My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

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My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  powerpuncher on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:43 am

i feel like i hate on chavez a lot so i decided to say what i really think about him in this post.

i compare him to margarito. i remember back in the day (before we found out he was cheating) when so many people said that margarito was a really good fighter. i never thought he was. to me, he had a great chin, a good punch, and good stamina. other than that, he was very predictable. he was super slow and plodded forward at fighters without using angles. thats why against even an aging mosley, he couldnt do anything. i was actually one of the few people that agreed with floyd when he said margarito didnt deserve a shot at him because he wasnt even that good.

chavez is kind of the same thing to me. he has a good chin, a good punch (because he is so much bigger than his opponents) and he has heart. he has attributes to make him a solid fighter but he doesnt have other attributes that make him special in any sense. he is slow, he just walks forward without much of a jab or anything, and his stamina isnt great (maybe from cutting so much weight).

like margo, he can beat these 2nd tier fighters pretty handily. chavez is definitely a top middleweight but not the top middleweight, nor do i think he will ever be the best in any weight class he is in. chavez has to move up soon and i think that he will greatly fall in rankings once he has to fight people more his size. his power will greatly diminish and his chin may not hold up as it is now against smaller fighters. if chavez fought froch, i think that he would meet his match. somebody who has an ironed chin and hits very hard and knows when to box and when to mix it up. same with kessler. maybe even bute (if his chin can hold up).

again, i dont think that chavez is a bad fighter. he is a top fighter in his weight class and will always be a top 10 (probably even top 5) in his weight class during his prime, but i just dont see anything that special about him to make me think he will ever amount to greatness.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  dmar5143 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:02 am

PP i agree.forget greatness theres nothing there to show hes a very good fighter.hes ordinary..several of us from my generation have seen that movie many times over.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  UBeeg9cats on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:35 pm

As you say you needed to clarify, I probably need to a little bit as well. I have defended him because I think he is underrated by many but I don't think he is a special talent either. He is a classic Mexican fighter that can cut tremendously well. I agree he is one of the top middleweights but I won't go as far to say he cannot beat Sergio. It is very unlikely that Sergio fights the same way if they do fight again. At 168, he cannot touch the top fighters. Ward, Froch, Kessler, and Dirrell all beat him badly. Bute also beats him unless he is completely messed up from losing to Froch. I think he fits in nicely with the Abraham, Stieglitz, Bika, and Pavlik tier. In that way, he might be able to grab a trinket at 168. However, he won't stay at 168 long and would need to avoid all real fights.

I completely agree with the Margarito assessment. Heart and chin combined with solid workrate and power makes a fighter scary to boxers who can't box or aren't conditioned. As long as you avoid falling into the trap of thinking Jr is just there because of his name and treat him like a real fighter, he is there to be beaten and badly too.

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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  dmar5143 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:42 pm

ubeg.good post.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  Soonermark890 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:53 pm

I wonder if his power will diminish. A lot of fighters who cut weight like him actually gain a lot of power when they move up. Cutting that much weight takes a lot out of you. So really you never know but the Margo comparison is spot on. Which is not a bad thing. It means you will be a crowd favorite and you should get a lot of paydays.

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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  hillsicc303 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:15 am

Margarito was better than Bum Jr. Margarito had subtle skills(good feet, underrated defense, slick inside fighter) that Bum Jr will never have. And Margo actually fought and beat good fighters, Bum Jr was just blown away by the first legit guy he's fought.

Jr is nothing more than a product of the HBO hype machine, Bob Arum, and good match making. How in the hell do you go 47 fights before you fight your first real guy? Margo came up the hard way in boxing, not the 'Silver Spoon' way Bum Jr has come up in the sport. If his name wasn't Julio Ceasar Chavez Jr, he would have been thrown to the wolves a long time ago, and would have already suffered multiple losses.

I'm curious to see what route he takes now: Will he get back on the bum of the month circuit for the next couple of years, or will he actually take more dangerous fights?

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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  powerpuncher on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:25 am

hillsicc303 wrote:Margarito was better than Bum Jr. Margarito had subtle skills(good feet, underrated defense, slick inside fighter) that Bum Jr will never have. And Margo actually fought and beat good fighters, Bum Jr was just blown away by the first legit guy he's fought.

Jr is nothing more than a product of the HBO hype machine, Bob Arum, and good match making. How in the hell do you go 47 fights before you fight your first real guy? Margo came up the hard way in boxing, not the 'Silver Spoon' way Bum Jr has come up in the sport. If his name wasn't Julio Ceasar Chavez Jr, he would have been thrown to the wolves a long time ago, and would have already suffered multiple losses.

I'm curious to see what route he takes now: Will he get back on the bum of the month circuit for the next couple of years, or will he actually take more dangerous fights?
i guess for me its that i felt that margarito was way overrated and didnt really beat anybody that good except for cotto (a fight in which we are 99% sure he had loaded gloves). other than that, who was his best win? either cintron or clottey and clottey probably would have won if it werent for a broken hand (if i remember correctly) early in the fight.

this version of sergio would have probably done the same thing to margo. so i guess that im comparing the 2 because i dont think that highly of margo while you at least think semi highly of him.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  powerpuncher on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:27 am

Soonermark890 wrote:I wonder if his power will diminish. A lot of fighters who cut weight like him actually gain a lot of power when they move up. Cutting that much weight takes a lot out of you. So really you never know but the Margo comparison is spot on. Which is not a bad thing. It means you will be a crowd favorite and you should get a lot of paydays.
he could keep his power but the thing that makes me think that he wont is the fact that his punches are considered "heavy" and not "hard." when you have heavy punches, it means that there is just a lot of weight on them rather than good solid technique. so i believe that when he moves up in weight, his punches wont feel that heavy.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  hillsicc303 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:32 am

i guess for me its that i felt that margarito was way overrated and didnt really beat anybody that good except for cotto (a fight in which we are 99% sure he had loaded gloves). other than that, who was his best win? either cintron or clottey and clottey probably would have won if it werent for a broken hand (if i remember correctly) early in the fight.

this version of sergio would have probably done the same thing to margo. so i guess that im comparing the 2 because i dont think that highly of margo while you at least think semi highly of him.

