My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

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My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  powerpuncher on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:33 am

so i was thinking about his career and to me, he was an overachiever. he has fought the best throughout his career and beaten just about everybody put in front of him. he gave us some exciting comebacks at the beginning of his career when he got rocked by lesser opposition like chop chop or ricardo torres. even against margo, he tried to be tough until the loaded gloves were too much for him. he lost to pac and mayweather which isnt a bad thing. he actually gave mayweather a pretty tough fight. he was overall an exciting fighter.

cotto was a talented fighter but his talent alone wasnt going to make him what he became. if he were a protected fighter coming up, then i really dont think that he would have grown. because he was in trouble in a few fights, he learned from it. if they would have put him in against weak punchers after the chop chop fight, then i think that his legacy wouldnt be nearly what it is now. he is a good fighter that has worked hard his entire career to get to the top. i dont think that he is a HOF fighter (well he is according to the HOF rules which i disagree with) but he is a fighter ill always remember.
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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  dmar5143 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:02 am

good assesment.like you i agree hes not a hofamer in my eyes but will get in.an overachiever.perhaps but based on determination more then anything else.more then most fighters of his era he was a credit to the game.he may have one last hurrah left before saying thats it.cotto was old school maybe semi-old school for sure.that i feel is the highest compliment you can give a fighter.
i rooted for him in all his fights except trout pac and mosley.
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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  hillsicc303 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:52 am

Cotto was a good fighter, no doubt about that. He was talented, but did not have elite talent, and he did fight above his ability. He's the kind of guy that it will take a really good, to great fighter to beat him.

But Cotto was also the classic bully: If he could bully you, muscle you, and fight down hill on you...this was when he was at his best. But when guys stood up to him, whether that be through raw muscle/power(Margo, Clottey, Trout, Mosley), or just being FAR more skilled than him(Floyd/Manny), he struggled. Once you got him going backwards, or put a bit of doubt in his mind, he usually began to crumble sometimes in fights. Whenever he broke out the backpedal(like he did this past Saturday), you knew he was in some trouble.

IMO...he should not get into the HOF, but he does deserve to be in there before guys like Mosley, Gatti, or Hatton(who if he gets in destroys all credibility of the place)...

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  Soonermark890 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:22 pm

Is he a HOFer? I am not sure.
What do you guys think?

Lets look at his career.
His biggest wins
Margo- washed up
Mayorga- washed up
Clottey
Mosley
Judah
Quintana
Malignaggi
Corley
There are a few others we could name I guess.

His losses are
PAC
FMJ
Margo- We all know he cheated but.
Trout

Really it was a pretty damn good career just not sure if he really is HOF worthy.

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  boxinglawyer on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:02 pm

I give Cotto more credit than most of you. He did what I want a fighter to do. Fight the best, Prepare like a PRO, give it your best (whatever it is on that night) each time out, and CHALLENGE YOURSELF. He did all that. He resume is a damn good one, and in this day, a GREAT one. He didnt miss, skip, duck, avoid, etc. anyone. He fought em all. Sure his record has a couple losses on it. I have news for you, if RJJ fought his career like Cotto, he would have 4-5 more losses on his record. Ditto for Mayweather. I look at what a guy DID and what he ATTEMPTED more than the win loss column. Cotto, in my book, measures up in every way.

Undefeated records are EASY to hang on too if thats what matters to you. Being able to say you fought the best of your time and WON more than you LOST? Thats not easy at all.

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  Soonermark890 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:08 pm

boxinglawyer wrote: I give Cotto more credit than most of you. He did what I want a fighter to do. Fight the best, Prepare like a PRO, give it your best (whatever it is on that night) each time out, and CHALLENGE YOURSELF. He did all that. He resume is a damn good one, and in this day, a GREAT one. He didnt miss, skip, duck, avoid, etc. anyone. He fought em all. Sure his record has a couple losses on it. I have news for you, if RJJ fought his career like Cotto, he would have 4-5 more losses on his record. Ditto for Mayweather. I look at what a guy DID and what he ATTEMPTED more than the win loss column. Cotto, in my book, measures up in every way.

