What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

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What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  Frank on Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:31 am

The fight between Pac and MW is fast approaching "senior tour status." My enthusiasm for the fight was based on finding out who the best fighter was between the two warriors in question. Once they're past their primes, the fight becomes irrelevant.

On the brighter side, sometimes fighters have one last fight in their blood before they become shot. Pac's passion for fighting should return him to his past form for one night against MW. Right now, Manny is doing the worst thing he could possibly do in preparing for a MW fight, fighting Juan Marquez.

On the other hand, Mayweather is no longer the Floyd of old. He nose was busted against Cotto and his defense seems to be developing a few holes in it’s once air tight armor.

A fight that was once the most exciting in the sport has become a crap shoot. Will these fighters do what Ali did against Foreman, what Frazier did in his 3rd fight with Ali or on a lesser scale, what Michael Dokes did against Holyfield? Will they shock us by having one last great effort that they were saving for each other, or will we see more boring, overhyped bullshit from these two? I don't know. I will wait like everyone else.

For the first time in a while, I think this fight will come off. The question now is, what fight will come off?

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  dmar5143 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:36 pm

if the fight does come about we will see a decent fight.it cannot possibly be overhyped since its been at that stage now for 3 years.3 years ago pac i believe would of won for all the reasons boxing lawyer gave and one more.will.that will is becoming complacent..floyds faults or weakness has always been there.oscar showed those but did not take advantage of fully.ortiz did also but was both stupid and inpatient.cotto did also but threw less punches then he should have.3 years ago pac would of not been gulity of thoses things..today who knows.
both fighters are far from washed but.both are capable of puting on a good fight.both have slipped a little but still are in there peak but a declining peak.think of a bell shaped curve as a peak then visualize a line going downword but still in that bell shape thing.
3 years ago theres no doubt in my mind pac kos floyd rounds 9-11.again for the reasons BL gave.today the last several fights pacs lunging more.he rarely fights at angles coming in.the speed and combos are still there but in a less impressive way.
i view the first 3 rounds as boring.pac cautious fighting a tactical fight thus blowing the first 3 rounds.he steps it up but what is lacking are the angles the non lunging the combos in bunches.floyds legs contrary to other thoughts are not gone.he can move when needed.its reflexces a step back or two the side that he will do best.this time unless proven otherwise he beats pac and after 6 rounds the fights not close.
age today is a number that martinez has shown and bo hop also.floyd hasnt fought a heavy schudle nor been in wars.thats what ages you.pac has been in a few wars.both are and will be in awsome condition.this will not be a great fight unless pac does what he did a few years ago.angles punches from differnt positions etc etc.hes fallen into bad habits and floyd has not.unless corrected thats the differnce in the fight.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  dmar5143 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:11 pm

i guess im going against my own position which is the same as what nigel collins more or less said today..im tired of the talk on this fight so lets say nothing untill they actualy sign.nigel is right.sorry nigel i messed up.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  Soonermark890 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:38 pm

Who knows. Like Dmar said a few years ago I was certain that Pac beats Floyd. Today I am not sure.

What we know is that Pac has not concentrated on boxing like he should in a long time. I think the excitement for the sport has left him. It really would take a mega fight to reignite that fire.

Floyd on the other hand is not the same Floyd he once was. I really think he has slowed down. Both in hand-speed and in his legs.

I have to think that a faster Pac will be able to hit and hurt Floyd during their fight but the question to me is now will he be able to do it enough? That I am not sure about. Its sad because no matter what happens we will always say "What if?"

My prediction in this fight is a close fight that could go either way based on what the judge likes more aggressiveness or the defensive waist nothing style.

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  koolkc107 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:41 pm

Gotta disagree, fellas.

Doesn't matter when they fought- 6 years ago, 3 years ago, last year.

Doesn't matter when they fight- this year, next year, doomsday.

Floyd will always boatrace Pac.

The only chance the Pinoy Punisher ever had against Floyd is a puncher's chance...and since he doesn't have one punch power (unless your name is Ricky Hatton) that was and is a slim chance indeed.

You watched Morales dismantle Pac; You watched JMM fight him 3 times, with some thinking he won all three (personally, I have it 1st fight draw, 2nd fight Pac by a point, 3rd fight JMM by a comfortable margin).

Yet, you so-called experts can't see Floyd beating the tar out of Manny?

Yes, those are different fighter's from Floyd, but some things are similar- the counters, the technical expertise, the chin...and Floyd trumps both Morales and JMM in all those areas and more.

Yet, you fools actually believe Pac ever had a chance against Floyd.

