Manny agreed to 55-45 split

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  powerpuncher on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:34 am

i never thought that pac had a chance. pac just cant deal with speed and counter punching which is exactly what mayweather does. pac looks great against slower fighters who he can hit which make them start to fade. just like most of fighters floyd has fought, pac would start being very hesitant coming in after 2 or 3 rounds because he would keep getting countered. floyd would have never gotten on the inside with pac and would have fought the whole fight on the outside making pac come to him.

now, i think the outcome would be about the same except i think that floyd doesnt TKO him like i thought he would before. pac doesnt fight as aggressive anymore and he wouldnt be flying in like he used to. just like in the 3rd JMM fight, he couldnt really get on the inside and JMM kept him there. thats what floyd would do and pac would just stay out there and lose a UD.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  captainanddew on Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:51 am

Floyd has a damn good eye for choosing opponents.

If Floyd took the fight earlier he would have had a dangerous and dynamic fighter in front of him.

Now he will have a much less dangerous and dynamic fighter in front of him.


The most shocking thing about Mayweather vs Cotto. And no, Floyd wasn't trying to make it more entertaining. The most shocking thing was the thought in Floyd's head that maybe he was wrong when studying Cotto. Floyd thought Cotto was done. Floyd doesn't normally make mistakes in sizing up and choosing potential opponents.

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 am

boxinglawyer wrote:
koolkc107[b] wrote:I understand he also agreed to any kind of testing Floyd wants[/b]. I hope this is all is true, and not just some more Arum/Pac spin to make it seem like they want the fight when in truth they have been just as guilty as Floyd in avoiding it.

Let's all thumbs up Manny for only taking two years and 9 months to make up his mind...

Manny agreed to testing 2 years ago with ONE condition. He wanted a cut-off for testing of 3 weeks before the fight. Floyd said no cut-off, then relented and said 2-weeks. Pac agreed again and Floyd balked a third time. Testing is a red herring they have been throwing out. Pac agreed to it almost immediately.

Er, ahm...ahem...RANDOM TESTING HAS NO CUT-OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:18 am

boxinglawyer wrote: oops. Just read the whole thread. DMAR beat me to this. sorry.

Yes, and if you read the whole thread you'd know Dmar and I dont disagree much on the big picture.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:22 am

It always amazes me how folks can watch JMM give Pac hell 3 times, then wonder if a bigger, faster, more athletic, stronger chinned, way more technically sound, undefeated Mayweather could actually stay in with Manny. All I can say is this...

ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:29 am

The numbers:

Money vs. DLH 2,400,000
Money vs. Hatton 920,000
Money vs.JMM 1,050,000
Money vs. Mosley 1,400,000
Money vs. Ortiz 1,250,000
Money vs. Cotto 1,500,000

Total 8,520,000
Average 1,420,000


Pac vs. DLH 1,250,000
Pac vs. Hatton 850,000
Pac vs. Cotto 1,250,000
Pac vs. Clottey 700,000
Pac vs, Cheato 1,150,000
Pac vs. Mosley 1,340,000
Pac vs. JMM 1,450,000
Pac vs. Bradley 700,000

Total 8,690,000
Average 1,086,250

Based on these, Pac averages about 24% less buys than Money. The actual split, based on these numbers (assuming this is the only measure, which it should not be) should be about 57% Mayweather and 43% Pacquiao
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  captainanddew on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:59 am

koolkc107 wrote:The numbers:

Money vs. DLH 2,400,000
Money vs. Hatton 920,000
Money vs.JMM 1,050,000
Money vs. Mosley 1,400,000
Money vs. Ortiz 1,250,000
Money vs. Cotto 1,500,000

Total 8,520,000
Average 1,420,000


Pac vs. DLH 1,250,000
Pac vs. Hatton 850,000
Pac vs. Cotto 1,250,000
Pac vs. Clottey 700,000
Pac vs, Cheato 1,150,000
Pac vs. Mosley 1,340,000
Pac vs. JMM 1,450,000
Pac vs. Bradley 700,000

Total 8,690,000
Average 1,086,250

Based on these, Pac averages about 24% less buys than Money. The actual split, based on these numbers (assuming this is the only measure, which it should not be) should be about 57% Mayweather and 43% Pacquiao

the buys for odh vs mayweather have more to do with De La Hoya than Mayweather. ODH was still the ultimate cash cow. Mayweather didn't create the difference in buys between ODH/Mayweather and ODH/Pac. The difference in buys (which creates most of the difference in average buys) is the fact that ODH's star was on the wane and it was seen as a mismatch.