Undefeated records are EASY to hang on too if thats what matters to you. Being able to say you fought the best of your time and WON more than you LOST? Thats not easy at all.
I agree. I love Cotto. I think he is a class act I am just on the fence on his HOF status. But I am a lot tougher on HOF than most people are. I am one of the ones who wouldnt have voted for Mike Tyson.

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  captainanddew on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:26 am

Lawyer isn't the only guy that thinks alot of Cotto. When he does get inducted into the hall, I definitely will try to make it up there.

He fought everyone. With handspeed that wasn't that good and a chin that wasn't that good. he got the most out of his abilities. Contrast that with some of those that are truly gifted (like RJJ as lawyer alluded to, or Floyd).

Floyd "retired" at the time that Cotto, Margarito, PW, etc... were at 147. He waited until Cotto had taken a beating (likely from loaded gloves), Margarito had got his chin dented, PW had moved up, etc... then he comes back.

The problem with Floyd wasn't that there wasn't big fights for him (or that he was bored). It is that the logical fights at that time involved rather tough outs. So he decided to take a break. Why in the hell would you fight Cotto, Cheato, PW, etc...

Cotto wasn't like that. He went for tough outs. He got by many of them, failed against others. But he fought the best.

The Clottey fight. The cut was from an accidental headbutt. Cotto scored the jab knockdown in round 1. He could have let them stop it sometime after 4 rounds and it would have gone to the scorecards. But he didn't.

We can rip cotto for his backpedaling and movement at times, but he got more out of his talent than many of the guys we like to talk about.


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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  UBeeg9cats on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:57 am

I am newer to boxing but I have thought about this a lot. I think he deserves to get in but he would have had a much better chance if he had gotten the lineal title by defeating Cintron a year+ ago. It was the logical fight at the time in my opinion.

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  powerpuncher on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:33 am

i do agree 100% that cotto fought the best competition he could have which is more than pretty much anybody can say now other than a few people like ward, froch, mares, etc. but to say that mayweather would have lost a few times fighting the caliber of guys that cotto fought is laughable. their resumes are pretty similar in my opinion. im not saying that mayweather fought all of the best opponents all of the time but he has taken some tough fights and has won. if they switched resumes, their careers would have probably been about the same as they are now.
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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  hillsicc303 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:43 am

I give Cotto more credit than most of you. He did what I want a fighter to do. Fight the best, Prepare like a PRO, give it your best (whatever it is on that night) each time out, and CHALLENGE YOURSELF. He did all that. He resume is a damn good one, and in this day, a GREAT one. He didnt miss, skip, duck, avoid, etc. anyone. He fought em all. Sure his record has a couple losses on it. I have news for you, if RJJ fought his career like Cotto, he would have 4-5 more losses on his record. Ditto for Mayweather. I look at what a guy DID and what he ATTEMPTED more than the win loss column. Cotto, in my book, measures up in every way.

Undefeated records are EASY to hang on too if thats what matters to you. Being able to say you fought the best of your time and WON more than you LOST? Thats not easy at all.

I have to disagree.

Who in the world would have given Floyd or RJJ(in his prime) 4 or 5 losses?

Floyd's career above 135 leaves some room for debate, but his wins over Corrales, Castillo, and defeating Genero Hernandez at the age of 21 or 22, trump anything Cotto has done in his career.

And if you think at any point in Cotto's career that he stood a chance against Floyd, you're seriously delusional. And remember...Floyd was not retired at the time he wanted to fight Cotto, Bob Arum(who promoted both at the time) didn't want Cotto anywhere near Floyd. He even said this himself.

Cotto's best wins were over Zab(who Floyd, Tszyu, and even Baldi even beat) and Shame(who was on the decline). I may have missed something, but Cotto never fought PW or Cintron. And I remember people on various different message boards justifying this saying "it was just a bad stylistic match-up" for Cotto.

