i still have no idea why you think that all of these other fighters are bringing in more money. if it were true then i would agree with your point, but its just not true. if anything, rios would make a more exciting fight than all of them and would be easier to promote. either way, only boxing fans would know any of these names. non boxing fans only know mayweather and pac. so, that means that to boxing fans, they would want to see the more exciting fight which is against rios.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  hillsicc303 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:14 pm

LOL... if you think Rios' style will give JMM problems, you're delusional.

Rios would get picked apart by JMM, and stopped. Let's see Rios fight the Garcia's, Mathysee's, Peterson's, Maidana's, and even Khans of the world first...

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  dmar5143 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:19 pm

hillsicc303 wrote:LOL... if you think Rios' style will give JMM problems, you're delusional.

Rios would get picked apart by JMM, and stopped. Let's see Rios fight the Garcia's, Mathysee's, Peterson's, Maidana's, and even Khans of the world first...
..i hope your not talking to me.i said rios could pull a upset but marquez has a bit left in the tank to win and marquez should not avoid that fight.thats not delusional at all.again do you have a pamflet on that kansas property.sounds better then the brooklyn bridge deal i almost made a offer on.lol.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  hillsicc303 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:24 pm

..i hope your not talking to me.i said rios could pull a upset but marquez has a bit left in the tank to win and marquez should not avoid that fight.thats not delusional at all.again do you have a pamflet on that kansas property.sounds better then the brooklyn bridge deal i almost made a offer on.lol.

My post was directed at the OP.

And I'm telling you...once you see that Kansas coastline, you'll be hooked...

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  Soonermark890 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:36 pm

hillsicc303 wrote:
..i hope your not talking to me.i said rios could pull a upset but marquez has a bit left in the tank to win and marquez should not avoid that fight.thats not delusional at all.again do you have a pamflet on that kansas property.sounds better then the brooklyn bridge deal i almost made a offer on.lol.

My post was directed at the OP.

And I'm telling you...once you see that Kansas coastline, you'll be hooked...
delusional? Because i think that a young hungry fighter that likes to overwhelm people with punches has a chance to beat up on a plodding counterpuncher that will be 40 years old at the time of the fight. Ok call me delusional until it happens. I was called crazy when i called for ward to win every round against Dawson.

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  flapanther2001 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:31 pm

Rios is a bigger, stronger, tougher version of guys that have given JMM a tough fight, even for a short while. I think he would be tough for Marquez. He hits harder than Pacquiao or Katsidis or Juan Diaz and they all had JMM on his butt or his heels. True, he is easy to hit, but the damage he inflicts would have more of an effect on JMM. Marquez would be in reverse all night. I say make the fight. I don't think, aside from Floyd, that JMM will garner any more money by fighting any of the other fighters named here. If so, it wouldn't be much more.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  powerpuncher on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:16 am

as i said before, a JMM of a few years ago picks apart rios with ease because he is way too easy to hit. a 40 year old JMM can still counter but is a bit slower so he wont connect with his counters as much and wont always be able to get those punches off. from what ive seen of JMM in his last 2 fights, he wont win that fight.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  dmar5143 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:26 pm

flapanther2001 wrote:Rios is a bigger, stronger, tougher version of guys that have given JMM a tough fight, even for a short while. I think he would be tough for Marquez. He hits harder than Pacquiao or Katsidis or Juan Diaz and they all had JMM on his butt or his heels. True, he is easy to hit, but the damage he inflicts would have more of an effect on JMM. Marquez would be in reverse all night. I say make the fight. I don't think, aside from Floyd, that JMM will garner any more money by fighting any of the other fighters named here. If so, it wouldn't be much more.
....panther you just may be right.certainly your thoughts have some merit.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  hillsicc303 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:17 am

Boxing always needs these overhyped Boogeymen...I guess Rios is just the next one of these guys. Like i said: Let's see Rios beat some of the top guys at 140 before he gets intot he ring with JMM. Rios is in a LOADED division, let's see what he does with that animal first.

I guess a lot of boxing fans just like to propel guys into the big time when they've done nothing to deserve that...

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  Gumby on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:25 pm

I don't get the hype machine behind Rios. He scraped out a win in his first fight against a guy his own size and now he's a top contender at an even higher weight? I'd like to see Rios and Ortiz if they want to put him against someone at 147.
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Re: Rios vs JMM?