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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  dmar5143 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:01 pm

true captain plus both the clottey fight and bradley fight all reports said over 800 000.both thoses fights had no appear in general.so 55-45 is fair or hey lets just not make the fight.lets give floyd 60 percent.60 percent of zero is what.i think all of us by now should be sick of this talk about this fight.its too the point im hoping it never goes down.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:34 pm

Dmar and Capn': Sorry fellas but that dog dont hunt.

You can't say 2,400,000 buys have more to do with DLH than Money. And I'll tell you why.

Oscar's 3 PPVs prior to Floyd were as follows:

DLH vs. Vargas 935,000
DLH vs. Mosley(II) 950,000
DLH vs. Mayorga 925,000

His highest PPV prior to Floyd? 1,400,000 vs. Trinidad. Frankly, I am disappointed in both of you. It is usually neophytes and PacHuggers who roll out that weak excuse about DLH being the big draw.

He wasn't.

At least, you cannot attribute all or even most of 2,400,000 to Oscar.

And FYI, Dmar, 700,000 is the number most use for the Clottey and Bradley fights. But even if you are right, 800,000 is weak considering the circumstances and timing of both fights.

Capn, I will concede that Pac's lower numbers vs DLH is due to the fact that he fought a much poorer version; hell, Oscar admits he was washed up for Floyd so we know what he was almost two years later fighting at a weight he hadn't seen in almost a decade.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  UBeeg9cats on Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:21 pm

koolkc107 wrote:Dmar and Capn': Sorry fellas but that dog dont hunt.

You can't say 2,400,000 buys have more to do with DLH than Money. And I'll tell you why.

Oscar's 3 PPVs prior to Floyd were as follows:

DLH vs. Vargas 935,000
DLH vs. Mosley(II) 950,000
DLH vs. Mayorga 925,000

His highest PPV prior to Floyd? 1,400,000 vs. Trinidad. Frankly, I am disappointed in both of you. It is usually neophytes and PacHuggers who roll out that weak excuse about DLH being the big draw.

He wasn't.

At least, you cannot attribute all or even most of 2,400,000 to Oscar.

And FYI, Dmar, 700,000 is the number most use for the Clottey and Bradley fights. But even if you are right, 800,000 is weak considering the circumstances and timing of both fights.

Capn, I will concede that Pac's lower numbers vs DLH is due to the fact that he fought a much poorer version; hell, Oscar admits he was washed up for Floyd so we know what he was almost two years later fighting at a weight he hadn't seen in almost a decade.

Most people have the Bradley fight at 900,000 but I agree about the Clottey fight. Also, the difference in the promotion and media buildup between the 2 Oscar fights significantly affected the totals. I personally feel the closest is measuring the common opponents after ODLH. This favors Floyd. I cannot argue with someone including the Oscar fights because it also makes sense. I just feel the outlier total of the Oscar-Floyd fight really hides the statistical truth.

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  captainanddew on Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:43 pm

Hey Kool.

What were Floyd's PPVs prior to ODH???

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:36 pm

captainanddew wrote:Hey Kool.

What were Floyd's PPVs prior to ODH???

Typical...

Someone floats the DLH star power myth.

I trample it.

Then right on schedule, out comes the strawman.

What Floyd's PPVs were is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that DLH's alleged star power only topped a million when he entered the ring with a star as bright or brighter than himself. Tito was such a star; Vargas wasn't even with the alleged bad blood between he and Oscar, Mayorga wasn't with all his craziness, even Mosley wasn't though he had beat Oscar before.