Stop thinking with your hearts, fellas.

Yes, one guy has a good image while one has a not so good image. But folks who know realize they are largely just that- images. Both men are really, really flawed with makes them as human as the rest of us.

But just because you personally like someone doesn't mean you let that affection tinge what should be otherwise sound judgement.

None of you can explain why physically smaller, technically inferior fighter like Morales and JMM can whip Pac, yet Floyd cannot.

Go ahead, try.

I dare you...but come correct, I am in smackdown mode today.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  dmar5143 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:17 pm

hopefully im speaking for the forum but certainly for myself.its in bad taste calling guys who posted on this forum as fools.yes fools and then so called experts implying directly that we actualy dont know what we are talking about ..or calling anyone a fool who thought that pac actualy could of won a fight a few years ago whether they posted in this thread or not.
boxing lawyer gave some good reasons why pac could of possibly won a fight against floyd 3 years ago.there also was for 2-2n and a half years a much improved far more versitle pac then the one you described in that morales fight or the first two marquez fights.he may of now reversed himself and went back to the pac of thoses fights but for 5 or 6 fights he was muched improved and thats the pac i said could of had a excellent chance of wining.i also stated the pac of the last 2 fights or implied that will lose..
all of us including you one time or another have had thoughts about a fighter that we visualize as the fighter he once was and not who he is now.that yes can cloud ones judgement.in this thread i see no evidence of that at all.even sooner who is extremly loyal to his fighters said theres doubt.
lets not turn this forum into a pac-floyd type of thing please.lets not turn it into insults for no reason and being in a smackdown mood is no reason.
your not going to change anyones mind on there thoughts who could of won or would of won a few years ago and visa versa.if and its still a if about that fight.if it happens i think a majority of guys here will feel floyd will be the favorite and will win.myself included and im a pac fan and hate floyds guts.
lets not call thoses that express a valid sound opinion a fool.yes i take that personal.
maybe others do also.that i dont know for ill speak for myself.again lets not turn the forum into a pac -floyd type of thing.this fantasy fight and its just that now on who would win in sucha fight and such a year or certain years has been beat to death .its been talked up more then any fight ive ever heared about real or fantasy.everyone has heared in detail all the reasons valid or not on who would win.no one is going to add anything new.no one.
when and if this fight comes down we will be talking about 2 fighters that are different then they were before.theres no doubt in my mind on that.
all of us again have heared it all on this fight.theres nothing else to talk about.if it does come down ill pick at that time who i think has the best chance to win.i wont add reasons because all of them have been said a million times already..again please lets have passion but also respect.ok.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  Soonermark890 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:35 pm

I was going to comment but I think Dmar covered it. Like he said its been covered a thousand times for both sides.

Floyd has more skill and defense
PAC is faster and has more power

It would have been nice to see. Oh well the what if took that one.

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  captainanddew on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:10 pm

1-
No offense Kool, but it is trollish to call anyone who has an opinion that differs from yours "a fool", and "you are in smackdown mode".

I would have agreed with something along the lines of:

"I disagree with those that feel that Pac ever had a high chance of winning. I understand that there are many Pac fans that had faith in his substantial abilities, but styles make fights. Floyd has an uncanny ability to control the distance and pace of a fight. Pac will have to take great risks to get within range. In doing so, he will get pot shot by Mayweather's crisp shots. While Floyd isn't a huge puncher, he hits hard enough to keep Pac at bay. In addition, Floyd's greatest strength is his ability to adapt. When Pac begins to anticipate a Floyd jab, the quick lead left hook will be coming instead. Pac's biggest weakness is his mind. Force him to think in the ring and he looks a little lost. etc..........."

2-Pac isn't a 1 punch KO artist in general, but he carries decent power to 147. It is likely that he hits harder than Chop Chop Corley and the version of Shane Mosley that Mayweather faced. Floyd has been buzzed in fights before, and it isn't out of the question for Pac to have landed a shot early that hurt him.

3-Smackdown mode. Calling people names, declaring that you are right about something, others are wrong about something, and state that those that disagree with you are fools, is the kind of reasoning I hear from kids when I pick my son up from school. Those kids are 5 and 6.

At the very least if you want to go into smackdown mode, please provide coherent, logical, and persuasive arguments (while having respect for others).


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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  NJBeatdown86 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:38 pm

I've always believed that Floyd would win. A few years ago I thought Manny would could catch Floyd off-guard with that insane speed, but that was his only real chance. That insane speed has slown down dramatically, it was especially evident in the fight with Bradley. Just a few years ago, Bradley would have been beaten down David Diaz-style.