Post  koolkc107 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:02 am

dmar5143 wrote:kool your missing a lot of points here.1.i doubt very much a marquez fight does 1.5 to 1.7 ppvs.pac is close to floyd in ppvs.the last marquez fight will not do 1.5 to 1.7 ppvs dispite the 3 fight rivalry and all the publicity talking about the fact that the fights were so close that many felt it was 3-0 either way. 2.10 million min is a upront guarentee.with the backend marquezs share would be far more then RGS.marquez would be looking for A 18-20 million dollar payday something a fifth pac fight would bring.3.floyd almost shutout jmm and a fight between 2 counterpuchers isnt going to draw the excitement of a 5th pac fight where action is expected plus the salibilty of the revenge factor on pacs part 4.with pac marquez is in a great position to get a 50-50 deal.if floyd turned down a 55-45 deal with pac in a fight that all view as perhaps the biggest ever meaning floyd wanted at least a 60-40 split or better with pac..so what would he offer marquez.maybe a 70--30 at best more like 75-25 since marquez starpower is no where near pacs.5.marquez is in the drivers seat with rios.he will ask and get a good 75-25 split so yes theres more money fighting rios.
thoses are predictable business facts and how floyd negotiates or theres no deal.
other predicable thoughts are.a jmm fight with either alexander or bailey excites no one..2.counter punchers fighting each other and one barely punches at all.
RG-jmm is a golden boy top rank match.aint gonna happen plus rg has a history of saying no to fights ..hes in the drivers seat to fight floyd.that fight for him is not only what he wants but its a fight that can establish glory for him far more then marquez.
berto again has no fan base.how many on here bitched about the 1.6 mil he made fighting rg saying way overpaid.and he was.
losing his last 2 big fights isnt a road to a much bigger payday then 1.6..
for marquez its pac 5 or rios or retirement.
the only appeal a berto-marquez fight will have is controversy.berto had peds in his system lol unknown to conte.conte claims he knows how to beat any drug test and i believe him.his clear proved that..his associate who now handles marquez also has that knowledge.so drug testing is bullshit a pr ploy.marquez now is suspect for peds unfortunetly..both sides conte and the other guy will toss charges against each other.no promoter wants this negative crap and that publicity is bad for boxing.thoses are some strong reasons why that fight is a no go..
as far as bradley goes he has no star power at all.the pac fight did under a million and it was all pac that sold it.plus bradlys business is a joke.he fucked promoter 1 on the kahn fight.he had a lawyer call bob on his behalf but it was a guy arum fucking hates.bradleys like berto.i bring zero to the table but pay me bigtime...rios has his fans.boxing folks like us like that fight.a all mexican rivalry with excite the mexcian base bigtime.
its very believable to think in marquez heart i want to retire.anotherpac fight i can get up for..rios maybe.the rest nope im retired.his expressions post fight interview reflected that a lot.

I beg to differ. Pac is close at times to Floyd in PPV, but not always. The fight last weekend did 1.15 million buys; compare this to the 1.05 Floyd/JMM did back in '09. Only 100,000 less buys than the 4th fight of an epic series, this for a fight that was postponed and had to be re-hyped; if that is not testimony to Floyd's edge in drawing power, I dont know what is.

Floyd is a bigger draw than Pac, and because there is no Arum to take half of everything, JMM will make more with Floyd, not less. And how is it that you can assert JMM will be looking for 18-20 million from Floyd when he just took a guaranteed 6 million from Pac? Even with the back end raising it to 8 or 9 million, you are saying Juan will ask for 2 to 3 times as much from Floyd? But here is the kicker...Floyd could probably pay him 15-20 million in a rematch PPV. JMM/Floyd II on Cinco de Mayo, perhaps in Mexico, will do 1.5 million buys minimum easily. And that is more than Arum will ever give JMM.

Stop saying a Rios fight will sell well; it won't. It will bomb as a PPV, as most casual fans either know little about him or nothing at all. And that which is known is not encouraging to someone who is contemplating the matchup. Rios is two fights removed from being absolutely schooled by a far inferior boxer than JMM. And in his last fight, he could easily have been KOed instead of getting one. How can this be sold to casual or non-fans? The answer is it cant be sold, and that is why Rios is a non-starter for Marquez and therefore such a match will never happen.

All of the alternatives- Berto, RG, Bradley, Alexander, Matthysse, Maidana- are more saleable and hypeable than a Rios fight. They are all more competitive fights and they are all more lucrative to JMM. But, we don't have to speculate. Let's wait and see what happens. If things go as you say, I will be the first one in here trumpeting how right you were.
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koolkc107

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Re: Rios vs JMM?

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