Floyd obviously was.

The buys were two and a half times better than what DLH had done in 3 prior fights with supposedly huge names and all sorts of back stories involved in those fights. No one with any common sense after thinking about these facts can conclude it was all or mostly Oscar.

Two stars were responsible for that record buy rate, not one.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  powerpuncher on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:45 am

like ubeecats said, just look at their numbers with their same opponents. floyd has out sold pac 4 out of the 5. so i think a 55-45 split is good. 60-40 might be taking it a bit far so i like the 55-45 split because its what both should be getting.

i agree with kool though about the de la hoya PPV. i agree that oscar was the cash cow of boxing but that fight totally out sold them all. so it obviously wasnt all de la hoya. mayweather had a lot to do with that because if i remember correctly, mayweather at that time was considered the #1 p4p fighter.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  captainanddew on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:23 pm

koolkc107 wrote:
captainanddew wrote:Hey Kool.

What were Floyd's PPVs prior to ODH???

Typical...

Someone floats the DLH star power myth.

I trample it.

Then right on schedule, out comes the strawman.

What Floyd's PPVs were is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that DLH's alleged star power only topped a million when he entered the ring with a star as bright or brighter than himself. Tito was such a star; Vargas wasn't even with the alleged bad blood between he and Oscar, Mayorga wasn't with all his craziness, even Mosley wasn't though he had beat Oscar before.

Floyd obviously was.

The buys were two and a half times better than what DLH had done in 3 prior fights with supposedly huge names and all sorts of back stories involved in those fights. No one with any common sense after thinking about these facts can conclude it was all or mostly Oscar.

Two stars were responsible for that record buy rate, not one.

Kool. No offense but if you want to talk about a subject you can answer questions. I didn't try to pull up a strawman. I just asked a question.

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  Soonermark890 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:54 pm

koolkc107 wrote:It always amazes me how folks can watch JMM give Pac hell 3 times, then wonder if a bigger, faster, more athletic, stronger chinned, way more technically sound, undefeated Mayweather could actually stay in with Manny. All I can say is this...

ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!!
First off Mayweather and JMM are two different fighters. Second the bold is a lie. I have seen him rob someone to keep that 0.

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:07 pm

Soonermark890 wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:It always amazes me how folks can watch JMM give Pac hell 3 times, then wonder if a bigger, faster, more athletic, stronger chinned, way more technically sound, undefeated Mayweather could actually stay in with Manny. All I can say is this...

ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!!
First off Mayweather and JMM are two different fighters. Second the bold is a lie. I have seen him rob someone to keep that 0.

Yeah, they are two different fighters...and as excellent as JMM is, Floyd is on another level entirely. As far as Mayweather losing, there are those who say he should have lost this fight or that fight and I guess it makes for nice arguments. The closest fight Floyd ever had, the one folks like to point to as some kind of loss (the first Castillo fight) he clearly won IMO. But regardless of my opinion it is a W on his record...and I treat it that way.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  Soonermark890 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm

koolkc107 wrote:
Soonermark890 wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:It always amazes me how folks can watch JMM give Pac hell 3 times, then wonder if a bigger, faster, more athletic, stronger chinned, way more technically sound, undefeated Mayweather could actually stay in with Manny. All I can say is this...

ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!!
First off Mayweather and JMM are two different fighters. Second the bold is a lie. I have seen him rob someone to keep that 0.

Yeah, they are two different fighters...and as excellent as JMM is, Floyd is on another level entirely. As far as Mayweather losing, there are those who say he should have lost this fight or that fight and I guess it makes for nice arguments. The closest fight Floyd ever had, the one folks like to point to as some kind of loss (the first Castillo fight) he clearly won IMO. But regardless of my opinion it is a W on his record...and I treat it that way.
You need to rewatch that fight. I was a Floyd fan back then and I thought he lost that night as do most experts and fans. There is no way anyone can watch that fight and think he "clearly" won.