It's true that Floyd has slown down as well, but he has the skill set to adjust. Manny just doesn't. Who knows, anything could happen, but we'll always be asking "What If" after it happens (and lets just hope it ever happens).
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  UBeeg9cats on Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:26 pm

Being that Pac is officially 2-0-1 in JMM fights and 2-1 in Morales fights, I am not sure floating their names like they destroyed Pac is the right thing to do. Morales won 7 rounds in the first fight so it wasn't a wash that some people like to say. I have always picked Floyd and right now have it not being close but I could see Pac getting the win. Obviously, Floyd could see that too at one point because he missed out on a $50 mil+ payday when the fight was at its peak. Floyd and Manny have both fought selective opponents so it stands to rationale that Money would've taken the biggest fight against a supposedly easy fight against a flawed fighter.

I look no further than the Mayweather-Judah fight. Judah fought him even for the early rounds and even got what should've been a KD against him. Manny is a fast, powerful southpaw like Judah but with odd, unpredictable punch angles, 1000x mental toughness, and a better corner. Floyd has also slowed down because of his legs. Both fighters' fans try to come up with excuses why the recent performances don't measure up but most people realize that Father Time is truly undefeated with no questionable decisions. IF, and it is an if that I don't believe, Sooner is right that a good chunk of Manny's recent problems have been lack of fire, he could easily get back to throwing enough punches to hang with Floyd and score a surprise KD.

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  powerpuncher on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:47 pm

i agree with frank that this fight has lost a lot of hype for me because both fighters are on the decline and it angers me that the fight didnt happen at that time because of my pride issue of being 99% sure that floyd wins 3 years ago (the 1% is the small chance that pac could land something big and somehow stop mayweather). now, as dmar said, most think that floyd wins now because pac isnt as good but used to think that pac would win. now that question will never be answered. i just wanted to prove to everyone that i was right! is that so wrong? Very Happy

but i will go to my grave stating that pac did not significantly get better as he moved up in weight, he just fought better picked opponents. he fought JMM 3 times and the fights were all spaced quite a few years after each other. every one of those fights were close. if pac had dramastically improved like everybody had said, he should have easily beaten JMM at least one of those times. they were all close because of the fact that he never really improved that much. i guarantee that during his "prime" where everybody was thinking he was unstoppable, that if he went back down even to 135, morales would have probably still beaten him or it would have at least been close. good match making made it seem like pac improved much more than he actually did. remember that everybody still thought that pac was on top of the world when he fought JMM for the 3rd time and was supposed to destroy him. is it a coincidence that he just happened to really decline in that fight? or was he just fighting a fighter that he had trouble with?

the fighters that floyd has had more trouble with didnt have a style like pac. they were like castillo and cotto. fighters with a good punch who stocked and tried to get inside through his defense. same with de la hoya when he did his best during the fight. floyd has problems with fighters who can get close enough to penetrate his defense and get him on the ropes. pac doesnt and has never fought like that. he has more of an in and out style which is perfect for floyd. that is a counter punchers dream. i know that mosley and chop chop has rocked mayweather but that isnt a huge deal because that was 2 times in his career which is pretty good. he can get caught but he recovers well and stays composed. judah did well but the reason why floyd took over is because he started countering him coming in and then started to dictate the pace. and let me just remind you that although he might have gotten hurt in those fights, he still won them all handily.

so 3 years ago, there is a chance that pac hurts him once during the fight, but floyd would recover and fight on to win easily. now, i think the chances are the same except for the fact that mayweather would be more careful now and pac would be more passive.

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  kbyte on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:06 am

Pac doesn't have the one thing that has made Floyd look really vulnerable in the past-a good heavy jab. Oscar when he bothered to use it did great against Floyd so when Cotto, who has that same heavy jab like Oscar had so much success with it it wasn't surprising. He was busting Floyd up with the jab at times.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  Frank on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:34 am

I don't mind getting in the old debate for one last time.

I will say this; Man's ability to refuse to admit the obvious has always and will always baffle me. Here's the way the fucking thing went down between Pac and Floyd.

(a) Floyd is offered a great deal of money to fight Pac.

(b) He sees a lean, mean, violent, killing machine who has damn nearly killed every WW he's ever fought (up until recently).

(c) Floyd decides he's scared to fight Pacquiao because he'll get his ass kicked in cruel and unusual ways and backs down from the fucking fight. Shocked

(d) What the hell is so hard to understand about that?? Man's ability to create alternate realities is amazing to watch and this scenario is one of the best examples of it.