I don't think semi-highly of Margo, I was just saying that he was flat out better than Bum Jr could ever be. Margo beat fighters like Cotto, Clottey, Sergio, Andrew Lewis, Cintron(when he was decent). He also fought and lost to guys like Manny, Shame, and PW(when he was good).

Who is Bum Jr's best win? Who has he even fought that compares to the guys that Margo has fought? IMO, it's a terrible comparison. One guy, though not nearly the best, came up fighting any and everybody...another who has fought NOBODY up until this past Saturday...

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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  flapanther2001 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:24 am

My thoughts on Chavez Jr are simple. If it walks & quacks like a duck........
He was brought along as slowly as any fighter that's ever worn a belt, fighting fringe contenders. Any & all that thought his level of competition warranted him being a "Champion", fall into the Roger Mayweather school of boxing for fans category. If you subtract the final half of the final round of his fight with Sergio, we don't even have this conversation. How so many people can use that last round as an excuse for a rematch is beyond me. There are some sons of fighters this past 2 years that have made names for themselves, some good, some bad. Greatness does not beget greatness. For Jr's team to accomplish what they did with him & his limited ability was genius. They pulled the wool over a lot of eyes. PED's, DUI's, not making weight, etc. All bad qualities in a professional fighter, yet Jr pulled it off, was handed a belt that was stolen from his last opponent and was considered a champion. Rubbish, I say. As he moves up in weight, the truth will be revealed. His power will diminish & his chin will be checked. I've already seen enough of Julio's kid...enough.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  dmar5143 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:09 pm

good post panther and its truth not hate.several folks at ringside estimates jrs weight fight time to be 185 since he refused to get on the scale.he has gotton on in the past and was 180 a few fights that he did that.folks draw your own conclutions.sergio gave jr lots of credit and praise..junior said nothing like that even though he was more then dominated by a guy pushing 38that he outweighed by 20 pounds
im the last guy to say someones too big.that applies to some that say a guys 5 pounds heavier because lol hes fighting a bigger guy moving up in class by a whole 3 pounds..this is not the case.20 pounds in a middleweight fight is too big.
if i was sergios people id say you want a rematch.ok.we want to fight a real middleweight so same day weight inns at noon or 1 pm and just before you entire the ring you get on a offical scale and cant weigh more then 169..there will be no rematch because dispite the fact martinez will then be 38 years old the playing field is leveled a bit.


Last edited by dmar5143 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  flapanther2001 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:44 pm

dmar5143 wrote:good post panther and its truth not hate.several folks at ringside estimates jrs weight fight time to be 195 since he refused to get on the scale.he has gotton on in the past and was 180 a few fights that he did that.folks draw your own conclutions.sergio gave jr lots of credit and praise..junior said nothing like that even though he was more then dominated by a guy pushing 38that he outweighed by 20 pounds
im the last guy to say someones too big.that applies to some that say a guys 5 pounds heavier because lol hes fighting a bigger guy moving up in class by a whole 3 pounds..this is not the case.20 pounds in a middleweight fight is too big.
if i was sergios people id say you want a rematch.ok.we want to fight a real middleweight so same day weight inns at noon or 1 pm and just before you entire the ring you get on a offical scale and cant weigh more then 169..there will be no rematch because dispite the fact martinez will then be 38 years old the playing field is leveled a bit.
Now, imagine Martinez not breaking his hand in the 4th....
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  Gumby on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:36 pm

Chavez Jr. has never been as good as Margo, and I hate Margo. Eventually the weight cuts will catch up with him and he'll go away. He's the poster boy of hyped fighters.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  Diego408 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:13 pm

Chavez Jr. is an aggressive come forward fighter that uses his size as an advantage. There's nothing special about him, but can be semi entertaining against the right opponent. He does drugs, drinks too much and has no disciplined. He does whatever he wants because he was raised as a rich spoiled brat. His daddy's name brings him fame and ratings. He doesn't take his boxing career seriously and if he did he still wouldn't be that good. That's the truth about him.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  koolkc107 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:41 pm

Let's get real. That last round was an example of what is great about boxing. A football team down 11 TDs cannot win a game in the last 5 minutes; a basketball team down 50 is not going to come back in the last 4 minutes of the fourth quarter; but in boxing, one punch can totally erase whatever came before.

I want to see a rematch.

I want to see it even if the next 12 rounds look just like the first 11.

Is Jr. gonna be an all-time great? I highly doubt it.

But he seems to fight in matches that are at least as entertaining as most big fights.

Until that changes, I will follow the kid, bong and all.
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Re: My Real Thoughts on Chavez Jr.

Post  Soonermark890 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:38 pm

koolkc107 wrote:Let's get real. That last round was an example of what is great about boxing. A football team down 11 TDs cannot win a game in the last 5 minutes; a basketball team down 50 is not going to come back in the last 4 minutes of the fourth quarter; but in boxing, one punch can totally erase whatever came before.

I want to see a rematch.

I want to see it even if the next 12 rounds look just like the first 11.

Is Jr. gonna be an all-time great? I highly doubt it.

But he seems to fight in matches that are at least as entertaining as most big fights.

Until that changes, I will follow the kid, bong and all.
+1

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