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:21 pm

captainanddew wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:
captainanddew wrote:Hey Kool.

What were Floyd's PPVs prior to ODH???

Typical...

Someone floats the DLH star power myth.

I trample it.

Then right on schedule, out comes the strawman.

What Floyd's PPVs were is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that DLH's alleged star power only topped a million when he entered the ring with a star as bright or brighter than himself. Tito was such a star; Vargas wasn't even with the alleged bad blood between he and Oscar, Mayorga wasn't with all his craziness, even Mosley wasn't though he had beat Oscar before.

Floyd obviously was.

The buys were two and a half times better than what DLH had done in 3 prior fights with supposedly huge names and all sorts of back stories involved in those fights. No one with any common sense after thinking about these facts can conclude it was all or mostly Oscar.

Two stars were responsible for that record buy rate, not one.

Kool. No offense but if you want to talk about a subject you can answer questions. I didn't try to pull up a strawman. I just asked a question.

But I did answer the question. The subject, brought up by you and Dmar, was about how much DLH impacted his fight with Floyd. It was your contention that it was mostly DLH responsible for almost 2.5 million buys, this when the 3 fights prior he couldn't crack a million. It was Oscar versus this specific opponent that pushed buys into the stratosphere.

It would be just as preposterous to say that Money was mostly responsible for all of the buys.

It was the two that made it happen.

That is why folks rightly used to speculate a Mayweather-Pac tilt could do 3 million buys easily, this when both guys totalled average well under that.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  koolkc107 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:23 pm

Soonermark890 wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:
Soonermark890 wrote:
koolkc107 wrote:It always amazes me how folks can watch JMM give Pac hell 3 times, then wonder if a bigger, faster, more athletic, stronger chinned, way more technically sound, undefeated Mayweather could actually stay in with Manny. All I can say is this...

ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!!
First off Mayweather and JMM are two different fighters. Second the bold is a lie. I have seen him rob someone to keep that 0.

Yeah, they are two different fighters...and as excellent as JMM is, Floyd is on another level entirely. As far as Mayweather losing, there are those who say he should have lost this fight or that fight and I guess it makes for nice arguments. The closest fight Floyd ever had, the one folks like to point to as some kind of loss (the first Castillo fight) he clearly won IMO. But regardless of my opinion it is a W on his record...and I treat it that way.
You need to rewatch that fight. I was a Floyd fan back then and I thought he lost that night as do most experts and fans. There is no way anyone can watch that fight and think he "clearly" won.

Watched it several times.

If I get time one day, I'd be glad to take you thru it round by round. Floyd clearly won the fight.

And yes, I'd love to see the list of your experts.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  UBeeg9cats on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:45 pm

Haven't watched Castillo-Mayweather 1 but I have never heard anything close to a consensus either way. A quick boxrec check only shows 3 unofficial scorecards for the fight with 1 for Floyd, 1 for Castillo, and one draw.

Sorry but I dove into the Pac-JMM fights on boxrec and found how close those fights were thought to be. Remarkably, Pac-JMM 2 had 32 for JMM, 32 for Pac and 9 draw. The 3rd was 57 JMM, 51 Pac, and 36 draw. Throw in the official judges on the 2 and you have 90 cards for JMM and 87 cards for Pac in those 2 fights.

54 pts separated them in the 3rd or 47 with official thrown in. 5 pts separate on unofficial in 2nd with 4 pts being different including the official cards. Putting even more statistical analysis means JMM "won" the 3rd fight by an average of .3197 rounds on the cumulative scorecard while winning 51.82% of the non-draw cards. JMM "won" the 2nd fight by an even slimmer margin. His average win is .0526 rounds or to make it a time score, he won 9.47 seconds more than Pac. This is balanced with Pac winning 50.75% of the non-draw cards. Now that I have satisfied my stat geek side, I am actually interested if someone can get separation in the 4th fight.

