Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  koolkc107 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:27 pm

Not gonna argue against logic, Capn & PowerP.

No doubt Garcia-Matthysse, or Alvarado, or Rios in the mix make for some potentially hellacious fights. And yes, there are other fights at 140 that are equally attractive for a fan.

The problem is, not any of these fights that have us salivating as boxing fans are as lucrative as fights against guys in the next weight class.

And I am not just talking about the golden unicorns embodied in Pac or Floyd.

Which fight at 140 does better money that a Garcia tilt with Victor Ortiz? Timothy Bradley? How about JMM at 147? Or even the Ghost?

The fights we all want to see may be at 140, but the money is slightly north.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  dmar5143 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:40 pm

sorry guys none of this makes sence.a guy just establishing himself as a elite 140 pounder and now we want him to move up.why.isnt that a thing several on here claimed is wrong.yes a rios fight is bigger money then ortiz or bradley who cant sell tickets.the ghost.why.hes looking for the big payday if he beats berto not fighting a smaller guy since the ghost wants to fight the 147 pound guys..floyd or pac if not alexander.jmm has to win before talk ing about him contining a career.he gets beat its retirement after a bigscore.a kahn rematch a rios fight a lm fight are just a few at 140.zab maybe also.
let the top 147 pounders fight each other.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  koolkc107 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:36 pm

dmar5143 wrote:sorry guys none of this makes sence.a guy just establishing himself as a elite 140 pounder and now we want him to move up.why.isnt that a thing several on here claimed is wrong.yes a rios fight is bigger money then ortiz or bradley who cant sell tickets.the ghost.why.hes looking for the big payday if he beats berto not fighting a smaller guy since the ghost wants to fight the 147 pound guys..floyd or pac if not alexander.jmm has to win before talk ing about him contining a career.he gets beat its retirement after a bigscore.a kahn rematch a rios fight a lm fight are just a few at 140.zab maybe also.
let the top 147 pounders fight each other.

Gotta disagree.

Rios is not a bigger money fight than Bradley (who, like it or not, is more more hype-able because of his "victory" over Pac).

Matthysse is not a bigger money fight than Ortiz, no way Lucas fills more seats than Victor.

Both JMM and Ghost are also bigger fights, but I like your logic as far as those two so I wont argue them further.

Look, we ALL want to see barn burners like Garcia/Matthysse or Garcia/Rios. I just don't think it is very likely, given the money picture. We will see if I am right...

BTW, I will go on record right now in saying I favor Garcia in both those fights. Danny bangs as hard as either and has more skill than both.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  powerpuncher on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:36 am

koolkc107 wrote:
dmar5143 wrote:sorry guys none of this makes sence.a guy just establishing himself as a elite 140 pounder and now we want him to move up.why.isnt that a thing several on here claimed is wrong.yes a rios fight is bigger money then ortiz or bradley who cant sell tickets.the ghost.why.hes looking for the big payday if he beats berto not fighting a smaller guy since the ghost wants to fight the 147 pound guys..floyd or pac if not alexander.jmm has to win before talk ing about him contining a career.he gets beat its retirement after a bigscore.a kahn rematch a rios fight a lm fight are just a few at 140.zab maybe also.
let the top 147 pounders fight each other.

Gotta disagree.

Rios is not a bigger money fight than Bradley (who, like it or not, is more more hype-able because of his "victory" over Pac).

Matthysse is not a bigger money fight than Ortiz, no way Lucas fills more seats than Victor.

Both JMM and Ghost are also bigger fights, but I like your logic as far as those two so I wont argue them further.

Look, we ALL want to see barn burners like Garcia/Matthysse or Garcia/Rios. I just don't think it is very likely, given the money picture. We will see if I am right...

BTW, I will go on record right now in saying I favor Garcia in both those fights. Danny bangs as hard as either and has more skill than both.
rios is has been getting quite a bit of hype for a while so im assuming that a garcia-rios fight would be pretty big. matthysse is one of the best fighters in boxing right now that doesnt have a big name at all. so i agree with you there with the money situation.

bradley would bring in money, ortiz is fading fast so i still think a rios fight would definitely be bigger, nobody really cares about guerrero. that fight would hardly sell. JMM would be a pretty big fight if he beats pac or at least looks pretty good in the fight.

so overall, i really dont think that moving up is a better option. as in terms of money, they are about equal (remember that JMM is not a welterweight by any means so that fight would happen at 140). garcia is young and doesnt need to fight pac or mayweather right now. he really isnt that great anyways. he is a good fighter but the khan fight kind of made him seem better than he is. remember that khan was outboxing him the first few rounds. again, i think that garcia is a good fighter, but is nowhere near great at the moment. there is no need for him to move up to welterweight. he has good fights at 140 that will establish him as a top fighter in the sport.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  dmar5143 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:06 am

PP ill agree on your thoughts except for the bradley fight.garcia i feel will make as much money fighting others.the reason is the bradley fight is not a ppv fight that will do even modest business.its a hbo-showtime fight and i doubt they will pay 3 or 4 million for that fight.what they do pay most of it will be demanded by bradley a 60-40 or more type of deal or theres no fight.again like you say theres no reason to go to welter for him..step up in weight for whats viewed as a money fight then why not alvarez..hey he just fought a 140 pounder did he not..seriously yes that fight is foolish and so is steping up at this time.
no garcia isnt a great fighter nor is anyone else like bradley ortiz the ghost alexander or any name outside pac or floyd.and all of them never will be great.
garcia is now being recognized as a established good fighter at 140.rios is already on the short list for pac providing he wins over jmm.i fact i think he may be the leading contender for that fight.next may be berto if he wins his next fight.
garcia i feel gains nothing by moving up.there are a few good 1 million dollar plus fights for him at 140.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  koolkc107 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:13 am

Yes, there are million dollar paydays for him at 140.