And it's good that he fought in some big fights, but you still have to win them. The first Margo fight was a big fight in the world of boxing, and loaded gloves or not, Cotto got stopped.

Ask yourself this: Could Cotto, as a Welterweight, gone up to 154 and beat that version of Oscar? The consensus would be HELL NO!!!

You may like one guy more than another guy, and that's all fine and dandy. But you really have to try to look at what each guy has really done, in terms of putting his career over another guy and HOF consideration...

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  Frank on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:21 pm

boxinglawyer wrote: I give Cotto more credit than most of you. He did what I want a fighter to do. Fight the best, Prepare like a PRO, give it your best (whatever it is on that night) each time out, and CHALLENGE YOURSELF. He did all that. He resume is a damn good one, and in this day, a GREAT one. He didnt miss, skip, duck, avoid, etc. anyone. He fought em all. Sure his record has a couple losses on it. I have news for you, if RJJ fought his career like Cotto, he would have 4-5 more losses on his record. Ditto for Mayweather. I look at what a guy DID and what he ATTEMPTED more than the win loss column. Cotto, in my book, measures up in every way.

Undefeated records are EASY to hang on too if thats what matters to you. Being able to say you fought the best of your time and WON more than you LOST? Thats not easy at all.
That says it all in a nutshell. The only thing I'll add is that Cotto never ducked anyone, however there were those who ducked him.

As far as todays boxers are concerned, I'd put Cotto in the hall. It's a very close call, but I lean towards letting him in.

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  boxinglawyer on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:27 pm


I have to disagree.

Who in the world would have given Floyd or RJJ(in his prime) 4 or 5 losses?

You missed the point. Floyd didnt fight the best of the best AT thier best his whole career, but he came closer than RJJ did. Still, if Cotto were in Floyds body, we would have seen PBF vs Margarito, PW, etc.
For his part, RJJ spent more time ducking, dodging, evading, missing, etc. the REAL fighters and chased trinkets instead of challenges. I always said he would regret it later in his career, and I think history has borne that out. If Cotto were in RJJ's body we would have seen RJJ vs DM, Frankie Liles, Benn, Eubank, Reid, Calzaghe, Jirov etc. etc.

Cotto ducked, dodged, missed, evaded nobody. He fought the best of the best of his time without hesitation or hyperbole. He just laced em up and went to it. Its why I dont think he will wind up like a lot of guys who just cant let it go. He did everything he could in his career, he can look back with satisfaction and pride, with no unanswered questions or challenges to haunt him.




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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  Soonermark890 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:49 pm

hillsicc303 wrote:
I give Cotto more credit than most of you. He did what I want a fighter to do. Fight the best, Prepare like a PRO, give it your best (whatever it is on that night) each time out, and CHALLENGE YOURSELF. He did all that. He resume is a damn good one, and in this day, a GREAT one. He didnt miss, skip, duck, avoid, etc. anyone. He fought em all. Sure his record has a couple losses on it. I have news for you, if RJJ fought his career like Cotto, he would have 4-5 more losses on his record. Ditto for Mayweather. I look at what a guy DID and what he ATTEMPTED more than the win loss column. Cotto, in my book, measures up in every way.

Undefeated records are EASY to hang on too if thats what matters to you. Being able to say you fought the best of your time and WON more than you LOST? Thats not easy at all.

I have to disagree.

Who in the world would have given Floyd or RJJ(in his prime) 4 or 5 losses?

Floyd's career above 135 leaves some room for debate, but his wins over Corrales, Castillo, and defeating Genero Hernandez at the age of 21 or 22, trump anything Cotto has done in his career.

And if you think at any point in Cotto's career that he stood a chance against Floyd, you're seriously delusional. And remember...Floyd was not retired at the time he wanted to fight Cotto, Bob Arum(who promoted both at the time) didn't want Cotto anywhere near Floyd. He even said this himself.