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  powerpuncher on Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:37 am

UBeeg9cats wrote:Haven't watched Castillo-Mayweather 1 but I have never heard anything close to a consensus either way. A quick boxrec check only shows 3 unofficial scorecards for the fight with 1 for Floyd, 1 for Castillo, and one draw.

Sorry but I dove into the Pac-JMM fights on boxrec and found how close those fights were thought to be. Remarkably, Pac-JMM 2 had 32 for JMM, 32 for Pac and 9 draw. The 3rd was 57 JMM, 51 Pac, and 36 draw. Throw in the official judges on the 2 and you have 90 cards for JMM and 87 cards for Pac in those 2 fights.

54 pts separated them in the 3rd or 47 with official thrown in. 5 pts separate on unofficial in 2nd with 4 pts being different including the official cards. Putting even more statistical analysis means JMM "won" the 3rd fight by an average of .3197 rounds on the cumulative scorecard while winning 51.82% of the non-draw cards. JMM "won" the 2nd fight by an even slimmer margin. His average win is .0526 rounds or to make it a time score, he won 9.47 seconds more than Pac. This is balanced with Pac winning 50.75% of the non-draw cards. Now that I have satisfied my stat geek side, I am actually interested if someone can get separation in the 4th fight.
wow! did you pull those numbers from somewhere or did you actually do the math yourself? haha. you are a nerd. i knew it!
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  UBeeg9cats on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:02 pm

powerpuncher wrote:
UBeeg9cats wrote:Haven't watched Castillo-Mayweather 1 but I have never heard anything close to a consensus either way. A quick boxrec check only shows 3 unofficial scorecards for the fight with 1 for Floyd, 1 for Castillo, and one draw.

Sorry but I dove into the Pac-JMM fights on boxrec and found how close those fights were thought to be. Remarkably, Pac-JMM 2 had 32 for JMM, 32 for Pac and 9 draw. The 3rd was 57 JMM, 51 Pac, and 36 draw. Throw in the official judges on the 2 and you have 90 cards for JMM and 87 cards for Pac in those 2 fights.

54 pts separated them in the 3rd or 47 with official thrown in. 5 pts separate on unofficial in 2nd with 4 pts being different including the official cards. Putting even more statistical analysis means JMM "won" the 3rd fight by an average of .3197 rounds on the cumulative scorecard while winning 51.82% of the non-draw cards. JMM "won" the 2nd fight by an even slimmer margin. His average win is .0526 rounds or to make it a time score, he won 9.47 seconds more than Pac. This is balanced with Pac winning 50.75% of the non-draw cards. Now that I have satisfied my stat geek side, I am actually interested if someone can get separation in the 4th fight.
wow! did you pull those numbers from somewhere or did you actually do the math yourself? haha. you are a nerd. i knew it!

I pulled the bold from boxrec but then had to do the math on all the cards listed. Yes, I love numbers. That's why I'm not against the BCS in college American football. It explains reasons more clearly than most sports. I even have a half-written article for this place that made a formula based on Ring rankings, boxrec rankings, and sanctioning body rankings to emulate the BCS. You caught me Laughing

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  Soonermark890 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:30 pm

BTW this topic is very far from the original topic.

SO how likely do you guys think the fight will happen?

1. Defamation suit is done
2. Drug testing is done
3. Money issue is done.

What else could there be?

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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  powerpuncher on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:35 am

Soonermark890 wrote:BTW this topic is very far from the original topic.

SO how likely do you guys think the fight will happen?

1. Defamation suit is done
2. Drug testing is done
3. Money issue is done.

What else could there be?
at this point, they might just do it because the money is still there and both are getting to the end of their careers and just want a few more paydays.
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Re: Manny agreed to 55-45 split

Post  dmar5143 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:14 am

it will be done.one guy will make over 50 million the other 40 or more.if the fights close and good a rematch may be done.they need no other paydays after getting sinfull money like this.the only thing that stops it is if pac gets beat bad by marquez.if after all of this no fight then we can say thoses two are amoung the most stupid folks on earth.
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