But the multi-million dollar paydays are at 147.

It is not just about who Garcia wants to fight; it is also about who wants to fight Danny who can ALSO guarantee big money.

That is not Rios, who is popular with real fans but not much else. I means his biggest claim to fame with casual fans is probably when he mocked Roach in the 24/7 prior to the 'Cheato/Pac fight.

That is damn sure not Matthysse, who is less known than Rios.

Both Bradley and Ortiz, on the other hand, can fill seats in Cali; and with the right hype can probably fill some in Vegas. I don't see the same ability in Rios and Lucas.

We also have to understand that Garcia may be very attractive to a Bradley or a Pac or Floyd. They may see him as an opponent folks will consider dangerous, while they themselves do not.

As far as a JMM/Garcia fight having to be at 140...again, that is where we all would want to see it, but that doesn't mean that is what will happen. Marquez may decide on a catchweight simply to avoid having to go all the way down to the jr welter limit- he is getting older and the weight has to be harder to make even if it is doable.

Check out this article. I makes some of the same arguments seen in this thread.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brandon-rios-viable-opponent-manny-pacquiao-fan-view-163300461--box.html
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  dmar5143 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:45 pm

sorry kool theres no evidence bradley can fill seats in california or anywhere else for that matter.nor any evidence that ortiz or bradley can deliver garcia a 3 million dollar payday.or a 2 million dollar plus one with bradley getting 3 million.no where is that a 5 million dollar fight.any bradley fight that actualy sold tickets over 2500 or so was done because of the other fighter.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  dmar5143 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:45 pm

actualy all this talk is irrelevent of course.ring magazines net site says golden boy is targeting garcia to fight again on jan 19th at the barclay center.shaffer stated its one of two fighters that he will not name that there in talks with.a week or so before that he said zab judah was one that they could be interested in.i think zabs one of them.anyway glad to see garcia back in just 3 months.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  flapanther2001 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:52 pm

Judah only makes sense because he can draw there.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  powerpuncher on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:19 am

if its in 3 months then im 100% alright with zab. as i always say, if you are an active fighter (fight 4 times a year), i dont mind you taking some easier fights. if you are inactive (1 or 2 fights a year), every fight should be a big fight.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  koolkc107 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:46 am

dmar5143 wrote:actualy all this talk is irrelevent of course.ring magazines net site says golden boy is targeting garcia to fight again on jan 19th at the barclay center.shaffer stated its one of two fighters that he will not name that there in talks with.a week or so before that he said zab judah was one that they could be interested in.i think zabs one of them.anyway glad to see garcia back in just 3 months.

Exactly, dmar.

Don't you see?

Garcia is going to take a "safe" fight in division with a guy like Zab or even a Funeka or Provodnikov. He has a year for any mandatory if there is one.

He is going to go the safe route and then he is going wait for Pac, Floyd, Bradley, Victor or even Devon to call.

The better money is at 147.

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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

Post  dmar5143 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:34 pm

ok kool lets get realistic here.floyd isnt going to fight garcia.bigger paydays like alvarez and a cotto rematch are much more realistic and i will not be shocked at all if its alvarez in may.bradley and pac are a no go since its top rank vs golden boy..now maidana and LM are a excellent possibilty since there with golden boy..now a top rank rios fight ill also rule out because ill bet hes the first choice for pac if he wins..zab isnt a safe fight by anymeans.a less dangerous fighter then a few others yes of course.
so since your talking like a promoter for the sake of disgussion how much would you pay alexander and garcia to fight.where would you hold it and of course that fight needs a undercard.how much will you spend on the undercard..lets say top rank goes along for bradley.again the same questions.
the floyd -alvarez fight has a real chance of doing 2 to 2.5 million ppvs.that alone blows a garcia fight out the window..a pac -rios fight is far more desireable to top rank and i feel also a majority of the fans.a solid inhouse fight over one thats not.so blow the pac fight out the window.
how much would you pay ortiz vs garcia.and the undercard.dispite your claims matthesse is by now well known by hardcore and causual boxing fans.hes had enough exposure thats possitive unlike ortiz.its thoses fans a promoter keeps in mind.there the core of success.theres no demand or excitement for ortiz or garcia alexander or bradley amoung the general public so dont rely on a ton of support there.
the smart business aspect of promoting has to be a foremost reason to make a fight.the same money is avalible to garcia at 140 as there is at 147.its not double as your implying.
the guy just won the ring belt and now we want him to vacate it and leave the division with a bunch of abc trinkets.
i dont believe ortiz has the excitement that you claim.a guy who was smiling saying bro after his performance of disgrace and stupity in the floyd fight and a guy who quit twice under fire.a kahn rematch will do better especialy if they split the uk money from tv ...
let the 147 pounders do something thats getting rare.fight each other.
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Re: Forget about Garcia vs Matthyse

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