Cotto's best wins were over Zab(who Floyd, Tszyu, and even Baldi even beat) and Shame(who was on the decline). I may have missed something, but Cotto never fought PW or Cintron. And I remember people on various different message boards justifying this saying "it was just a bad stylistic match-up" for Cotto.

And it's good that he fought in some big fights, but you still have to win them. The first Margo fight was a big fight in the world of boxing, and loaded gloves or not, Cotto got stopped.

Ask yourself this: Could Cotto, as a Welterweight, gone up to 154 and beat that version of Oscar? The consensus would be HELL NO!!!

You may like one guy more than another guy, and that's all fine and dandy. But you really have to try to look at what each guy has really done, in terms of putting his career over another guy and HOF consideration...
Probably should have left that one out. He beat Floyd and Floyd got a gift.

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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  Diego408 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:57 am

Cotto was a B+ level fighter. I think he was a very good fighter from 140 to 147. However, at 154 he didn’t have the physical ability to be elite, and it’s the reason why a solid jr middleweight fighter like Trout beat him. Cotto is stubby at this weight class; he’s not very tall, didn’t have great speed or a lot of power and wasn’t as strong as the fighters at 154. His problem at 154 was that he was undersized, and was too lazy to make 147. Welterweight is his best weight class. I think he can beat most fighters there besides Pacquiao, Mayweather and maybe not even Guerrero. Cotto is still a pretty damn good fighter, and he isn’t passed his prime. Cotto's problem right now is he’s not in the right weight class.

On Cottos career, it was very good. He beat a lot of fighters that would become strap holders, were former strap holders or are current strap holders like Bazan, Malignaggi, N'dou, Bailey, Maussa, Ricardo Torres, Mosley, Clottey, Judah, Foreman, Quintana and washed up guys like 1 eyed Margarito and that bum Mayorga (which didn’t mean shit). I know holding a belt now a day’s isn’t highly viewed as it was in the old days, but it does take a decent fighter to at least win a championship IMO. Cotto had a very solid resume and is still going to continue his career. Nothing in his post fight interview indicated that he was going to retire. He even thought he won the fight against Trout lol

Cotto is an entertaining fighter. I hope he faces Guerrero, Angulo, Kirkland and Canelo in the near fututre.
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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  powerpuncher on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:09 am

Diego408 wrote:Cotto was a B+ level fighter. I think he was a very good fighter from 140 to 147. However, at 154 he didn’t have the physical ability to be elite, and it’s the reason why a solid jr middleweight fighter like Trout beat him. Cotto is stubby at this weight class; he’s not very tall, didn’t have great speed or a lot of power and wasn’t as strong as the fighters at 154. His problem at 154 was that he was undersized, and was too lazy to make 147. Welterweight is his best weight class. I think he can beat most fighters there besides Pacquiao, Mayweather and maybe not even Guerrero. Cotto is still a pretty damn good fighter, and he isn’t passed his prime. Cotto's problem right now is he’s not in the right weight class.

On Cottos career, it was very good. He beat a lot of fighters that would become strap holders, were former strap holders or are current strap holders like Bazan, Malignaggi, N'dou, Bailey, Maussa, Ricardo Torres, Mosley, Clottey, Judah, Foreman, Quintana and washed up guys like 1 eyed Margarito and that bum Mayorga (which didn’t mean shit). I know holding a belt now a day’s isn’t highly viewed as it was in the old days, but it does take a decent fighter to at least win a championship IMO. Cotto had a very solid resume and is still going to continue his career. Nothing in his post fight interview indicated that he was going to retire. He even thought he won the fight against Trout lol

Cotto is an entertaining fighter. I hope he faces Guerrero, Angulo, Kirkland and Canelo in the near fututre.
ive also thought that he should move back down to welter. he definitely isnt too big for the weight class. i think that he could produce some good fights with some people in that division.
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Re: My thoughts of Miguel Cotto's career

Post  hillsicc303 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Probably should have left that one out. He beat Floyd and Floyd got a gift.

First fight, yeah, maybe. Second fight Floyd won easily...

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