(e) End of fucking story. The above is the way I'll tell the tale to future generations of sports fans. It'll be the way most of the "Boxing Press" will tell the tale. Mad

(NOTE: This is my opinion. Just because I say it's so, doesn't mean I think it's unequivocally so. A hundred people can disagree with me and they can be right. However, I feel really strongly about this one. LOL)

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  koolkc107 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:32 am

Frank wrote:I don't mind getting in the old debate for one last time.

I will say this; Man's ability to refuse to admit the obvious has always and will always baffle me. Here's the way the fucking thing went down between Pac and Floyd.

(a) Floyd is offered a great deal of money to fight Pac.

(b) He sees a lean, mean, violent, killing machine who has damn nearly killed every WW he's ever fought (up until recently).

(c) Floyd decides he's scared to fight Pacquiao because he'll get his ass kicked in cruel and unusual ways and backs down from the fucking fight. Shocked

(d) What the hell is so hard to understand about that?? Man's ability to create alternate realities is amazing to watch and this scenario is one of the best examples of it.

(e) End of fucking story. The above is the way I'll tell the tale to future generations of sports fans. It'll be the way most of the "Boxing Press" will tell the tale. Mad

(NOTE: This is my opinion. Just because I say it's so, doesn't mean I think it's unequivocally so. A hundred people can disagree with me and they can be right. However, I feel really strongly about this one. LOL)

The thing that stops your argument dead in it's tracks, Frank, is that Pac was offered that same boatload of money.

And all he had to do to get it is agree to get about a teaspoon of blood drawn at random intervals before the fight.

Had he agreed back in 2009, and then had Mayweather found another excuse, then no one would doubt who was avoiding the fight and who wasn't.

But it took until Aug of 2011 for Pac's camp to even acknowledge that maybe it was time for this in boxing.

You tell me which is more indicative of fear, which is more nonsensical?

One of the greatest defensive boxers the game has ever seen being scared of a fighter with average skills at best?

Or an extensively tattooed man issuing a public statement that drawing small amounts of blood weakens him?
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  koolkc107 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:37 am

Dmar, Capn,

Point taken.

I will endeavour to be more judicious in my choice of words in the future. To borrow a recent well known phrase from the newspapers, what I said was "not elegantly stated".

Sometimes, my passion for the sport makes me temporarily forget that others love it just as much or even more than I do, and that it is this love that makes us more brethren than adversaries.

If you men are fools, then certainly, I am too.

Please accept my apology if it not too late for such.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  Frank on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:45 am

koolkc107 wrote:Dmar, Capn,

Point taken.

I will endeavour to be more judicious in my choice of words in the future. To borrow a recent well known phrase from the newspapers, what I said was "not elegantly stated".

Sometimes, my passion for the sport makes me temporarily forget that others love it just as much or even more than I do, and that it is this love that makes us more brethren than adversaries.

If you men are fools, then certainly, I am too.

Please accept my apology if it not too late for such.
Stated like a true gentleman. Kool, you should go out and try to bring more guys like you in here.

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  koolkc107 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:57 am

Frank wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:Dmar, Capn,

Point taken.

I will endeavour to be more judicious in my choice of words in the future. To borrow a recent well known phrase from the newspapers, what I said was "not elegantly stated".

Sometimes, my passion for the sport makes me temporarily forget that others love it just as much or even more than I do, and that it is this love that makes us more brethren than adversaries.

If you men are fools, then certainly, I am too.

Please accept my apology if it not too late for such.
Stated like a true gentleman. Kool, you should go out and try to bring more guys like you in here.

Thanks, Frank.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  dmar5143 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:10 am

thanks kool for a understanding reply.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  koolkc107 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:28 am

dmar5143 wrote:thanks kool for a understanding reply.

And I thank you for understanding.
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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  captainanddew on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:18 pm

elegantly stated. Mr. Romney is one of the worst politicans I can recall. Former house republican, Joe Scarborough (Morning Joe on msnbc), likes to use the term political athletes. Ronald Reagan-a political athlete. Bill Clinton a political athlete. Mitt Romney-Not a political athlete.

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Re: What happens when Manny fights Floyd?

Post  Soonermark890 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:37 pm

koolkc107 wrote:Dmar, Capn,

Point taken.

I will endeavour to be more judicious in my choice of words in the future. To borrow a recent well known phrase from the newspapers, what I said was "not elegantly stated".

Sometimes, my passion for the sport makes me temporarily forget that others love it just as much or even more than I do, and that it is this love that makes us more brethren than adversaries.

If you men are fools, then certainly, I am too.

Please accept my apology if it not too late for such.
Ok that was funny as hell.

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